Twocubdad

" The vast majority of the reports are exported in a very ancient looking type of cobol layout - based upon the premise that the vast majority of the users are not technically savvy enough to manipulate the data (or they won't have the tools). " What? If users don't have the ability to manipulate the data doesn't that mean they SHOULDN'T export it in some ancient, dense format? But you're missing the point. I'm taking about the "UNIT TOOLS" on MyScouting which are purported to be used by the Average Joe unit Scouter. I'm two weeks out from recharter and all I want to know is who is an isn't trained to position, what they're missing and inparticular who needs youth protection. Maybe one day when someone is writing my obituary they'll want to know I took BALOO training in 2002, but for now, that's bit of information is just noise. The data you're dealing with as district membership chairman is a whole 'nother animal. Working on district membership goals is likely to garner a good bit more help from the DE than most folks can otherwise expec.

The "recent topics" button is missing. I had it set as my default home page, but I get and error message when it hit it. Looks like the whole site is down.

There is no official national date for the program year. It's what works for you and what you want to do. I think most folks will say they follow the school year with the summer being part of the next year. And even then you don't have to pick a hard date. As Sqyire says, if you have guys who need to continue working on last year's rank over the summer, fine. The hang up with the arrow points is another good reason not to hold up advancement until B&G. Are your Cubs attending day camp? They should. First, IT'S FUN! And most camps provide the local packs with info about what the boys did at camp and the DLs and CMs get to actually sign-off on the requirements. That adds the summer months to the program, including advancement. I always felt part of my responsibility as a pack leader was spreading out advancement and awards so the boys are always working on -- and receiving -- some sort of recognition. In the fall, that means sprinkling a few belt loops into the mix so the kid's names get called at the pack meeting. In the spring, ditto for arrow points. I think this whole B&G emphasis is an adult thing. Parents really like the hoop-la and pagentry. I think the kids prefer having the fun throughout the year. You don't really say who's driving all this, but you and the CM need to start selling the idea that beginning next fall you want to present awards as soon as they are earned. Maybe there are folks who have an investment in the big B&G hoopla who you need to bring along. SM = Scoutmaster (I don't know what SM I is). BoR = Board of Review which is last step of the advancement process for Boy Scouts. Boards of Review either mercilessly grill the Scout to the point of despair or simply rubber stamp their advancement, depending on who you ask.

Yeah, this is going to be a can of worms. The good ones will try to build a relationship with ALL their volunteers. They do this by working TOGETHER with you. If I can help my DE with something, I will and frequently do. Same goes for him. If I need help or advice and he can provide it, he will. But that doesn't change the fact that my primary job is to deliver a good program to the 60 boys in my troop. His job is to make sure the district is healthy, primarily from the standpoint of membership and finance. As to your recruitment booth idea. You can't expect that he will organize and man the booth himself. DEs like that are the guys who burn out and quit in their first year. On the other hand, he's a FOOL if he doesn't jump at the opportunity you've presented. At minimum -- very minimum -- he may pass the idea long to the district membership chairman, a volunteer position. If he's smart, he will work with you to pull the booth together. For example he could easily provide you with all sorts of poster, flyers and promotional materials -- maybe even a stash of old batches or gimmes you could hand out. Maybe he knows someone who has a contact at the location you want and can help you with the arrangements. Or maybe he can make a phone call to a couple neighboring units who would be interested in helping you with the booth. In the end, he's helping you get what you want, but he's also cultivating the relationship with you -- and a new volunteer for the district committee. If your booth generates a lot of new members, don't be surprised if you aren't invited to share what you did at Roundtable and possibly be asked to try and package the program for other unit.

"I want rustlers, cut throats, murders, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwackers, hornswogglers, horse theives, train robbers, bank robbers, and Methodists!" -- Hedy Lamar, um I mean Hedley Lamar

Just went through this recently with a couple dads in our troop who are NRA instructors and chatted with the chairman of the Council's shooting sports group (I don't know if they officially rise to the level of "committee" or if it's just a bunch of guys who get it done.) According to him, if you want to take a troop shooting or reserve the ranges at one of the Scout camps, you only need to present you NRA certification to the ranger. But knowing how things really work, I'd make a call to the council office and try to get the name of the the person who ramrods (ha! nice pun) the shooting sports program and make an introduction. Otherwise I can imagine showing up at camp unannounced with a bunch of kids and ammo may not go as smoothly as advertised. As far as the merit badges go, you need to complete the normal applications for any merit badges and clip a copy of your NRA paperwork to it. I was under the impression there is some sort of formal BSA recognization of NRA training; that you presented your NRA cards and were registered as a BSA shooting instructor. No, it's not that formal. You get BSA certification only when you complete the week-long national camping school shooting sports director course.

