Twocubdad

Not too far from you coordinates are a couple of large memorablia dealers. If you want someone to eyeball the books and tell you what they think, you may try some of these: Hammerstone Scout Museum, Lillington NC, 901-814-2955 The Carolina Trader, Monroe NC, 704-282-1339 Streamwood, Easley SC 864-859-2915 If you do a search, you can probably find them on line.

I'd love to hear a report on that meeting. I'm district roundup chairman. We're trying to work on some "outside the box" ideas for Tiger recruitment -- possibly changing the focus to late spring instead of fall. I'd like to hear what's new from national.

A very interesting and enlightening thread (some of the chest beating aside ). This started about the time I joined the board and I must have missed it the first time around. I like to think that at some point, BSA recognizes that situations will arise in which common sense and good judgement may trump the rules -- even bold-type policy. If you are ever really faced with one of these far-fetched scenarios, all that can be asked of a leader is to give due consideration to the rules and then apply common sense and good judgement. I hope no one will fault you for that. I only trust that the stuffed shirts from legal in Irving see things that way. Our training should teach us how to apply the rules, not their rote memorization. Analyze, adapt, overcome... I'm certain I read that somewhere. I think it was KoreaScouter, way back when, who said that before deciding to violate one of the bold-type policies, you should know that it could cost you your Scouting career. Whether or not that ultimately happens, that's probably not a bad mindset with which to approach such a decision. I won't drag up another hypothetical, but I can envision situations where that may be the choice. I also agree with Bob and Littlebillie that good planning can prevent most problems. Two-deep leadership isn't the only requirement. In Cubs, we are required to have 5:1 boy to adult ratio, in addition to being two-deep. (I don't know if Boy Scouts has a similar requirement.) Keeping that ratio should provide enought adults to cover most situations.

I think that's great. During my days in Scouts, completing the appropriate Red Cross first aid or lifesaving cours was de facto completion of the related merit badges. I don't know if that was actual policy or just the convention of the local MB counselors. I don't know if that's where they are headed with this agreement, but wouldn't be a bad idea. Red Cross courses and training is, generally, very well done. Not only did I take the RC courses as a Scout, but I eventually became a RC swimming and lifesaving instructor and a CPR instructor-trainer.

I have a 3-inch buck knife I carry. I like it because of it's quality will hold an edge and that it's a little bigger than a pocket knife. I detest fussy little knives that require a pair of pliers to open. I carry it in a belt holder, which I much prefer to having stuff in my pockets. I also carry a brand-X leatherman on my belt. (Yes, with the leatherman, knife, camp cup and sometimes cell phone, I look like Batman.) I've found that I don't need a leatherman with a ton of gadgets, but that I prefer the longer ones to the shorter version. The longer ones can double as hot pot tongs.

At our camp, out of 480 acres, is a 20x20-foot area behind the dining hall, next to the dumpster. Subtle, eh?

The last time our council's site was updated Bill Gates was still carrying his own golf clubs. I'm not optimistic.

As your son is still a Webelos, perhaps you should keep looking for a troop that shares your outlook.

My sons are actually have better pants for outdoors that I do. A lot of their school pants these days are the techy-looking convertable pants with all the zippers, loops and cargo pockets. They actually make pretty good outdoor gear. Many of them have cotton liners, so watch that. A decent pair of acrylic fleece sweats or long-johns underneath and they are good to go. My best trick for staying warm and comfortable at night is to change in to tomorrow's dry socks and underwear at bedtime. Nothing worse than sleeping in damp, clammy clothes. I also sleep with a tent flap open unless it's raining outside. You will stay much warmer by letting the moisture excape from the tent than you will by the few degrees you gain keeping the tent sealed up.

