troutmaster

Green tabs; could that mean they finally remembered that the backing for service stars, and tabs on old style garters, are green for scouts? If so, does that mean the Venture tabs would go back to red, like the backings for senior program, and the old explorer tabs? Just wonder.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobgeier/BSA_newuniform.pdf

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobgeier/BSA_newuniform.pdf

While I hope the comments of fireworks and gas are said in jest, we need to be sure we do NOT use illegal and dangerous methods. Not only are we possibly breaking some laws, but we could be endangering scouts and leaders should something go awry. Not sure where an arrow with a flare attached, shot on cable comes in; it too could be in the above. But, if in the right setting, it can be really dramatic (assuming it is legal). Ceremonial methods using basic skills and natural tapers are always a good option. A cabin type lay built with properly positioned tinder beneath, will always light easily and quickly become a focal point. Just some thoughts and mho. (This message has been edited by troutmaster)

Not about TV, but responding to comment about sunburned knees. Reminded me of the 1960 Jambo. After returning, my legs looked like barber poles of brown stripes. I lived in the high desert of California, and played baseball in HS, and of course P.E., swimming and so on. We practiced ball in shorts and hats a lot, due to the warm weather late in the season. So, I had tan from swimming trunks and bare feet, short socks and shoes with gym shorts, scout/explorer shorts with shorter socks, and then the official long socks with garters and scout shorts at Colorado Springs. Really an odd look.

In our troop, at least my experience over the past 30 years, we counsel the family that the award presentation is their choice, but that the troop should be part of the ceremony, and should make every effort to include all the scouts. While there have been a few big todo's, most have been relatively traditional, drawing from bits and pieces of program publications and ECOH's the family has attended. The ones I have like the most are the ones that include the "Trail" and use scouts from the unit to represent each of those levels, and also use younger scouts to light candles representing Oath and Law. That being said, we had one boy who made it a point to have his as an extension of the regular troop COH. He told me he felt it was more representative of his experience. One scout, as happens, had his at Christmas break of his sophomore year of college. And another simply did not have one, and his mother said that he would get it if he chose to, but she would not take it. A year or so later, early in the summer, he showed up in his "hippy-esque" attire and asked if he could have his award packet. I got it out, and he then gave me a bunch of miscellaneous items he felt I might give to other scouts, and returned a couple of troop items he had borrowed at one time. We have had a few multiple presentations where families of Eagles who went through together chose to join forces. Our last one was a set of twins. Every one of the young people have different perspectives. The ones who are most confident, seem to be the ones who choose the simplest presentations. Some, only have done the bigger event to satisfy their parents; but they seem to all to have been proud of their accomplishment in their own way. We old people, of course, remember when fancy ECOH were pretty much unheard of. Mine was the second half of a troop COH, and was followed by a Palm presentation. The only thing different was that the presenter was the Marine Corp Commandant from the local base, and the town council was represented. When I first entered scouts, we had town courts of honor with all the units participating. They went up the ranks after merit badges and special awards, if any, then took a break, returning for Eagle and beyond if there were any. Ultimately, it is only important that the honor is offered, and that the young man's preference is considered. JMHO

Generally would want to use the same individuals if we could, due to their having made the original decision. Improvements easier to judge that way.

Lisa; You are to be complimented on having the backbone to deliver a rational verdict and not pass, if, as you indicate, there are some very strong issues of spirit/attitude. As pointed out, hopefully the SM will address this before it ever comes to the board, but sometimes they do not, for whatever reason. Personally, I have passed a few to the board, but with specific reservations which I have made known to them. They have generally addressed the reservations as fairly as possible, and rendered their verdict with options if it is a negative. Only once has it been challenged by a parent, but the boy was not allowed to slide. Fortuneately, he seemed to get the picture and overcame the incident. We never do a scout any favors when we do not hold them up to the higher expectation, especially as they progress above first class. There is a lot of evidence in the schools that "good feeling" advancement to the next grade, especially at the lower levels, often just makes the problems passed over worse at the next level. There is nothing wrong with holding a student back if they have not reached certain capabilities; nor is there anything wrong with similar action in a troop or other unit.

Not noted yet is the world renowned Koshare post/crew from La Junta, Colorado. These scouts are recognized by BSA and Native Americans for their authenticity and skill in portraying Native American ceremonies. The founder was honored more than once by Native American tribes for his dedication to the truth and solemnity of the dances and ceremonies. Here is a link if you care to look. http://www.koshare.org/dancers/

Funding would likely be fairly simple if it was spread out across the SC area between interested councils, scouts, scouters, and friends. Some of scouting's sponsor groups might even be interested, such as service clubs and so on. Would seem to me that teh San Gabriel Council should perhaps spearhead an effort, since it is the home of the parade. Keep us posted.

While watching the Rose Parade this morning, I could not help but wonder if there is a committee of some sort that has been gathered to explore entering a float celebrating the 100th anniversary of BSA in 2010; and possibly also a band of some type made from scouts from around the country. Now would certainly be the time to have this put in motion. Also, the NESA Eagle search would fit into something like this, with a few Distiguished Eagles perhaps honored on the float. I know that there are likely numerous Eagles who could plan and design floats, as there are many who attend prestigious engineering and art schools. No dearth of scouts and scouters to help decorate in Southern California either. Just a thought looking forward.