It will sure complicate the shower schedule: Male Youth Female Youth Gay Youth Lesbian Youth Straight Male Adults Straight Female Adults Gay Adults Lesbian Adults. Everyone gets 19 seconds in the shower. (Where are the little smilies on this new software)

I don't know that we need to apply workplace standards to Scouting, but I do agree with the personal respoonsibility element of Dean's approach. As I said earlier, it needs to be handled individually and you need to know the kids involved. And sorry, Krampus, but I disagree with you. If the brother didn't have the fortitude to say, "No, I don't like being called short." he either needs to find it or plan to spend the rest of his life being dumped on. Nothing builds self-esteem like taking control of and solving your own problems. I do agree that as a basic courtesy you learn folks names. I've posted before about the time three of the older 16- and 17-year-old scouts in the troop were assigning the new kids nicknames, ala Animal House ("From now on you're Pinto. From now on you're, uuuuh, Flounder.") I pulled the older guys off and told them they needed to learn the new boys' real names. "But this is fun. Everybody likes nicknames." " Well you should have told me that in the first place!," I told them. "If nicknames are such fun, you three need nick names too! You," I said to the big one, "are Lardass. You are D.F., you know, like on your report card. And from now on you are Dewey, but we'll spell it D.U.I. , 'cause, well, you know. Gee, you guys are right, this is a lot of fun! " That was the end of that.

Oh, I don't know. We've got another dad in the troop with my same last name. We've jokingly started calling each other "Fat Mr. Smith" and "Bald Mr. Smith."

Perhaps the parent's don't intend to aim their behavior at MDM, but that doesn't invalidate her feelings it is directed at her personally. People are going to have different outlooks on this, Base. Some folks are hard-wired to separate business, some aren't. If I didn't take the program personally, I wouldn't put the 20 hours a week into it I do. Someone tells me they don't think I focus on the Scouts, I'm going to take it personally, I don't care how business-like they intended it. I will allow, however, from MDM's description, these parents sound like self-centered jerks and probably treat everyone shabbily. Andt I agree with your comments about learning to move on and focusing on the boys who are there and want to participate. But that doesn't mean you don't feel badly for the boys who aren't.

Welcome to the campfire, MDM. Before I comment, you need to understand a few things about the group here. Number one, it isn't for wussies. The good, the bad and the ugly is posting problems here is much like filing a lawsuit against someone -- you pretty much have to expect the other folks are going to come at you full bore. You should expect folks to question your motives and operations. Much of that is because we're only hearing your side of the story, folks try to devine and/or assume the other half. Secondly, being a written, online forum, comments and questions come off as curt and rude when that wasn't the intent (well, yeah, some folks may intend it, but you'll figure out who they are soon enough.) Online you don't get the nuance and sympathetic body language you would face to face. So take stuff with a grain of salt. Take the advice you get here, process it and figure out what works for you. Number two, I think you are wise to accept you're personal investment in all this. We all put a lot of time into the program and it does hurt when folks criticize or drop out. Especially when the clod doing the criticizing never lifted a finger to help out. You seem to have a good handle on the program. You don't mention it, but I'm sure you understand that the Bear level the parent is Akela and if these parents purely pencil-whip every requirement for their son, you don't have much to say about it. Yeah, it sucks for the other kids who, by the way, clearly know the score and probably don't really care anyway. And we know the one who is really being cheated in all this is that kid, but that's the parent's issues. They can cheat their son if the like. The important thing here is your relationship with the Cubmaster. You two have to work together to deliver the program. Apparently, he's willing to cut these parents more slack than you are. Maybe it's because he has no backbone, but maybe because he knows something about this family you don't. He may know these folks have real issues and need a break or he may know they are true PIAs and this kid getting his Bear badge isn't a hill he's willing to die on. Talk to him. Buy him a cup of coffe and a piece of pie. (You'll also learn the folks on the forum REALLY like coffee and pie.) Building and maintaining a good working relationship with him/her is much more important than the outcome with these parents. Understand your role and it's limitations. If the CM decides to go appease the parents, that's his call. Let it go. I've had issues with Eagle Scout awards which have been appealed to the council. At that point, the decision was out of my hands. If the council wants to award the kid his Eagle, it was their call. I don't take their decision as a reflection or referendum on my program at all. I run the troop program, they run the council advancement committee. We look at things differently and make different decisons. Same between you and the CM. You've had your input, now he gets to handle the situation as he sees fit. To me it's a big statement that he would award the kid his Bear award separately from your presentation to the den. Take that and move on. A BIG PART OF THE CONVERSATION with the CM needs to be an understanding about the Webelos program. I'll assume here you plan to track along with the den as a Webelos leader. You may need to concede on the Bear badge, but you need to set clear expectations for next year. In Webelos parents DO NOT sign off requirements for their sons -- the DLs do that. And those sign-offs tend to come at den meetings and are frequently based on participation in varioius activities. In otherwords, mommy and daddy signing Dear Sweet Thang's book two weeks before Blue&Gold won't be an option. You need to set that expectation HARD. Frankly, if the family is this unhappy with your program, they need to move on. Currently, you are in a much better position to set the terms for how the Webelos den will be run and your expectations for participation. Do it. If you leave it unresolved, same time next year you'll be back in damage control mode with much fewer options. Good luck!

