blw2

well said @ParkMan. Very well said. the meeting is only reporting situations and status, brainstorming, hearing from the program side scouters (scoutmaster or cubmaster), and a forum for for the committee to give input or information to the program side scouters. 100% of that can be done outside of a meeting Honestly, I often felt that in this day and age, with all of our options for immediate digital communications.....on both the individual and on the group levels...that the meetings are almost a waste of time...certainly not necessary. About the only good from them is the benefits of face to face time....and even that can be done digitally if your really wanted to

....or sitting on the roof of my RV with my coffee watching the sunrise hot air balloon launch drift over the campground.... or later in the day sitting in that same spot with my favorite beverage and a snack, watching the Blue Angles pull a 6-8G turn just a few hundred feet directly over my head those were both memories from my trip to Sun n Fun earlier this year, not Air Venture but close..... and would be even sweeter sitting around a camp site with friends ...now that I'm thinking about it, I've seen a few troops camping at Sun n Fun. One was near to my RV spot this year...but I didn't take note of if they were getting around this issue... oh wait, never mind...that one was a cub pack / family camping.... but there was a troop there too someplace... I saw the scouts roaming about.

Hi, sorry...I'm not overly familiar with the area's camping. I've camped at air venture, and understand that problem now that you mention it. I'd suggest contacting the EAA and asking if they have any way to help you. I say this because if you can stay on site the experience is almost infinitely better. the night programs, shows... being able to walk the grounds with no clouds and see the planes....the vintage area at dawn was striking to me... the yodeling wake up call (if they still do it)...it's just the whole experience.. they have a large youth program called young eagles, and they also run a lodge there...like a summer camp...so no doubt they understand the issue. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have an area carved out someplace for scouts and such... That said, the only area I'm a little familiar with is Green Lake. My brother in law's brother has a house there and we've stayed there a few times and attended air venture multiple days in a row, driving back and forth. It's a nice little town. Several evening activities through the summer...concerts in the park sorata thing, water ski shows, family oriented...grab an ice cream kind of things. There's a little campground within walking distance of town...might be hard to get that weekend though... I don't really know anything about the layout though... Also a big conference center campus there like a huge park...something Christian I believe. Have no idea if they offer camping or anything, but they might be a resource. Good luck finding a place. Hope it works out because it's a fun experience.

completely different topic than the issue in this thread..... BUT my son was on this track at first. He just had no interest in the rank or the patch. He was having a great time and doing much of the work with enthusiasm...until something changed and he got bored and lost interest...ultimately quit scouts at the rank of Tenderfoot. I was personally hoping for First Class (both rank and spirit), and would have called it a success, even at 17

also agreed but this is correct. A while back, when I was frustrated about some things in our troop not being what I considered to be "creating the ideal experience for the scouts", I was advised something by Clarke Green at scoutmastercg. I think it's something that applies very often in lots of scenarios...and this is one I think. If you are not the SM, or the CC (or some might also argue the Chart Org Rep too), then you going in and trying to solve a problem is kinda like you showing up at your neighbor's front door with a gallon of green paint, and telling him that his beige living room wall is the wrong color and you are here to help him fix that problem. ....When looked at in this way, it's helpful for your sanity, IMO, because it helps a person to let it go. About the only things you can really do if a problem is identified, is to point it out, suggest some solutions...and then let it go..... if you're not happy...resign...and if a scout isn't happy, well that's a real shame because he may not benefit from what scouting could give him. (I'm reluctant to say they can move troops, because I think more often than not this may sound good and look good on paper, it is not at all realistic in many cases and not possible in others)... ....or I suppose another option for a scouter would be to gain the trust of the CC and CO Rep, and then volunteer to take a key 3 role

I went back and re-read my post to clarify what I meant, I think a lot of folks just don't know about this EIN requirement and this whole grey area. Generally it would only be new units that would have to wade through it. In our case, our stuff was a mess... and that's the only reason I got into it. the bank we used was a small local place and they were hard to work with much of our stuff (banking, paypal account, trailer registrations, etc...) was set up under the old SM's name & SSN. SM's son was acting treasurer...SM passed away making transferring difficult & son left the picture leaving it to the CC to run for a while till I took the job. and prob a few other things, but you get the picture... So, me taking the treasurer job was the perfect time to do a clean hand-off. We set up the new bank account and such and closed out the old before I officially took it. Through the process we realized why the previous folks had it set up that way... it was the path of least resistance. Otherwise nothing would have ever gotten done. The CO is somewhat easy to work with...but the authority is trumped by diocese... and really neither they or the parish want anything to do with 'ownership' so in the end, I think a good way to look at it all is summed up well when you look at how transfer of assets would happen if the unit closes shop...it's the unit's responsibility to manage the assets while in operation. When a unit closes down, they are responsible for paying off outstanding debts with any assets. Then after that, any remaining assets transfer to the CO. EIN is sorta the same. CO is responsible party, but it's allowing the unit's representative (like a CFO) to manage things autonomously.

not exactly true, based on my research a couple years ago. The EIN has nothing really to do with being a legal entity. they didn't want the units to incorporate, or anything like that....but getting an EIN is really not that big of a deal...maybe What I learned is that the majority of troops and units are operating in bank accounts taht were established long ago, so a lot of folks don't know about it.... basically it was a big grey muddy mess as I was looking through it all. The real sticky issue is the non-profit. Basically you need to be really sure if the CO is ok with your using their status. Anyway, what I did as I was going through all of this... our CO is a church I set up a new EIN for the troop. The CO is listed as the responsible party . I was listed as the "primary contact" can't remember the exact term... I had a letter from the pastor allowing us to use their info, the bank wanted a copy of this. and the bank wanted something on troop letter head outlining things like the name of the "business", the listed signers, and probably a couple other things. So we had an EIN but were not incorporated or in any way an entity. The church was the responsible party, but from their perspective they did not "own" the troop and wanted nothing to do with it.

you know, this really isn't such a problem. A lot of what she "knows" sounds like it might not be the best way to go anyway. and, none of it is all that hard and not a big deal to figure out solutions, in the big scheme of things and, a fresh reboot with "new blood" probably wouldn't be a bad thing anyway...

