Twocubdad

Page 4 of the Insignia Guide -- "Districts are operational arms of the local council. Individuals are not identified as residents of a district, but of the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. For this reason district insignia is not authorized for wear on the uniform." Does this make me a uniform cop?

I'm committee chairman of a pack. I'm assuming that up until now your sponsor or Chartered Organization has been financing the Troop. I don't think it unreasonable that if they were providing the money that they should want to control it. But now, as they say, there is a new sheriff in town. I think now is the time to set the expectation with the CO that the troop will be largely self-supporting AND will manage it's own finances. Don't wait until next year when the Troop has built up a nest egg and there is some conflict over an expense. This is a good conversation to have with the Chartered Organization Representative and/or the person who recruited you. Involve your new treasurer, if you have one, and possibly your Unit Commissioner or District Executive. Explain to them how Troop finances will be handled, how the Troop decides make expenditures and agree on what kind of reporting you will make to the CO.

Welcome aboard! The kit should have come with a sheet of basic rules and instructions. Check with the pack or scout shop where you got the kit to get a copy. You also need to check with your pack to see if they have any house rules you need to know about. Beyond that, just search "Pinewood Derby" on any search engine and you'll get a ton of hits. Some are commercial sites trying to sell you their book or video, but many are sites by other scouters just offering advice.

Slightly off the subject (so what else is new?), but the link It's Trail Day gave to the Foxnews story about banning religious groups from college campuses contained yet another link which many of you may find interesting. The site, at www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/home.html is maintained by the Univ. of Missouri Law School. The site has several dozen pages featuring different Constitutional issues, like right to privacy, abortion, gun control, first amendment issues, etc. Each page has a short summary of the pertinent cases and then links to the actual Supreme Court or appellate court decisions -- no fluff, just the actual decisions you can read for yourself. BSA v. Dale is featured on the page "Freedom (Not) To Associate."

Kinda ran out of time last night, so let me add a couple more things --I always turn Whitlin' Chip into a two-meeting program. The first, we do knife safety, care and sharpening and first aid. The second meeting we review the first and then carve something. With the older boys, I let them carve real wood, usually a neckerchief slide. Use something soft with even grain like poplar, basswood or fir. White or sugar pine us okay and cheap, but stay away from yellow or southern pine as it is very difficult to carve. I come up with two or three designs (we've made boots, christmas trees, PWD cars and arrow heads. I always pre-cut the wood on the bandsaw so the boys start with a blank similar to the BSA neckerchief slide kits. The one thing I add, however, is a handle. When you cut the blanks, leave a 4-5-inch piece of wood attached to the blank. This gives the boys much more leverage to hold the piece securely and keeps fingers back away from the carving area. After they finish carving, we cut the handle off with a small handsaw. Use a small piece of 1/2-inch plastic pipe hot glued to the back to poke the neckerchief through.

Cheap soap! Actually I've always used Ivory. I don't know of any patterns you can copy, but look in the BSA catalog at the selection of neckerchief slide kits for some ideas. Our pack has a Whittlin' Chip box that we pass from den to den. The box has a bunch of wooden knives a dad made in his shop. (I've seen tounge depressors used for the same thing.) It also has a bunch of wooden blocks wrapped in sandpaper used as whetstones for the wooden knives. Using that to teaching boys how to sharpen sure saves resharpening the real knives after they wreck the edge. After they've mastered the wooden knives, they can try the real thing.

Kittle, it sounds like you've provided the proverbial horse plenty of opportunities, it's up to him to take a drink. Ultimately, boys and their parents will either "get it" or not. Unfortunately, my experience is that the ones who don't get it eventually drop out. Cub Scouts is a family-based program. If the family's involvement is limited to dropping their son off at meetings, he's not going to make it. We try to make that clear during our orientation talk in Sepeteber. If you are trained, running a good program, and occasionally going the extra mile when needed, you've done your job (and it sounds like you have). Focus on the boys who are doing well and feel good about that.

