Trevorum

The Boulder Dam Area Council has apparently been renamed Las Vegas Area Council. Do we have anyone from this council? When did this happen? The website (http://www.lvacbsa.org/index.html) says nothing about the name change and still features the old CSP

LPC, I'm not sure to whom your comments are directed, but since I was the one who created the original subject line, please let me apologize for using the word "mainstream". I should have said "multi-faith" units. As I said above, I see nothing wrong with any CO or their unit modifying the methods to suit the particular needs and circumstances of their youth members (with approval of the SE). The success of LDS units reinforces my belief.

This weekend, we are doing SemperParatus's 'Shoebox Campout' in which all equipment (shelter, bedding, food, everything) has to fit into a regular shoebox. Needless to say, no one will be bringing tents! The boys will bring their own materials for a survival shelter, including simple plastic sheeting and line. Plastic is cheap, compact, and light; I'd suggest at least an 8x10 piece per person if you want to make a tube tent.

Now as I've said before, I'm not familiar with the LDS at all, but from reading the explanations from tortdog and LPC_Thumper, it seems to me that LDS chartering orgs have "tweaked" the program (to use OGE's term) to serve their own purposes. And as I've said in several other threads on the "methods", I think that is absolutely OK. It is clear that LDS units significantly modify ("tweak") the outdoor method for 11 year olds. Where most other units will have these fellows camping for up to 11 weekends plus a long term camp in their first year, LDS restricts them to 3 overnighters. Similarly, LDS units significantly modify the patrol method. Boys do not hang with the same natural group throughout, but they are assigned to "age cohorts" (my term), whoose membership changes on a monthly basis as some fellows age in and others age out. Again, LDS units seem to significantly modify the leadership method. 15 and 16 year olds are not available to be PLs, ASPLs, or SPL to the 11, 12 and 13 year olds because they have graduated with their age cohort into the Varsity Team and/or Venture Crew. But all that tweaking is OK, because it is done for a specific purpose and in response to specific needs of the boys. BSA has wisely allowed flexibility in delivering the program to LDS youth.

Bob, I think you've misunderstood what I tried to say. I did not mean to suggest that an invited speaker refrain from using the prayers of their faith. What I was trying to point out was that an invited speaker should not "preach" to a captive audience of mixed faiths. I feel that is inconsiderate. BSA Chaplain, mea culpa ... point taken!

I hope so. I've got it marked on my calendar, but that can change fairly quickly for me!

BSA_ldr, thanks for your sacrifices. Very glad you made it back home. Yes, it sounds like the junior leaders need a crash refresher course in JLT. And the SM should bring them up short for discourtesy. That should never be tolerated. But it sounds like the SM needs a crash refresher also. I see your problem...

In reviewing the online Guide to Safe Scouting, I was stunned to discover that horse treks are not considered age-appropriate activities for Boy Scouts. (http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf) wow. This is certainly news to me. Comments?

ManyIrons, yes, sorry for the confusion!

Fred - you're driving? Darn, I'd offer to share gas expenses if I could get a refund on my ticket! My understanding is that everyone gets some sort of transportation letter, confirming their mode and date of arrival, for security reasons. I haven't seen naything yet (but then, I just got my patches yesterday!).

Several years ago we had a quintuple ceremony. These five fellows had grown up together, through Cubs all the way to Eagle. All of them wanted to share their special day with their buds. It was way cool.

Hunt, that is precisely the situation where I am, and I wish that our scouts could work with adults not in own own troop. Back when I was a Scout, most of my MBs counselors were "cold calls" made from a council (or maybe district) supplied master list of MB counselors. Meeting those men was a great experience for me, but in retrospect those one-on-one meetings were in gross violation of (then non-existant) Youth Protection policies. I still remember getting a creepy feeling from my Personal Fitness counselor when I had to take off my shirt and do push-ups. I have since wondered how many Scouts were molested by MB counselors. When my sons were Cubs and before we joined a troop, I tried to sign up as a MB counselor with our Council, but they looked at me funny and said that each troop maintains their own lists. Later, when I was active on the district committee, there were some noises made about compiling a district wide list of approved sounselors, but nothing ever happened with that. I, too, wonder if there are districts or councils out there who do it the old-fashioned way and encourage "cold-calls" (with Scouts using the buddy system of course).