Do not know outside of our area, but many of our summer camps are now going to computerized printouts in duplicate to replace blue cards. They print out completed sheets and partial sheets which are given to the leadership at camp close. In our council, this caused a problem initially, as our registrar was not familiar with the process and balked. It took a bit of convincing to get the copies accepted, attached to the advancement report rather than separate cards for each scout. But frankly, the process is more efficient and makes review much easier at camp, as it is all in one place and can be secured in a file or notebook much more easily. Also, questions are more easily anwered after the fact, as the records are saved by the camp for easy access, rather than them having to dig through piles of cards. I hope to see this process in effect at all the camps soon, as it also allows preregistration for merit badges before coming to camp, which takes a lot of pressure off the first evening activities. The programs allow changes, but only by the leaders or the scout directly with the counselor, and only for the first couple of days. Also, leaders can go into on hand computers at some camps to check the accuracy of what their scouts say they are doing, and to check the troops records as well. Isn't technology great sometimes?

I have used Rank N File for a long time, but it has now become another victim of not knowing the right people in National. But it still is quite viable for most things. But, for advancement, standard form has always been the option, due to the need for accurate signatures and dates. I will then add in merit badges or use a printout after summer camp, crossing off already entered advancement entries. Works okay, other than the council folk ignoring the attachments on occasion. Now that R & F is defunct, and the on-line advancement is here, I will probably use it for some of this. The only rational way around the signature thing seems to be pre-entry and printout before the board; but then if a scout, for some reason did not complete it, it would be a problem. So, if you want immediate filing to recognize the scout advancement, then the paper copy seems the only avenue unless you are fortunate enough to have access immediately to programs in your meeting spot. The main thing is to make sure the records are accurate and complete, especially for the scout who needs dates and so on for Eagle app. JMHO

Once again, I have to ask why a boy is up for a BOR if the SM did not feel he had qualified in some way? The conference is where the decision is made, or should be regarding these issues. The SM should determine if Scout Spirit and leadership has been satisfied as part of his conference. If he feels there is need for growth, then he needs to not pass the boy on to the BOR yet. Higher ranks would normally put more emphasis on certain things and have higher expectation, IMHO. If the scout has been passed to the BOR, then the SM has apparently deemed him to be ready.

This past weekend I was privileged to be able to attend our lodge's annual Vigil honor weekend. While these events are always true rejuvenators of OA and scout spirit, this one was extra-special. A few years ago, our troop held a reunion family campout at the camp for past members of the troop, as well as current family. One of our earlier Eagles (1945)attended with his wife and renewed his camp involvement. He had served on staff in the war years and been one of the founding team for our lodge in 1944. But he had not been to the camp in over a quarter century, as he lived out of area. His reunion with the camp was dramatic, and he and his wife began a series of extensive major personal projects to improve the camp and honor past family scouters and friends. He also renewed his OA membership. This past weekend, at 80 years old, he officially completed his Vigil Ordeal, in cold temps, wind, and light rain. His example and dedication was noted by all, but appeared to especially inspire the youth members and younger adults. The Spirit of the Order is always apparent in our traditional pre-Vigil Circle. And his window on the past, with dedication and enthusiasm in the now, only reinforced this for us all. Events such as these are what keeps many of us involved, and certainly helps when we find ourselves feeling the occasional frustrations and doubts that can come up over time. Just wanted to share.

Just a slight detour in response to SVEA type stoves and cold. I discovered years ago that the issue was not the stove itself, but where I set it. I was having real trouble getting it to light due to it not presurizing. As those familiar know, you have to heat the stem or area below the nozzle to get the gas to vaporize from the liquid. Cold metal will make it far more difficult. Anyway, I finally moved it from the flat rock to two small sticks on the ground; it lit immediately. Since then I have carried a small square of old insolite to put beneath the stove. It lights fine every time. Have been told, but am not familiar directly, that white gas is far superior at high elevations. And now that fire paste and other similar products exist, the problem of putting fuel in the well at the stem is gone. They also now have the attachable bottle apparatus that can be used, which makes filling the main tank less necessary. On weekend trips, there would likely be little need to refill using these.

Some projects proposed will possibly have to be scratched, or parts of them, due to high risk factors. The early evaluation of the details by the leadership is important in that regard. Years ago, we had a major church property project proposed which included trimming of some really large trees. We opted to not approve that portion, due to the high risk and specific skill concerns. The scout found a related, but less likely to have injuries type project for the same church. Just because insurance might can be obtained, we really need to be cautious in this regard.