That's an unfortunate situation and is a good example why unit commissioners should be unaffilliated with the units they serve. The UC should be the disinterested party to whom you can take such problems. You didn't really say what their objection is, but there is a lot of backup in the Cub Scout Leaders' Handbook that boys should advance at their own pace and that they should receive their award at the next pack meeting. Our pack encourages boys to earn their rank badges in the Feb - March time frame, before spring sports and activities kick in. In some cases, it's just a matter or organization inertia. Our pack, for example, is still in the mindset that all the Tiger badges should be awarded at the pack picnic in May. But that's just a holdover from the old Tiger program, where the Tigers didn't really earn a rank, they all just graduated in to a Wolf den. Last year it just happened that all the Tigers did earn their badges in May, but I know we have a few Tigers now who are on track to earn their badges earlier. We're going to have to adjust our Tiger ceremonies accordingly. Advancement is one of the top Methods of Cub Scouting and prompt recognition is a key element of advancement. Stick to your guns, you have the "law" on your side. (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

At the time the case was decided, I remember seeing a photo of Dale, in uniform, in Time magazine. (I found the article on Time.com, but not the photo.) I recall that the photo was taken outside the courthouse for one of the hearings, although not necessarily outside the Supreme Court. It seems to me he was surrounded by protesters, but my impression was they were there in support of the lawsuit. I think if it were a "smoking gun" photo of him at the original Rutgers rally, that would have been noted in the caption and I would have probably remembered.

It is permissible to have a combined Wolf/Bear den. That's not uncommon for a new, small pack. You can also combine Webelos I and IIs in he same den. Tigers must be in a separate den and you cannot mix Wolf/Bears with Webelos. But back to Glenn's problem, it sounds to me like it's time to call the district commissioner or executive. The problem here is the Webelos leader, and it's not the troop's responsibility to deal with this guy. To be honest, if all his Webelos are as screwed up as he is, you may not want them. (Just kidding, well sort of kidding, no actually I'm really mean it.) The commissioners or the DE needs to try and salvage the other boys in the den and straighten the mess out. Unfortunately, I'm sure the Webelos leader is spinning everything that he's just trying to look out for his boys, and particularly these two brothers who are having such a hard time. His heart may be in the right place, but his head surely isn't. The bottom line is there isn't a snowflake's chance that this kid's registration is going through the system, regardless what troop they go to -- especially if the DE is made aware of it. Even if the boy somehow gets registered, he's not covered by the insurance, the troop has no liability protection if something happens, etc., etc.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Let us suppose that everything you have said is largely true. Let us also suppose that the US case against Iraq is also largely true. Here's how the geopolitical game works. I've got a $200 billion investment in Iraq, then I need to solve the problem. Germany, France, Russian and China need to be out front disarming Iraq and finding Sadam a nice little retirement villa on the Crimean. If these countries have invested a combined $1 trillion in the sole hands of Sadam Hussein, then they are idiots and deserve to have their infrastructure blasted into rubble. You cannot tell me there isn't another layer of Iraqi military, bureaucratic, or business leadership who would sell out Sadam of a trillion dollars. King Faud, or whoever the heck his name is, may rule Saudi Arabia with an iron fist, but I guarantee that if he ever puts the investments of all the oil companies and the Saudi ruling class at risk the way Sadam has, he's outta there as fast as you can say ninety-nine cents a gallon. The reason we still believe that the North Korean situation can be solved "diplomatically" is because we believe that China will ulitmately come to bear on North Korea and solve the problem for us. Someone should give these guys the boxed set of Soprano reruns and show them how it works.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Okay everybody, breathe, two, three, four..... For the record, I was the one who said our pack flag has a lot of relatively fragile banners and is "permanently" attached to the pole. True, nothing is really permanent, but in this case it is screwed onto a nice wooden pole with a Cub emblem on top. Screwing and unscrewing the flag from the pole repeatedly will eventually strip the holes, which is why we don't fool with it. Plus, the whole rig is matched with an American flag and therefore we leave it indoors for formal occasions. If our priority was to take the flag camping with us, we could certainly make other arrangements. But that's not a priority for us, it was SC-Pack428 who raised that point. I will add that I don't think BSA flags are priced the way they are because of greed. No one is getting rich off flag sales. Its more likely a matter of control and bureaucratic arrogance. Why are the only flags offered top-of-the line? Can they not offer a generic, screen-printed flag without all the expensive hand lettering? The insignia guide acknowledges a difference between a field uniform and an activity uniform. What's wrong with doing the same with the flags? I don't see a big issue here. If SC's pack wants to make a smaller pack flag, good for them.