There is a great deal of variation in how packs do Blue & Golds. Originally, B&Gs started as a "birthday party" for Scouting, celebrating the anniversary of Scouting. Some packs treat the B&G as a big party and just do fun, entertaining stuff. Our pack uses the B&G as the graduation and crossover banquet for the Webelos IIs. Most of the WIIs receive their Arrow of Light awards, then we do the crossover ceremony with representatives of the Boy Scout Troop(s) participating. But it's also a regular pack meeting, so any boy who has earned an advancement receives it. (Although we cut out belt loops and other minor stuff to save time.) The past few two years we've had a "modified potluck" banquet, where by the Pack provides the main course and the families bring side dishes or dessert. Each den is assigned either hot side dishes, cold side dishes or desserts, just to make sure we have enough of each. The pack also provides plates, utensils and drinks. Planning and coordination for the B&G usually starts with the Pack Committee in December. The committee chairman (me) handles planning the ceremonies and coodinating with the Scout Troops (that should probably be the responisbility of the Cubmaster or Advancement chair, but I always handled it, since before I became committee chair.) The Cubmaster handles the normal pack meeting functions (skits, advancement, etc.) and we our Blue & Gold chairman is responsible for the banquet. Each den has a parent banquet rep, who makes sure their den has their dish assignment and is also the person designated to help out with set up. The chariman and den representives form the B&G committee and they handle the details of the banquet. There is never a shortage of people who are willing to help out the night of the event with serving, clean up, etc. (You will find that happens a lot -- everyone is willing to pitch in at the last minute, but few are willing to take responsibility for planning and organizing.) Something new we're trying this year is to have the B&G on a Friday night. With dinner, advancements and the crossover, it got to be too much for a school night. (We're got 100+ scout, so it can run long.)

A slightly different problem, but each year as we got into late winter, I always had a few of my Wolf or Bear Cubs who were falling behind. I sent each boy in the den an "Akela Says" letter summarizing what they needed to do complete their rank advancement. The letter usually said something like "here's what you need to do to complete your Wolf badge by the March Pack meeting" and listed the achievements they had outstanding. I started doing is as simply a record-keeping function, but I was amazed at how it motivated the boys. I suppose it not only gave them a clear picture of what they needed to do, but also gave them a sense of urgency and somewhat of a deadline. Mailing them to the boys made it seem a little more formal and made sure the parents saw it. Invariably, there would be at least one or two boys who would have finished their badge by the next den meeting. I tried to time the letters so that the boys got them just before winter break or a long weekend off from school. I suggested in the letter that working on their scout stuff would be a good activity for the holiday. I dressed it up with some Akela-looking graphics swipped from the net.

Once upon a time, I was big into Pioneer life or folklore. I spent the better part of a summer in college camping and trying to build a log cabin by hand. I discovered the same thing the people on the show did, that this lifestyle requires one heck of a lot of work. One thing about these shows (1900 House -- I think that's the right year -- was a BBC show with the same premise about a British family)which I think is inaccurate is that these people don't have the knowledge or skills to survive in this period. These shows aren't a historically accurate protrayal of life in the period, rather they're about modern families coping with having been dumpped into an unfamiliar enviroment. The frontier families have no idea of how to raise or care for livestock. For a family in the late 1800s, animal husbandry would have been second nature. Most of us, because of our Scouting experience, could probably make due better than most. But while we have some theoretical understand of how poineers lived, would you know what to do if the hens stop laying? Or how to dry hay so it won't spoil? (Le Voyager, don't answer, we know you know all this stuff.) The results would be the same if a 1800s family were dropped in a modern house. They would be building fires in the electric oven and hitching horses to the front of the car.

It won't help for the period prior to 1910, but have you tried writing National? In the early years of Scouting, before the local councils were formed, all units were chartered directly through National. So it's possible that they had the records, at one point, at least. I have no clue who or where to ask. Maybe the new Scout museum?

Anyone have a good idea for a skit with a Pinewood Derby theme?

Aw, come on, pfann! You know no Issues and Politics thread can go past five posts and remain on topic. I think it's in the fine print of the users agreement. NJ -- I'm curious as to this policy change from "known or avowed" to just "avowed." That's a HUGE difference. Where do you find the actual policy?

Rooster, you are exactly right. Homosexuals were targeted for exclusion en bloc because they are a highly visibly and easily distinguishable group. In other words, as I noted in my first post, it was a political decision. Look at it this way, if you were going to write a policy which would ensure that Scout leaders are of high moral character (or at least providing guidance to local units), wouldn't you include more in that policy than just a ban on homosexuals?