OP here.. follow-up report.... He had a pretty good time at YMCA camp... good enough to say he'd definitely go back next year if his friends go too. From my perspective, the camp wasn't as good as I was led to believe...but I'm not really surprised by that. The freedom to do what they wanted in the way of organized activities sorta ended the 1st day. they had to sign up for activities....I think it was 2 morning periods and 1 afternoon period. By the time son and friend could sign up, the really "good" activities were full. They got arts and crafts (which was probably what friend wanted, BB guns, and ultimate Frisbee. Neither or sporty at all so Frisbee wasn't good. Think he said he only threw it one time the whole week. Sounded like the bb guns were junk... but it sounds like they had fun anyway and made the most of it. I think they were able to do that because there were lots of free periods...I think one was a cabin activity where the whole cabin as a group rotated around somehow to different stuff. Also a good bit of time for them to swim or do whatever they wanted. couple other cons (my perspective)...but didn't seem to bother him too much.... he and friend were put in an older age group cabin. All good kids form the sound of it, and they were included..playing cards and stuff, but mostly the older guys talked about "girls and stuff". They aren't quite there yet... The other thing was at trading post time it seems that they would be out of the good snacks by the time he got to choose...but again, he wasn't very upset about it. Overall, it was a win.

I know a couple kids like this. Sometimes it's mom that makes dad go on every trip, sometimes it's not mom'd directive. Regardless, I agree with eagledad about parents not understanding the program....or in this case even what I would argue one of the aims of scouts... to foster self confidence and just plain ole growing up. It could also be some bullying or something happening, but more likely it's parents never letting their hatchling fly. I've forgotten what your position is with the troop, but I'd say regardless of what it is, about the only thing I can think of is to find a way to discuss your concern with dad in a very questioning and friendly manner, I'm fairly sure that most dads would agree that they don't want their son's to be this way..... try to steer his line of thought towards purposely staying away from the camp outs for a while....in a way so that's it's kinda his idea if you know what I mean. It might be a bit of a process because I think you'd have to fix it so that the SPL or one of the older scouts puts extra effort into secretly coddling the scout in question...making him feel welcome, not letting him have an opportunity to get lonely or bored, etc... and to be really inviting to the scout to camp with his patrol. I think a key in some of these cases is to get the kid to sleep before he's over tired. I've seen this in one of my daughter's friends during sleepovers that never happen... all that being considered, if the other scouters aren't supporting...or the dad isn't open to the idea... then move on, pick another battle, and just pray that the problem works itself out eventually.... but don't worry about it. You can only do what you can do....

I have found that if you iron them on hard and long...longer than I think it should be, more than the directions say....then they have a very firm hold...but then I haven't had a long haul test....so far they've only had each a couple years before they get the next color....(daisy, Brownie, junior,...)

That is a very common issue I think...the folks, I used to call them 'old guard', that just can't let go. They are stuck doing things a certain way... I'd guess in some cases they really don't even know the "correct" way.... if she was doing it all out of necessity, then the whole operation is an ad hoc thing.... probably somewhat of a mess but it's the best she could do and it works... and because it worked for her, and because she probably feels some ownership in the unit...doesn't want to let it down, and all sorts of things like that.... so she can't let go. and I don't take it that way at all.... when I wrote that about being rogue, it was more like mocking humor about how the chairperson might see it... Personally i see it as quite the opposite... and I'll reiterate.... even if it's not a meeting in name or formality, concerned and active scouters can get together on their own and 'take care of a lot of the business'...and beyond that, for the things they can't take care of...well, all you can do is to do the best at what you can do. After that, not your problem.

Thanks for a good discussion so far. Yes very little time indeed. I never even got in the lake all week to do the big air bag launcher thing during open swim. Worse than that I don't think some of the scouts had a chance either! It was such a short free time window before dinner, right when the troops had their own chores to attend to... and I think Fred is right about "troop time"... I think it safe to say that most troop adults would fill that time with more stuff the boys don't want to do really.... yes, the Y camp was expensive, but it's also all inclusive. no volunteers needed, the store for buying snacks and such was like an open bar at a wedding (i'm sure with a daily limit). No uniform required, lots of other gear and manuals not required, air conditioned cabins.... All things considered it doesn't seem all that much more. (and yes, I know cabins aint "camping" but in my view this thing is almost more about the experience than the material the shelter is made out of... a sheet of plywood or a sheet of canvas.... different sure, but not that much.)

That is a great analogy of what I understand most camps' primary focus is...MB Colleges.

Thanks. I still check in quite often, but don't post quite as much. I like this scout stuff and sometimes is just good parenting discussion too..