While it's rare for a child to be allowed to skip a grade anymore, rarer still is a child who skips based on purely academic criteria. Although it was more common when we were kids, I can't imagine a small, immature kid being allowed to skip grades based solely on classroom performance. Almost by definition, a boy who has skipped a grade likely has the social skills and maturity that goes with it. As district Roundup chairman, I bet I had a hundred parents ask me about their seven-year-old kindergartener joining Tigers. While it is ultimatly the parents' decision, I always tried to steer them away from it (to the dismay of my registration-hungry DE). I think it is better that a boy is in the a den with his classmates and peers, rather than being the lone boy a year behind the others. The esprit d'corps you get with all the buddies in Scouts together is a big part of the experience. Although the situation never came up, I think the converse would be true, too. If a boy is being held back a year and he and all his buddies are eligible to join, it may be a good idea for him to stay with his peer group. But again, my main point is that if the boy meets one of the age/grade requirements, then it's the parent's call.

The only way the younger brother could have legally earned his AOL is if he has skipped ahead in school. You are right, Cub requirements are age or grade, just like Boy Scouts. The requirements for AOL incudes being active (in BSA parlance, "registered")as a Webelos for six months since completing the fourth or since turning 10 years old. Unless the kid has skipped a grade or two, I don't see how he makes it, and as Sctmom says, that's not very common now days. On the other hand, if the Webelos leader is saying the boy has "earned" his AOL by having attended and participated in all the activities, that's not right either. Per the above, he can't be a registered Webelos and therefore cannot have earned the AOL. Sounds like the Webelos leader has done them a real disservice. But still, you hate to see the older brother get screwed because his mom has her heel dug in. If transportation is the problem, try to work something out. Try to get to the root problem and overcome that. Right now, the mom has found a problem she can blame on someone else. The younger brother should be eligible to join the troop this time next year, so the problem isn't going to last forever.

That's how my hat fits. Because they sit flat on your head, if they pulled down on your head like a baseball cap, the front would be down over you eyes. There's also a bit of a break-in period. Once the band conforms to your head better, it's more comfortable.

That's true, Bob, but our pack flag includes about 75 ribbons, some of which are relatively fragile. The flag is also permanently mounted to the wooden pole and hauling the base around isn't that practical. It would be nice to have a second, smaller pack flag we could hoist on the flagpole on campouts. But I don't see spending several hundred dollars on one, though.

Make a pattern of the emblem on a photocopy machine, enlarging the image until you have it the size you want. Get a piece of the blue flag material and pin or tape the pattern to it. Then just cut the emblem out. You don't have to precisely follow every detail of the pattern. In fact, the pattern will be rough, depending on the size of the original and the number times you have to enlarge it. For the border and lettering, you can clean up the pattern by straightening out all the lines before cutting. Once you have the pattern cut out, you're best bet will be to glue it to the red background (check with the banner maker or a fabric shop to find out what kind of glue to use). You may or may not want to sew the edges of the emblem to the background, depending on whether or not you think it will fray or how you think the glue will hold up. I would think the banner maker can help you with that process. It's a time-consuming process and takes some hand work, but is really pretty easy and straight forward. I used a similar process to make cub scout logos out of adhesive vinyl for a banner our boys carry in parades. Sign makers can to it all on a computer with a scanner, but they charge a fortune for it. I had them do the lettering, which is fairly inexpensive, and did the hand work myself. That may be another option to look at -- having a vinyl banner made instead of a real flag. On outings, you can post the banner and leave the flag at home. When we march in parades, our pack carries the American and pack flag along with the banner I made. The banner has all the same info as the pack flag, but because it's carried horizontally, it's much more readable and better identifies the group.

The Insignia Guide controls the design and use of unit flags, but doesn't say anything about an official size. Under the heading "Unit Flags" it says "for size and materials, refer to Flag Order Form No. 70-421." I'd ask the scout shop for a copy of that form and see what that says. With that said, if you want to check with a local seamstress or a shop that makes deocorative banner and have a flag made to your specifications, I don't see a problem. The flag you make won't be "official", but given the circumstances, I can't imagine anyone giving you a problem over it, especially if you use the smaller flag for activities and use the official flag for more formal occasions. You need stick with the design and lettering guidelines in the Insignia Guide, and match the colors and material. This is another situation where the Supply Division could do a better job, or at least be more upfront with the cost. The catalog lists the price of the 3x5 flag as $32.50 and requires that they be sold with lettering. Our brother troop bought one last year and spent more that $300 on it.