I think that approach is called "sensible" but again, I'm no expert. But it gets worse. After 12 years TwoCubMom has decided to register as a committee member. She's been helping on BoRs in a pinch and decided to get legal. She took YPT about a year ago (when she first started helping) and we need her YPT certificate to attach to her app, right? We spent a half hour alternately trying log on with her known password and/or trying to reset it. The system would not accept anything. PASSWORD ERROR but no explaination of what. I finally gave up and asked TwoCubSon to try. Twenty minutes later, same result. So the heck with it, she'll just help with BoRs unregistered and the troop will save $15. (Cue Ron Popiel) BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Trying to complete JTE. We've got numerous service projects totalling well over 3000 hours. But we've got a ZERO on JTE because we haven't log the hours on JTE/Good Turn for America. I log on MyScouting, find the JTE/GTA page only to learn I have to create ANOTHER log-on for that site. And on top of that, to do so I have to have my UNIT IDENTIFICATION NUMBER. Not the troop number, an ID number which I have never heard of. To get it I have to call the council. Now I'm logged onto MyScouting and have access to it. I have our charter in front of me. This stupid number is nowhere to be found. So guess what. The heck with them AGAIN. We're at gold level without the service hours. I get NO benefit from participating in this so why should I jump through these hoops?

Agreed, pack. Noodling around on the Internet trying to find objective info on this subject, I was surprised to learn that pedophilia is defined as a sexual attraction to those under age 16 and more than five years younger than the perpertrator. Do the math. Any sex with a 16 or 17 y.o. Scout wouldn't show up as pedophilia, past age 12, it's not considered pedophilia. That may be a valid definition for the purposes of diagnosis, but it certainly muddies any discussion of statistical analysis as it relates to Scout-aged youth. And personally I believe the APA has compromised it's own standing when it comes to social/political issues. I'll hold out that the actual research and standards remain valid, but they've done a really good job of creating the appearance of a conflict of interest. Anytime I read "According to the APA...." I am immediately skeptical. As to the Colorado study, Mike, aside from sampling bias, the first question I would have is what do they mean by "identifiably gay or lesbian"? There may be an accepted, scientific or APA means/definition, but for a whole lot of folks simply applying good ol' horse sense, gays would be identified as the men molesting boys and lesbians are the women molesting girls. That may be a semantic difference, but it is not uncommon for professionals in a field to apply specific meanings to terms which have a much broader understanding in the vernacular. Ever watched Beavah get all torqued up when some gets accused of "hazing"?

Good comparison, Base. But I fear half the troops around here will start wearing the neckerchiefs tucked in their belts.

Walk into to your next committee meeting (or where ever the JTE bean counters meet), collect all the score sheets and light them on fire. This is what is referred to as "effective communications."

I know the official position is we are to be great for the strides national has made to move ScoutNet into the 1980s. I will grant you that. Consider said any appropriate words of thanks and appreciatiion I should be saying here. But some of you IT guys please explain how you design a user interface which basically just dumps all the raw data at the user? Why would you not include a report which identifies those training modules which expire (which are mostly the critical health & safety stuff) and sorts them by expiration date? Why would a unit leader ever get into the training records exept to see who is and is not trained? The current reports only allow me the option of exporting PDF or comma-delineated files. So I can either print the PDF file then go through with a highlighter marking the people who need updated training, or dump the data into a spread sheet then spend the same time sorting data into usable columns so I can see what I need to. Seriously, I can understand that step one is getting the data available on line, but how do you not immediately come out with a report format usable to your users? I have no idea of what makes a database work or what is involved in writing a routine to create this report. I'm just a dumb carpenter. But this would be like me building a house and not providing light bulbs. Hey, we installed all these light fixture for you! What do want from me, the ability to see in the dark or something? /rant

Around here, most Woodbadgers were their beads all the time, usually without the necker. The neckerchiefs are usually for more formal occasions, although you'll see some folks with them all the time. Seems like the training committee types and other at-large members of the Ol' Boys Club tend to wear the neckers a lot. Our troop has it's own neckerchief which we consider part of the full troop uniform. I almost always wear the troop necker with beads. I'm part of the troop first, a Woodbadger second. Actually the only time I drag out the WB necker is teaching a national camp school where we consider WB regailia part of the staff uniform. So SSS is correct. You earned it, you paid for it, wear it as you please. There may be local tradition or expectations, but what are they going to do, cut your pay?

