Twocubdad

Years ago, the first time gas spiked to $4, there was a thread here about a unit that bought a fleet of gas guzzlin' SUVs (Suburbans, Expeditions, etc.) on the cheap. wOnly driving them once a month or so, gas economy wasn't a big deal, but the initial investment was relative low, insurance (especially compared to anything more than 14 passengers) wasn't crazy, normal drivers' license was good enough and one vehicle generally equaled on patrol. I didn't run the numbers myself, but it was an interesting idea.

The decision to fold the unit better be made by the largest group available. You don't want to dictate this unilaterally. It's only seven folks so it's not like you have to rent a hall for a parent's meeting. Of course, if they vote to remain, the folks so voting are your new unit leaders. And if they do continue, I think you need to stick with your original plan and step down as IH/COR. I only see trouble for you trying to manage a group like this.

No hard signatures? All electronic?

You're right. It's crazy.

I contend the best way to improve your troop's retention numbers is to require a six weeks attendance at troop meetings and two campouts before taking an application. Taking or submitting an application sight unseen is a bad idea for both the Scout and the unit. My expectation is joining a Scout troop is a commitment of up to seven years. As a parent, I'm placing my son with a group of people with the stated intent of their influencing his character. Who does that without checking the unit out? This is a technological solution in search of a problem. I think we all know what is driving this. (Hint: follow the money.) We won't be using it.

This is no different than summer camp. A one-size-fits-all menu means a bunch of guys will go hungry while a whole bunch of food gets dumped -- even with all the horse trading that goes on at the tables. Our camp has decided that serving line speed is more important that saving food, so dozens of plates are prepared in advance and everyone gets the same serving. Don't like potato salad? We don't care, here's your plate, throw away what you don't want. Which they do. Jambo has made similar decisions -- logistics, lack of refrigeration and cost are more important than providing a menu of what the boys want. Like many things, the lunch plan for jamboree came from the 2007 World Jamboree. There, and at the Summit, the lunch plan had to accommodate the number of Scouts going off-site for activities. At world (and here, if I understand it correctly) was that you are given your lunch during breakfast and carry it with you through the morning. At world, we were given a fairly wide selection of lunch items from which to select. A variety of different sandwiches, three or four different fruits, a very wide variety of "crisps" (never had prawn flavored potato chips until then), several different treats and canned drinks. The only problem was folks taking more than there share -- which was solved by adding a couple staffers to oversee the line. Sounds like the lunch menu here was more simple than possible. And I wouldn't have eaten the macaroni salad either.

They should have asked my opinion. Three years ago, at AP Hill, I was chatting with one of the other scoutmasters in our troop. He was rather down on the whole experience and said '10 would be his first and last jambo. No, I said, I was rather interested in the Summit, and -- except that my preferred job was being eliminated -- I would probably be interested. But later that week I had a conversation with Jack Furst (one of the guys with the a statue at the Summit) and continuing for a year-and-a-half or two, all my direct contact regarding the jamboree was that I was too fat, that the area which I would have staffed (merit badge midway) would be eliminated, when it was re-instated the staff was greatly restricted, that the total number of staff was being cut in half and besides, the facilities -- especially for adults -- would make AP Hill look like the Ritz. My help was neither needed nor particularly welcome. I decide pretty firmly I would not go. Then, over the past year, as reality began to sink in, I've had FOUR specific job offers, not counting the number of "gee, we could really use you" conversations. But by then I made other commitments for the summer and, probably more to the point, had made up my mind I didn't want to go. Here's a hint: when you're trying to recruit volunteers, don't spend quite so much time and energy making them feel unneeded. As to the zip line staffing-- I'd be curious to know how many certified zip line instructors there are in the country. I'm willing to bet 800 represents a considerable portion of the total. Fourteen days is approximately triple the training required of any other top-tier BSA certification. Add the physical and financial requirement and it becomes a pretty steeply declining -- and obvious -- curve.

We had a few older guys chose jambo vs. summer camp. Not an unreasonable decision. Other than that, nothing. Sounds to me that you WRC director is making excuses.

"... what their normal bet times and rise times are..." Okay, I really am laughing out loud at that one. You've never been to Scout camp before, have you dedkad? I realize this is still Webelos, but do you guys really think making tent assignments requires this much adult involvement. How about, "hey, ya'll figure out who your sleeping with."

I heard the day of service mentioned during the presentations on the Summit at the LAST jamboree -- three years ago. Of course that doesn't mean it was commonly know or communicated well.....

"By using ambient temperature, reduction in water and energy use is substantial. We estimate the use of tepid water will cut the average water use per Scout by 50 percentâ€â€and no, it’s not because they’ll take fewer showers; it’s because they won’t be standing under a constant stream of hot water when they do shower. In addition, by not heating water for showers, we expect to save as much energy as it takes to support nine households for a month." Does anyone think this bozo takes cold showers at home? Why not? If cold showers (tepid my Aunt Minnie!) at jamboree is such a great thing, he should be applying the principle at home too. And disconnect the heat and AC and sell the cars. Now that's sustainable! I'm sure the cost and construction schedule had nothing to do with it. That blog is the dumbest pile of bull I've read I a long time. Horse hockey!