This is not a recent change, as we were aware of them over a year ago. It is important to read SCOUTING and to at least periodically review requirement books annually or on the internet. Also, whomever is in charge of "Meritbadge.com" is really fantastic about keeping it up to date. Service can only be counted for one thing or another, not both. Now I could see it overlapping service for a high school or some other organizations requirements. The point of the new requirements seems to me to be actually being involved in the community, not just knowing where things are, how the governance is done, and talking about how you are part of it. As a counselor, I find it much more focussed on the intent of the scout being a community citizen. As a leader, as well as counselor, I expect my scouts to do the most current requirements if they have not already begun under others; and that is NOT when they get a card. By the way, I DO NOT counsel any of my own scouts on Eagle badges, other than camping. They are required to go to at least two different citizenship counselors. Part of the merit badge program is to help scouts meet adults outside of their normal environment. As far a sequence goes, that is totally up to the scout. He can earn them in any order he chooses. As always, this is simply my view.

Sounds as if it is Wildlife Management from the 50's and 60's. Without a photo, cannot be certain. Good luck.

Just received this message from a scouter friend; CIEC has lost Camp Helendade to the Running Springs fire. I helped build the camp in 1961 and did two OA ordeals there. Was hoping to get up to visit it one of these days. Very sad news. Other camps are in danger as well. http://www.bsa-ciec.org/openrosters/vieworgpagelink.asp?orgkey=21&linkkey=15211

Thank you for your thoughts from the East. So far, I personally have not been threatened directly, though ash is falling still (less today) and the air is nasty. But, south and east from here, less than 50 miles, is critical. Last year we came really close to losing our scout camp to the Day Fire. It ended up being the staging area for that part of the fire, and helped feed and give resources for the fight, mainly the reservoir. This year, they would be unable to do that, as the drought has taken the reservoir, and we are looking at possibly having no camp at all if the aquafir does not replenish. We will not be able to pump water for camp use. This time, I fear we may see a number of camps in the Arrowhead and San Diego areas damaged or worse. I have been mulling what, if anything, we could do here as a scouting community should we have the fires move to directly affect us. Hopefully that contngency will not occur. So, thank you for your concerns, prayers, and good thoughts.

Maybe would be the time to consider an updated dog-tag device that would have the chip, and other pertinent info. If it still works for the military, it should work for us. As far as uniforms go, it needs to be relevent, but practical. The idea that insignia is not needed, or that recognition is silly strikes me as falling prey to the PC people a bit. Yet, there are likely some areas that certainly could be streamlined or made less off putting. Most of these areas fall in the "scouter" realm. We of course have the old timers like myself that constantly weigh the pro's and con's of wearing earned and recongnized awards. Do we wear what them all, or do we select the most prideful ones, or do we go to none? I have found that younger scouts and cubs tend to find the square-knots fascinating, and always want to know what they are and how they can get them. But, at the same time, we need to adhere to uniform policies and not wear superfluous items, such as the noted lines of quality unit patches, patches where they are not supposed to be worn or are not authorized, and keep our uniforms clean and properly sized. If we get too big, we need to either lose the weight or get the next larger size. I have one formal uniform, and a couple of older service types. The formal one is for official COH's or council events that require uniforms. The others have far fewer patches on them. Years ago, when I first became a SM, I did not wear earned/awarded items to an official COH, under the idea that I did not wish to detract from the boys' recognition. My PLC came to me afterwards and informed me that if I did not see the need to wear them, why should the scouts. So, now I do, though seldom ever the medals other than Eagle or religious ones at the related functions. Just one perspective.

An interesting observation, and one that I, as an over 60 scouter have found myself thinking at times. Why is it that, even with the addition of a project, which was not required until 1965 or so, is the percentage of Eagles so much greater than way back? Is it easier, or is the focus in the wrong place in many troops? Then I sit on another BOR for Eagle, and the young man shows us more often than not that, yes, they do reflect the ideals of the mission. Now, whether or not some can still tie a bowline, or orient a map, we do not ask. Hopefully they can. But the skills are simply a tool, and not the goal in the end. And I find that many have no idea that there are related perks to holding the badge. Do some fall short? Perhaps they do not shine quite so brightly, but they met the basic requirements. Do some not ever reach the board? Still far more than do; yet many will look back in later years with fond memories and even realization that they indeed were made better individuals by the time spent. I have been privileged to have a fairly good number of Eagles under my tenure; but I have had many more simply "good scouts" who stayed through high school to help younger scouts and be outdoors in the program we offer. Can we do better? Surely; that is always the case. Should we focus more on the purpose and less on Eagle. Some troops likely should; but most simply use it as one more carrot in the greater game. JMHO

Clarification here; I know the requirement is met as written. I guess what I am asking is more of an opinion of the real intent of the requirements of "be active for six months as a Life" and hold POR for six months. Should we expect a candidate to have the two done concurrent with each other, and close to the time he applies for his final approvals? What does active really mean? Should the lack of any active participation for two or three years affect the leader''s approval, or should he be expected to show the activity and leadership more currently? Guess it really is a question of interpretation. Do we perhaps lower the bar by not holding higher expectations or stricter interpretation?

As an extension of this earlier discussion; what about huge gaps in the time since the leadership occurred? A boy held the positions, then was totally inactive for two years, then came back and did the fairly typical crash course in getting it done just prior to 18. Should the scout really be doing this leadership current with his advancement effort, or is it okay to have these kind of gaps? Strength of the leadership is really what I wonder about. I have reiterated this question, as it did not get any response as part of the original thread.