Does anyone have an idea/resource for building a durable fire pit? I have a couple guys working on eagle projects of outdoor gathering spots for church youth groups which include fire rings. The Scout who is furthest along proposed building a full-blown masonry fire ring using fire brick and mortar. I'm not convinced that's the best route and building something that looks good is probably beyond his skill level. Lowe's has a backyard fire ring made of concrete keystones with a steel keeper ring. It's over $200 and I promise you the concrete block will crack. The rings at our scout camps are what looks to be sections of 24" steel pipe. They work well, but I have no idea where to get it (neither does the ranger as they are as old as the camp and well before his time.) Since this is becoming a popular project, I'd like to be able to give the Scouts some better direction.

Does anyone have an idea/resource for building a durable fire pit? I have a couple guys working on eagle projects of outdoor gathering spots for church youth groups which include fire rings. The Scout who is furthest along proposed building a full-blown masonry fire ring using fire brick and mortar. I'm not convinced that's the best route and building something that looks good is probably beyond his skill level. Lowe's has a backyard fire ring made of concrete keystones with a steel keeper ring. It's over $200 and I promise you the concrete block will crack. The rings at our scout camps are what looks to be sections of 24" steel pipe. They work well, but I have no idea where to get it (neither does the ranger as they are as old as the camp and well before his time.) Since this is becoming a popular project, I'd like to be able to give the Scouts some better direction.

Do you work in a button factory?

I'd bet low. If our troop is any indication, probably >10%. While I agree not everyone has access to the electronics, making them available as a 99cent app would certainly increase circulation, if not profit.

Wonder what the budget for the merit badge program is? Supposedly, much of the editorial input is volunteer, of course there's the design and production cost. At $4.50 each, wonder how much is made off each merit badge book? And at $2.00, I wonder what th profit is on a merit badge? $1? 50 cents? It's an interesting question as there are just under 2 million merit badges earned every year, according to meritbadge.org. Rather puts an interesting light on high speed/low drag advancement policy.

Similar situation -- my nephew's pack all meets together for den meetings -- Tigers to Webelos -- all in the same room doing the same thing, just the different dens sitting together. The Cubmaster runs everything, the DL's just babysit their tables. What sort of program do you think that is for the older boys? Hint -- nephew never made it to Bear Remember when "Ages and Stages" was one of the very first training modules you took?

Foolish consistency...... Not surprisingly, the article 00E posted, from the national Commissioners' newsletter, suggests it should really be the Unit Key 4 and include the unit commissioner. Yeah, right. I can count on one hand he number of UC visits we've had in the past decade and still pick my nose. And they going to tell me the UC is part of the troop leadership team on a par with the SM and CC? Does anyone take this clap-trap seriously?

I suppose ruts are like holes. The first step in getting out of a hole is to quit digging. The first rule of getting out of a rut is to quit riding through it. OGE''s right. Figure out what works and what doesn't the plan your calendar accordingly. One of the hallmarks of a good leader is knowing when to shake up the organization. As far as the Boy Scout troop goes, play dumb. "Gosh, I would have never imagined the Boy Scouts would have wanted to participate in the Pinewood Derby. It never occurred to me we shouldn't have it the same weekend as your campout." "We're not comfortable with our younger boys going on the campout with the troop. The level of difficulty is too much for them, plus we want to give them something to look forward to when they're older. Have you spoken to the Webelos II den? The outing may be more appropriate for them." Be very careful with this, but I may have a very quiet conversation with the COR or unit commissioner regarding the troop's program. If the leaders are clingiing to the Cub Scout program and are losing boys after a couple of years because of it, the COR may want to nudge the program in a different direction. It would be interesting to know why the troop is doing this -- none of our business, but interesting. Do they think this is a good transition program? Were the programs developed for the convenience of leaders with boys in both the troop and pack? It strikes me as odd as the problem is more often with new troop leaders who think their new Scouts need to tackle Denali right off the bat. I'm not familiar with a troop clinging to the cub program like this.