From a principled standpoint, I see nothing wrong with Scouts taking time to include some aspect of community service during their time at jamboree. I have more of an issue with parents who have the mindset that they've paid a lot of money to send their kid to jamboree and it dang-well better be amazing. (And this is coming from a guy who has paid a total of six jamboree fees over the years.) This is what's driving the Jambo Disney trend -- Bigger! Higher! More Expensive! My experience is the kids are pretty content to trade patches, explore with their buddies, hang out with new Scout friends or pick up a couple odd merit badges not available at home. Which is why I thought the initial plan for the Summit program (which was eventually scrapped) to ban patch trading and the MB Midway was so stupid). Keep in mind this jambo was built on the model of the 2007 World Jamboree, which is where the day of service idea originated. And it pretty much worked the same way there. The number of Scouts overwhelmed the needs of the local community and the ability of the jamboree to handle the logistics. My Scouts ended up picking up trash for an hour or so, then spent the day hanging out with a bunch of UK Scouts exploring the town they were supposed to be working and climbing on old castle ruins. Being world jamboree, that was pretty cool. Generally, BSA is pretty bad about hyping a few really cool activities on which they can't deliver. Last time it was the skate board demonstration from the kid who looked like Carrot Top -- Sean something?. Half the jamboree showed up and our guys couldn't get within a half-mile of the show. Then there was the big OA "experience" which they hyped for months. But at jamboree someone finally took their shoes and socks of to do the math and discovered the venue could only accommodate a fraction the number of participants. The solution? Short change the troops on the number of tickets they received and let the troops decide who got stiffed. A bigger problem, which Bronco mentioned, was and apparently is the number of adults taking slots at activities from youth participants. I don't give a damn how much you paid to be here or how many hours you worked, that's what you volunteered for. And presumably you volunteered to serve the Scouts, not to take their turn in line. My troop was essentially shut out of the main arena show last time because of the number of staff members who bypassed us in line and took our space. We had our boys buddy-up and go find a spot in the arena as best they could. Some grey-beard regional twit bellowed at us "YOU CAN"T DO THAT!" To which I replied, "we just did!" My ASM made a suggestion which I don't think would have been anatomically possible.

Discipline issues increase exponentially with the number of kids in a tent. With a whole patrol or den in one tent SOMEBODY is always awake yacking. Our patrols have several two-man tents and one three-man, just to accommodate an odd number. But even with odd numbers, we very rarely have three guys in the three-man tents. Usually someone sleeps solo. But that's Boy Scouts. Divide and conquer. I would suggest putting the guys two to a tent with the odd guys in separate tents. Webelos may or may not want to tent solo, so put three together or let the single guy tent with a parent.

Along those same lines, Barry, I've noticed that kids will tolerate anything for 24 hours. If we do a Saturday morning to Sunday morning campout, they figure the don't have to wash, eat or sleep particularly well. They know that at noon Sunday they go home to a hot shower, mom makes a nice lunch and they sleep the rest of the afternoon. Adding Friday night to the campout changes that calculation.

The two years could be any 24 month period -- 730 days from when you began. It doesn't have to align with the charter date, the calendar year, Chinese New Year or anything else. KISS

Back in the day, no one would dare erect a statue like this at a Scout camp. They wouldn't make it 24 hours before a couple creative Scouts would fit them with a pair of jockey shorts with half-can of Alpo in the back side. Wonder what the going rate is for scrap bronze?

Beavah and I had a long debate on this topic about a year ago. I'm good with the blue cards. There are a lot of old-school lesson about responsibility and organization built into it. Beav was much more laisse faire up to and including, "Hey, Mr. Brewmeister, I finished Camping."

More help is always better. Bringing parents in to help with programs and activity pins with which they have some level of expertise is a great idea. But remember Webelos ain't Tigers. Don't let their help become "den leader of the month." Webelos is the first time boys begin to get a real feel for the small unit teamwork they'll hopefully experience in a Boy Scout patrol. Hopefully, your Webelos are experiencing Webelos resident camp and den camping with just their den leaders and each other -- not as a Cub Scout family camp. That's an important part of the transition to Boy Scouts. If I were to write a plan for a "distributed leadership" den arrangement I would have the Webelos DL responsible for the outdoors program (den camping, summer camp, Outdoorsman and maybe a few other related pins) and the Webelos badge and Arrow of Light requirements. The other parents could do any of the other activity pins where they have some level of experience.