Torri, This reminds me of a certain newly-minted Life Scout who was sent to the principal's office last month for spontaneously turning a cartwheel in the hallway after getting an 'A' on an especially tough test ...

ManyIrons asks: "Q. How do you tell a preacher not to preach?" You don't of course. He/she is probably there precisely because of his/her calling. However, you certainly can remind them, tactfully, that you have scouts from many different faiths in your troop and that references to specific articles of religious dogma might be inappropriate. Most people will be very considerate of a captive audience. It's just a matter of conciousness-raising On another subject: Fred, have you gotten your transportation confirmation letter yet from the Jambo?

EagleInKY, I am wondering what is an "extreme boy-lead" troop? and that is bad how? BSA_ldr, welcome to the forums! As an experienced Scouter, we hope you'll stick around and join the campfire! But I have the same question for you: other than his obvious discourtesy, what was wrong with the SPL taking control of the meeting you mentioned and asking the adult to sit down? Not witnessing either of the two troops in question, I am not questioning your judgement; however, I am sure there must be more to your stories than just too much boy-led.

amouse, I have some extra patches and would be happy to donate some to prime the pump for your troop. I'll send you an email off-line; please have your Scoutmaster contact me and I'll send them to him/her.

Are you looking for patches to wear on your uniform (rank, position, etc.) or miscellaneous patches for trading?

Terry, I think a forum BY and FOR Scouts is a great idea and I encourage you to pursue the experiment. While a private forum certainly has appeal, I would be interested in reading what Scouts have to say without the interferance of adults. Their thoughts and concerns could be extremely valuable to us as adult leaders. Such a forum would need to be prominently labeled "YOUTH ONLY" or something similar and it would require a moderator to remind the occasional adult stray.

Some speakers are boring. Period. The most you can do is (1) provide scripts and/or (2) ask extemporaneous speakers to keep their remarks under 5 minutes. The sermonizing part is another issue. I too have witnessed speakers taking the opportunity to lecture/preach religion to a captive audience. It's offensive to many and is completely inappropriate. Whenever guests are invited to give invocations at scout activities, and whenever religious leaders are asked to speak at scout functions, if the audience is multi-faith then the Master of Ceremonies should remind the speaker in advance that the invocation/comments should be non-sectarian. It's common courtesy.

Pack, good points. I guess I just assumed that they were "mentally awake" and "trustworthy", but still intolerant.

Prairie, "Miracles" are just "magic", but with better PR...

That's easy. They're homophobic.

Bob, That's an excellent point! And another Scouting myth. In practice, most Eagle project finances are bare bones for materials only and do not include a labor budget. Labor is generally donated. However, there is no reason why a well financed project could not include paid labor as well.

I would ask the committee member who believes that ONLY Scouts and scouters may participate on Eagle projects to show YOU where that is written. He won't be able to find any policy, guideline, rule, or regulation from BSA National that supports his position. Another Scouting myth.

I assume you're referring to the "morally straight" part of the Oath and the "Clean" part of the Law. To take this thought process one more logical step, what about the "physically strong" part of the Oath? We've talked about this elsewhere. Does purposefully inhaling carcinogenic smoke violate the "physically strong" part of the Oath? How about drinking a known bio-toxin (alcohol)? Doesn't that violate the Scout Oath? How about vountarily subjecting oneself to daily hours of mind-numbing garbage on TV? Doesn't that violate the "mentally awake" part? The point is that this slope is exceedingly slippery - as we have discussed ad nasueum in the "What would you do?" thread...