Rooster -- If a new leader walks in and says, Yes, I lie. Theres nothing wrong with it," I think they should be denied membership on account of being incredibly stupid, any questions of character aside. Reality is always a little more grey that the stark examples you cite. More likely is someone who says, "I always tell the truth. It just depends on what your definition of 'is' is," to use a example near and dear to your heart. Or a guy I know -- true story -- who constantly cheated on his wife and bragged about it. He always had some excuse as to why it was okay. He was either "in love" or "it was just a one-night fling and didn't mean anything" or "his wife was a b----". But HE never did anything wrong and I'm sure he considers himself an upstanding, moral person. But with ten bucks and an adult application signed by our COR and me (that will be a cold day), he's in. Where is the outrage, the indignation and the national policy against bums like this? Don't get me wrong. I think the Supreme Court got it exactly right and I think BSA does have an obligation to provide moral leadership. Two guys wearing Queer Nation t-shirts wanting to be ASMs so they can "work with boys who may be having homosexual feelings" have the same chance of getting me to sign their application as the above guy who cheated on his wife. Where I disagree is with the blanket statement that all homosexuality is immoral. While I don't personally believe that, I understand you do and I respect those beliefs. Assuming that your CO agrees, I have no problem with your unit making membership decisions based on that belief. In contrast to the above examples, take the hypothetical of a father who after several years of marriage comes to the conclusion that he is gay. He is a great dad to his sons, attends church, works well with the other boys and leaders, lives alone and keeps his social life to himself. I think it is the height of hypocrisy that there is an iron-clad, national policy that this dad cannot be a Scout leader, while the low-life who flagrantly breaks his marriage vows may.

I usually stay out of these threads on homosexuality. In fact, when a thread degenerates into the same old discussion on gays and Scouting, I'd like to see Scouter.com mark the thread so those of us not interested can avoid it. Maybe a little lavender triangle in the subject line..... But although Rooster and I come to different conclusion on the subject, he has very eloquently stated my main objection to the BSA policy. "In the end, I agree sin is sin. All sin separates us from God," Rooster very accurately writes. My objection is that BSA is shopping its sins. Being homosexual has become the third rail of Scouting. Save child abuse or a conviction for violent crime, we can forgive just about anything else. As the chairman of a Pack committee, if a den leader shows up for den meeting with his 21-year-old boyfriend wearing leather pants and a dog collar, I've got a problem with that. I have the same problem if he shows up with his similarly-dressed 21-year-old GIRLFRIEND. But National, apparently, does not. Why is there a blanket ban on one but not the other? True, local units and COs have the ability to disqualify individual as they see fit. But where is the national policy against adulters serving as leaders? Heterosexual Scouters shacking up is okay? How about people who cheat on their taxes or illegally copy CDs for their friends? How about abandoning one's marriage vows? Are not these evidence of a lack of character? Are these sinners the kind of people we want leading our children? The answer is politics. BSA strokes one of its largest constituancy groups by banning gays. What do you think happens if they ban divorced leaders? I'm obviously being sarcastic -- I don't wish Scouting to become the Inquisition. But is it not a more rational policy to say that the local leaders -- the folks who know the adults in questions, who know the beliefs and feelings of the families in their unit, and who know the desires of their CO -- are best qualified to make these decisions? If a LDS-sponsored unit wants to boot a leader for drinking coffee on a campout, that's their business. But if a unit sponsored by a San Francisco neighborhood co-op has a great SM who happens to be gay, why can't that be their business too?

Thanks for the cite, OGE. Note, however, what it does and does not say and compare that to what the BSA spokesman said in the original post. It does NOT require disclosure of communicable diseases, but it DOES allow local units/charter organizations a local option to determine the "desirability" of allowing individuals with communicable diseases to join their unit. Of course, there may another policy somewhere to which we mere volunteers aren't privy. NJ, I agree with you completely that the medical info is handled in a far-too cavalier manner. At Webelos camp this summer, the medical forms were all kept unattended in a notebook on a table in the corner of the dining hall. At the end of camp, the forms were left for us in an envelope along with our camp patches. There needs to be some guidance as to has access to this information. I agree with the previous posters who have written that the information needs to be available on a liberal need to know basis. If parents and leaders think general knowledge of a particular boy's condition is helpful, that's up to them. (This is probably fodder for another thread, but given BSA's lack of care in handling medical information, how do you think they will safe guard Social Security numbers they will now require on all applications to facilitate background checks?) I don't see any reason a camp or unit leader needs the results of a physical, like that which is reported on a Class 3 form. All that is needed is a can/cannot participate statement from a doctor. (Frankly, I don't think most doctors know what activities are included in order make that judgement. My doctor signed my Class 3 this summer without knowing if I would be spending the week in a hammock or climbing at altitude. But again, that's another subject.) But more than that, I don't think the current medical forms are useful in the least. Please show me on the Class 1 or 2 forms the space where communicable diseases are to be reported? In the event of an emergency, no physician anywhere is going to treat anyone on the basis of a form they bring in with them. Every doctor will do their own evaluation, even in an emergency sitation. What is needed is a consent form which is acceptable to hospitals (I believe several months ago there was a thread which mentioned that the current consent wasn't accepted somewhere) and plain-language information a leader needs to keep those in his unit safe and healthy. "Johnny is asthmatic. Excessive dust or pollen and strenuous exercise may trigger an attack. He has an inhaler if an attack occurs." "Bill has hemophilia. He cannot participate in contact sports or rough activities. Small cuts and bruises can be life-threatening." "Joe takes allergy medicine. One pill at bedtime." That tells me exactly what I need to know either to prevent or to handle an emergency.

