True Believer

Once you read those old Scoutmaster books, you can never go back..... Even the most doubtful about "boy-lead" has to be amazed at the things Scouts were able to do back then. I'm not sure any of my Scouts would measure up to any of things those Scouts were doing in the 1940's....we just don't let them. One year into Scout-planned and Scout -executed, and I can see the difference. Stay the course, and spread the word. Hold a parent meeting and let them know what the real scout program is all about.

I have a Troop of about 30 Scouts. Our ASPL works with the SPL , as the SPL requests and sits in for him when the SPL is not available. However, his primary duty is to supervise the job being done by non-PLC leaders: Historian, Quartermaster, Troop Guides, Instructors, etc. It works pretty well for us.

I spoke to the parent and they were completely helpful. Dad will be coming with us to our overnight events, at least until we get a handle on how the son will react to our programs via his sleep walking. Turns out, the more excitement he has during the day, the more likely he is to sleep walk. We have a "stand up" parent here.....very good news. Thanks everyone.

I spoke to the parent and they were completely helpful. Dad will be coming with us to our overnight events, at least until we get a handle on how the son will react to our programs via his sleep walking. Turns out, the more excitement he has during the day, the more likely he is to sleep walk. We have a "stand up" parent here.....very good news. Thanks everyone.

One problem solved, another one pops up..... A mom of a newly bridged Scout has informed me that his son sleep walks. She would like to know what we will do to protect her son during our overnight camp in two weeks. Of course it is near a lake. She says in Cub Scouts, her husband used to pitch his tent by the opening of the son's tent, so if he got out, the dad would stop him. She suggests one of three new boys shares the tent with him at our overnight. I've got to think that with a tent zipper closed, another scout in the tent, this would eleviate the problem. Of course, I am still uncomfortable. I don't want to require a parent present, nor to require the old tent pitching arrangement. What say you?

Good processes, IM Kathy. In my Troop, however, the adults will either be too lenient or too demanding...not much in between. And, I'd like to keep the adults out of the loop.... Once you let some of them in, they will never get out (of the way). Bevah makes some excellent points. I like the long term, changing the troop culture approach. That is exactly the problem here. Things got lax over years; no teaching skills were taught, no accountability. This is going to take a little time and training. We have a number of older Scouts who are instructors. These guys, and the patrol leaders, need some counseling and experience. Time for a number of "Green Bar" outings.

I was a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout. Amazingly, my Cubmaster was a German immigrant, who fought in the German army during World War II (the Russian front, of all places). We had a great time, and I wasn't really aware of his service, until we took a Pack trip to Ft. Dix on Armed Forces Day. The Army had set up a tent with all kinds of helmets, including German helmets from World War II. My Cubmaster pointed out the one he used to wear, to my father, who was standing next to me. Kinda effected me when I played "army" with my friends, after that. I then moved on to Boy Scouts. I didn't realize it until I became an adult leader, but this troop did everything wrong. BUT, I had a great time! We didn't have much money, so we never went to summer camp (late 60's, early 70's), and Philmont was never, ever mentioned. We camped, monthly, on land near Narrowsburg, NY, which was owned by one of the Dad's in the Troop. The Dads stayed in the cabin, so we were truly "boy lead". Patrol leaders were never elected unless a PL was needed. The SPL was appointed by the Scoutmaster, for life. I was SPL for three years, and didn't think anything of it! I became an Eagle in 1976....earning all of my merit badges one at a time, visiting merit badge counselors in neighboring towns, "the hard way"...no summer camp. It was a great time and we had tremendous fun.

How can I, as Scoutmaster, confirm that a Scout has truly learned a skill, needed for advancement, and signed off by an older scout? I don't do this during the Scoutmaster Conference, because that is not the time. When is the time? The problem I am having is Scouts getting advancement, but when a particular skill is needed, it isn't there. For example, there was one time our SPL was trying to get the rope in our "rope bag" repaired. Only one Scout in twenty could remember how to whip a rope. This has been happening in all areas of scoutcraft, including first aid, etc. I am told that they will learn it when they are called upon to teach younger scouts. Sometimes. But this is the exception to the rule. I read those Scoutmaster's handbooks from the 1940's and I am amazed at what those Scouts were doing.....

As usual, anytime a group of folks starts talking about national issues, the "discussion" denigrates into, accusations, finger pointing, and back and forth statements like, "Well, (YOUR GUY) did such and such!" and "You mean like when (YOUR GUY) did this?" Here's a newsflash: BOTH sides have failed. Both sides have done things which deserve condemnation. BUT, how can we address what is happening RIGHT NOW, if we feel threatened by discussion and shut it down! We are, indeed, doomed, unless we stop acting like a bunch of high schoolers. Hey, the original question was "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO "OBOMA-PROOF" YOUR FUTURE?" I think we can agree that we are being legislated into very drastic changes. Government owned businesses (Yes, big George was part of this), incredible spending on nonsense (like millions to Acorn), incredible bailouts to corporations which should have been liquidated, and no way to pay for this but ruin the lives of future generations. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what "W" or Clinton, or Reagan did. I'm facing a government out of control, Right now. It defies the very principles of freedom and personal responsibility upon which our nation was founded. What am I going to do? Everything I can. I will earn less, and cut back spending, gladly. I will not have my money supporting these types of government activities and mores. I will have my representatives on speed dial, too. I will organize local, like-minded people to take on this nonsense....perhaps join the "tea party" movement. Above all, since all politics is local, I will be getting very involved in questioning candidates of both parties, and even some third parties. Most of all, I will diligently work, more than I have in the past, " to secure the benefits of liberty to" my children and our posterity.