While I agree with Kudu's thoughts on physical distance -- I've learned that separating patrols makes it an effort to go "mess" with other patrols solves more discipline issues that anything you can do -- I have come to see that cooking a meal is the essence of a patrol. Every attribute we want to instill in our Scouts is learned, honed and tested while planning, cooking and cleaning up from a meal -- teamwork, cooperation, leadership, courtesy, reverence, delegation, compromise, dealing with adversity and other's shortcomings, not to mention the basic skills involved. We are a cooking troop which means our campouts tend to be more homesteading than trekking. Leave my guys in the woods long enough and they'll have crops in the ground. Getting to that point took years. I could write a book on the things we did to get our Scouts to the point at which they were willing to put al little extra effort into preparing good meals. The hardest part was getting the boys to take some risks and try new things, have some confidence in their own ability and understand that their efforts would pay off in the end -- not a bad life lesson, huh? The first thing I did was to ban both Pop-Tarts and Raman noodles. Yep, dictate top-down from the SM. What I found was that I could encourage several patrols to put the effort in to making a nice meal, but it only took a couple guys walking around munching Pop-Tarts and sneering at the other guys for being chumps to negate the positive gains. Pop-Tarts are the perfect adolescent meal -- easy, require no effort, no team work, they are devoid of any nutritional value, and allow the guys to be seen as bucking the system and getting away with something -- a home run for a 14 year old boy. One of our first cooking programs was a "Iron Chef" weekend during which the troop provided each patrol with an identical larder of food for the weekend (not unlike the way patrol meals are provided for IOLS training.) They were required to use every ingredient and were scored on the creativity and quality among other things. One of the obvious solution was to use the peppers, onions and mushrooms to make an omelet instead of simple scrambled eggs. We were encouraged when, on the next month's campout, several of the patrols brought peppers, onions, sausage, salsa, etc., and started to run with the idea. But the next campout, as all the patrols were working on their breakfasts, a couple guys from the self-appointed "cool kid patrol" walked from campsite to campsite chomping on their Pop-Tarts, bragging about how they slept in, had Pop-Tarts and were already finished with breakfast. The hissing sound was the air being let out of our program. Which is all a long way to make the point that you shouldn't be afraid to step in and establish a baseline for the program. YOU, as Scoutmaster, are responsible for delivering the program. Youth leadership is part of that program, but isn't the tail which wags the dog. Don't get hung up on the idea that you have to wait for the boys to discover the correct path and follow it. ESPECIALLY when trying to fix a broken culture, the unit leaders need to layout the broad strokes of the program then let the Scouts take it from there. It may be necessary for you to reset some of the expectations for the older boys, especially if their current rules of operation are negatively impacting the program for the younger boys. Scouts aren't born with the ability to lead, plan, camp, cook, hike, etc. It takes training. That the older boys have developed poor habits in these areas doesn't mean you are stuck with their poor example. Yes, it will be difficult for them to unlearn those habits and get on with the new program, but they need to. Of course you've got to decide which hills are worth dying on and how far you can push the older Scouts. One of the most beneficial sessions in Wood Badge, I thought, was the one on managing change. My take-away from the session, now almost 10 years ago, was that to manage change you need 1) a clear vision for your end goal, 2) communicate that plan to the group, 3) the fortitude to stick with it, 4) and the willingness to accept some losses along the way. You may lose some of the older Scouts along the away. You've got to decide what are acceptable losses. But most important is having a clear understanding of your goal and staying that course.

I think it is ridiculous. It's one thing if, like jblake does, you use the it as a planned means of injecting a funny, self-deprecating song into a meeting. We have this one guy at Roundtable who sits on the edge of his seat just waiting for some newbie to slip up and mention the "A-word." I've heard him do the song three times in the same meeting. What a stupid waste of time. And another reason I don't do Roundtable.

Welcome! I'm also from the Land of the Long Leaf Pine. A great group of boys is the key. Don't sweat the rest. Learn to tactically ignore the stuff you don't like and focus on your den.

I would accept it. My only disqualification would be a more-than-token level of self-benefit. Other than Eagle projects, I see no reason a project cannot benefit other Scouts. The spirit of the service is more important than the recipient. And besides, two hours? Really? Most our guys knock that our monthly.

I'm referring to the new "Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns" on page 79 or thereabouts, not the MB Counselor Application. As if somehow a form is going to make it easier to challenge counselors who are pencil whipping requirements, especially since the biggest offender are council employees (aka, "camp staff").

I think Beavah, Esq., would add that bylaws may be necessary for units chartered to a stand-alone "Friends of ....." organization, defining voting membership, election of officers, etc.. In that case the bylaws should focus on the structure of the charter organizations, not the operation of the unit. For more typical units chartered to churches or civic groups, bylaws are unnecessary. Otherwise I agree with the others. Leave structural issues to BSA policies and procedures. Local documents should clarify local exceptions or operational issues as Fred listed.

So no bacon scented shampoo?