Bob I've very disappointed to learn that the BSA's top leadership could be that, well, un-American. I am fully aware that as a private organization, BSA has the right to pick and choose its members. Unlike governmental entities, they are not bound to respect the rights of others. But as a whole, I think Americans expect that the people and organizations they deal with do respect those rights -- to they will have a democratic voice in the direction of the organization and be able to speak freely and even critically of the organization policy and leadership. Even in business, a company as autocratic as the one you discribe will have a difficult time attracting and keeping good employees. I can only hope that while BSA may revoke a membership for the reasons you list, that they show more restraint and respect for their individual members than that. It would be instructive to know the circumstances under which memberships have actually been revoked for "political" reasons. I'm also disappointed that you apparently think so little of the unit leaders' ability to participate in the policy decisions of the organizations. You wrote, "If unit leaders voted on every decision we would veer back and forth like a sail boat without a rudder traveling only where the strongest wind of opinion blows with no real course to follow." No one suggested that unit leaders should vote on "every decision," any more that the COR's vote on every decision now. My suggestion was that the people closest to the program -- those with the most passion, the most knowledge, and the most experience -- be given a seat at the table. As to your suggestion that I raise my contribution as an experiment, I will tell you that my current level of giving speaks for itself. I have laid eyes on my Council Executive exactly five times and have had the chance to speak with him on four of those occasions. Two of those times and one conversation were at program-related events. Most of the conversations I've had with the man were at FOS patrons' luncheons. As the politicians say, your donations may not buy influence, but it sure buys access.

My mom won't let me go....

You can get bounced for "speaking out" against the BSA? Wow, our DE is going to be very lonely at district committee meetings. Of course, the meetings will be MUCH shorter...... But to the point, the problems with that and with the the don't avow/don't listen/three monkeys policy on gays is that it very quickly become governance by the whim of local officials, not by clear national policy. How do I know what is or isn't out of bounds? If a reporter sticks a mic in my face and asks me my opinion of the gay policy, can I speak my mind or do I have to spout the party line? And what's public? A frank discussion at a Roundtable? How about while taking a break from a training session (ask the athiest kid in Washington to answer that)? Or how about a Internet bulletin board? Absent a clear policy, who stays and who goes is left to the whim and descretion of the Scout Executive. And does anyone think some poor, underpaid SE sweating United Way cuts is going to give the same sway to a big-bucks donor running his mouth at a FOS banquet, versus some 20-year-old ASM talking outside a training session? And another thing -- the system of COR and CO heads having the only vote on the council and national committees may have been handed down on stone tablets by Lord Robert Baden-Powell himself, but it's a pretty lousy system too. People in those positions have the least knowledge of the program, the least experience, and the least involvement of anyone in the program. But maybe that was the point. Heaven forbid if they give a bunch of curmudgeonly old Scouters the right to vote on policy issues. I know, I know. These are the people who own the charters and own the units. So what. For 150 years, US Senators were appointed by state governors, before we citizens were given the right to vote on them. I hope these comments aren't over the line.

Is this the guy on the Today show last week? Cool.

Bless you, Bob White, I'm copying your original post and handing it out at Roundtable this week. One other factor I think plays a bigger role than many may consider is the intimidation an 11-year-old feels joining a troop of much older boys. A good Troop Guide, New Scout Patrol with an ASM assigned to supervise them goes a long way, but it is also important for the rest of the troop to be mindful of the new boys. Leaders need to keep an extra eye out for boys who are having a hard time adjusting. That's a problem for one of the Troops affiliated with our Pack. I see a lot of older boys more interested in being cool and doing their own thing than bringing the new boys along. For the first few months, the entire troop needs to be in "crossover mode" with all the boys on the lookout to help a new guy.