As usual, anytime a group of folks starts talking about national issues, the "discussion" denigrates into, accusations, finger pointing, and back and forth statements like, "Well, (YOUR GUY) did such and such!" and "You mean like when (YOUR GUY) did this?" Here's a newsflash: BOTH sides have failed. Both sides have done things which deserve condemnation. BUT, how can we address what is happening RIGHT NOW, if we feel threatened by discussion and shut it down! We are, indeed, doomed, unless we stop acting like a bunch of high schoolers. Hey, the original question was "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO "OBOMA-PROOF" YOUR FUTURE?" I think we can agree that we are being legislated into very drastic changes. Government owned businesses (Yes, big George was part of this), incredible spending on nonsense (like millions to Acorn), incredible bailouts to corporations which should have been liquidated, and no way to pay for this but ruin the lives of future generations. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what "W" or Clinton, or Reagan did. I'm facing a government out of control, Right now. It defies the very principles of freedom and personal responsibility upon which our nation was founded. What am I going to do? Everything I can. I will earn less, and cut back spending, gladly. I will not have my money supporting these types of government activities and mores. I will have my representatives on speed dial, too. I will organize local, like-minded people to take on this nonsense....perhaps join the "tea party" movement. Above all, since all politics is local, I will be getting very involved in questioning candidates of both parties, and even some third parties. Most of all, I will diligently work, more than I have in the past, " to secure the benefits of liberty to" my children and our posterity.

As usual, anytime a group of folks starts talking about national issues, the "discussion" denigrates into, accusations, finger pointing, and back and forth statements like, "Well, (YOUR GUY) did such and such!" and "You mean like when (YOUR GUY) did this?" Here's a newsflash: BOTH sides have failed. Both sides have done things which deserve condemnation. BUT, how can we address what is happening RIGHT NOW, if we feel threatened by discussion and shut it down! We are, indeed, doomed, unless we stop acting like a bunch of high schoolers. Hey, the original question was "WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO "OBOMA-PROOF" YOUR FUTURE?" I think we can agree that we are being legislated into very drastic changes. Government owned businesses (Yes, big George was part of this), incredible spending on nonsense (like millions to Acorn), incredible bailouts to corporations which should have been liquidated, and no way to pay for this but ruin the lives of future generations. Frankly, I don't give a hoot what "W" or Clinton, or Reagan did. I'm facing a government out of control, Right now. It defies the very principles of freedom and personal responsibility upon which our nation was founded. What am I going to do? Everything I can. I will earn less, and cut back spending, gladly. I will not have my money supporting these types of government activities and mores. I will have my representatives on speed dial, too. I will organize local, like-minded people to take on this nonsense....perhaps join the "tea party" movement. Above all, since all politics is local, I will be getting very involved in questioning candidates of both parties, and even some third parties. Most of all, I will diligently work, more than I have in the past, " to secure the benefits of liberty to" my children and our posterity.

maryj, I'll give you an observation as a Scoutmaster, if that helps. I started having day hikes with second year Webelos and our Troop. Modest hikes. three miles, one part a little up hill. The up hill part was difficult for them...not me (late 40's). The kids would ask me to stop; they were out of breath...but not the adults. This struck me hard. It should have been the other way around. Now I offer two Webelos hikes a year, and encourage my Boy Scouts to join us. I have also issued "Scoutmaster Challenges" to the Troop patrols, to hike fifty miles in six months. The winning patrol gets the "50 Miler" patch. As they get better, I intend to lengthen the logged in miles. Food is pretty good in our troop. We do not allow any prepared meals. The Scouts are required to cook, with ingredients. Meals must be balanced. Our SPL reviews menus a week before any overnight to be sure. The lack of Exercise seems to be the big thing

Hello, Marineswife. Both spouses Cub leaders? That's how it started with me. Be careful. Someday you might find yourself as Cubmaster or Scoutmaster.:-)

Thank you all for the advice and, especially, for the encouragement. I will be buying those Green Bar Bill Scoutmaster Manuals, and redouble my efforts. I am going to have the Patrol Leaders hand out the badges of rank and merit badges to their members, at our Court of Honor on Monday. A little patrol pride building.

Hello Everyone. I have been viewing this site for some time, and thought I should jump in here and participate. I am a Scoutmaster of a Troop in NJ, which has emphasized "Boy Led" over the past few years. The problem is that the fire hasn't caught on. While some of the scouts seem to appreciate the boy run program, I can't seem to get many of the boy-leaders to do what they say they are going to do. We have PLC's which produce some good ideas, but the scouts assigned, don't follow through. The SPL can't shake them (I have seen this with the last four SPL's, so it's not the current SPL's issue). If the PL's DO something, then it is usually at the very last minute, and only the bare minimum is done. I am being told that there is some generational issue here. We seem to be the only program where there is no adult badgering them, setting goals and telling them what to do and how to do it. So, the scouts do not know how to respond to our boy-led thing. They don't even react to helpful criticism or encouragement. Unless an adult gives them a swift kick in the posterior, nothing will get done. Naturally, the boys complain that the meetings are boring. I can see why many of the local Troops are NOT boy led, but I don't want to go there. I would not be doing any good for the boys. Webelos parents know our reputation as being boy-led, and openly question us about its usefulness. Guess which troops the Webelos join? I'm at a cross-road here, and would appreciate any and all advice. Thank you all.