This seems to be an area where national needs to provide a little more guidance -- AND another example of how poorly BSA communicates policy to the volunteers. Had anyone else heard of the policy requiring notification of deadly communicable diseases? I generally agree that in the cases of communicable diseases, severe allergies or similar situations, there is a need to know among leaders. I'm not sure that this extends to everyone in the troop. HIV is an extreme example. There are many other situations where the adults need to be aware of things in the case of an emergency, but the information doesn't need to be made public. This past summer I led our pack's group to Webelos Resident Camp, which was my first time dealing medical forms. I was somewhat uncomfortable having the forms, especially the class 3 forms for some of the adults. Do I really need to know what someone's blood pressure is or that their last PAP smear was normal? Why is it necessary for anyone to have the exam results, other that the MDs okay to participate? Emergency information and medical information that the leaders' need should be handled on a different form. There also needs to be some guidance as to how to handle the information.

I'd like to know what your regular rules are. Thanks.

Based on the article, judges are already banned from membership in country clubs and other "groups that discriminate against women and minorities." Thus far, they've been allowed BSA membership only because of an exception to that rule.

While I can't cite chapter and verse from the Insignia Guide, it has been often stated here and elsewhere that once a uniform part is issued, it is always considered official, even if it is no longer offered for sale by the supply division. Thus, the red barets, field or "envelop" caps, even the canvas leggings are still considered official BSA uniform elements.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Are the red & white community and state strips not covered under the "once official, always official" policy? Or are they considered "District Insignia", thus prohibited in the Insignia Guide? If they are allowed under the "once/always" policy, is a new, reproduction patch allowed or do they have to be original BSA issue from they '70s or before? Hmmmmm..... Where are all our Scout lawyers, taking an early Christmas/winter solstice break?

I'd like to second an earlier post relating to a parka with a zip-out liner. Scouts in cold weather look like a bunch of homeless people (sorry if that's not PC). I recently bought a really nice Columbia parka with a breathable shell and a nice liner for $135. I know that's steep for kids, but if you could buy each half for half price, that may be more doable. And kid certainly don't need the quality of a Columbia parka. I've always loved my Woolrich jac-shirt, but at almost $100, it's no steal, either. It's great for cool, but not cold weather and you don't want to wear it in the rain. Plus, it has to be dry cleaned. Here's another idea -- why don't they bite the bullet and develop an actual "Class B" summer uniform. Shorts, socks, hat and a nice, cable knit golf shirt, similar to the red activity shirts they have now. (But better than the current one. It's 50/50 blend and feels like you're wearing a trash bag in the summer.) Needs to be 100% cotton. There needs to be some easy way to attach some insignia -- maybe some system of a pocket-protector-type gizmo that clips onto the pocked and carries council, troop, rank and name info. Could be taken off for activities where it may get in the way.

A Boy Scout may wear a square knot for a religious emblem earned as a Cub Scout? That's a new one on me. I thought the AOL was the only Cub Scout award that may be transferred to the Boy Scout uniform. Do you have a cite for that? By the way, always wear my palms on my Eagle knot.

I just ordered a copy, too. I think this was the second movie I ever saw at a theater (Sword and the Stone was first) when I was about four or five. I'm looking forward to watching it with my two cubs. It appears that these people are buying the videos in Europe and Asia (apparently it's PC over there), reformatting them in to US video standards, then selling them with the original packaging. Sounds like gray market, but Disney's getting their cut up front, so the heck with them.`