Trevorum

Thank you NJ, that is where I was going with my ammendment. A Scouter's personal politics as well as his/her sexuality should be invisible within a Scouting setting. But youth are naturally curious about these adult issues, and discussions will inevitably arise. We should be able to answer their questions about these subjects without bringing our personal redness or blueness into play. I've never asked, but I suspect that some of my very best buddies in the troop are red (not that there's anything wrong with that...)

darn. I was hoping they'd all line up so I could see the group take potshots at 'em! whoever you are, thanks for donating another "one hour per week"!

owl, I've never heard of this practice and I'm not sure I think it's appropriate for a Scouting flag. On the other hand, I don't think I'd argue with someone who felt strongly in favor of the stars.

bbng, you're absolutely right. I had forgotten that and my statement was too broad. Let me ammend that to say that in Scouting, discussions of sexuality have the same place as discussions of politics.

Karkaghne - Welcome to the forums. I can tell you're the kind that doesn't hesitate jumping right into the deep end! (Rooster, good to see you back, old fellow! How's your troop doing?) You're right that sexuality, and discussions of sexuality, have no place in Scouting. Therefor, a ban on one type of sexuality or another makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that redheads are not welcome in Scouting because, um... um... because they have fiery natures and are more prone to violence (yeah, that'll work...). Plus, some of them are known to be Irish! The point is that neither sexuality nor hair color has anything to do with Scouting, unless you sneakily go back and re-interpret the "morally straight" clause to refer to sex or violence.

Our pack presents all of the Web I's with their felt brag vests at an end of the year 'graduation' ceremony in May. At the same ceremony, the Tigers get yellow neckerchiefs and a Wolf book, the Wolves get a blue necker and the bear book, and the Bears get the plaid necker and a Webelos book. The pack pays for everything (including orange neckers and Tiger books for all new recruits in the Fall) from the planned budget.

OGE, I'm sorry to learn of your decision, but understand. Your cheerful service has been helpful and much appreciated. Our forums are a better place because of you. Please accept my sincere thanks for your constant vigilance and assistance.

FScouter, sorry. Your're right, two deep was not required for the MB class. I was focusing on the isolated night class aspect of it.

Well, there's more than one planet up there. Were you expecting just one counselor to handle them ALL??? (Not to mention all those comets and other stuff...) The staff should have ensured 2-deep.

Remember that the 2-deep rule is there to protect both the Scout (from abuse) as well as the leader (from unfair accusations). Because it was night, the scout definitely needed a buddy. Yes this was a violation. You should have asked another scout to consider taking the MB or another adult to accompany you both. Or, the two of you could have accompanied him to another campsite where he could hook up with some other scout who was taking the course. The camp staff should have been willing to set this up. IMHO, failing either of those options, the Scout could not have taken the MB. Period. Of course, the bigger issue is WHAT was the camp staff thinking when they allowed just ONE counselor to offer this at night?????

OK, thanks guys!

SMT376, can you please clarify? My reading of G2SS does not support your statement that troops can not spelunk. The G2SS (http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss09.html#b) says, "All caving, other than simple novice activities, should be limited to adults and young people 14 and older..." . There are lots of safety considerations, but the bottom line is that troops can indeed do "wild cave" spelunking.

Isn't Unami a kind of sushi? With that kind of lodge name, you guys will never get to be #1!

Our guys LOVE caving! We try to do it every year. There are lots of good places in your region, including Mammoth Cave Nat'l Park and commrcial sites. Hook up with your local speleological society (see http://bluegrassgrotto.org/ovr.html or www.caves.org) and maybe subscribe to a caving listserv for more info.

Absolutely! I love the new technology that is available to Scouting these days! Right at the top of my list is Gore-tex, followed by fiberglass tent poles. Internal frame packs are far superior to the yucca pack, and my Tyvek® rainsuit beats my old poncho, hands down! The water purifiers that are available are superior to Halazone tablets I used long ago and the new hydration systems are so much better than metal canteens.

There are some really good histories of the various BSA quality programs. (for an example, see http://users.aol.com/randywoo/quality/evolution.htm) Your case sure sounds like abuse of the program by the executive. I was not aware that executives are judged by the percentage of their units that make the grade. It makes sense if you are their supervisor, but none at all if you are actually delivering the program. If I was going to create from scratch a Quality Unit program, I would craft it around the eight methods: Ideals Patrols Outdoors Advancement Personal growth Adult association Leadership development Uniform Some of the current Quality Unit requirements relate to some of these methods of Scouting (like #3 outdoor activities; #7 Advancement; #10 Patrol Method), but others are purely management controls (like #4 On-time charter renewal; #8 Boy's Life; and especially #9 membership). Those last don't help the unit at all and in no way assure that the unit is delivering a quality program.

OakTree, My somewhat tongue-in-cheek post was copied (but slightly edited) straight from the message I get when the "user-who-shall-not-be-named" posts to a thread. I believe that the forum ratings are a feature which is no longer activated (ie., those thumbs up and thumbs down icons), although I could well be mistaken (as is frequently pointed out to me )

Well... it was tasteless and probably doesn't belong here, but the same could be said for a lot of posts I've seen on these forums. The very interesting thing about it however, is the underlying premise that makes it funny: morality is relative -- what's OK here is not OK there, and vice-versa.

At our last meeting, a Scout asked me some general questions about planning his Eagle project. I was a bit surprised because he is just recently Star! While commending him on his enthusiasm, I cautioned him that he can not start working on the project until after he becomes Life. Now I am wondering if I may have squelched him. So, what (if anything) CAN a Scout do before he becomes Life? He can certainly think about a project and come up with ideas. I imagine he could also talk to people and get some feedback on those ideas. Can he meet with the benefiting group's representative to propose and "reserve" his idea? Without putting anything into action, how much planning would be allowed? The workbook says, "You must be a Life Scout before you begin an Eagle Scout leadership service project." Admittedly, I don't think this is a common situation, but it is in one of those grey areas. What constitutes "beginning"?

ewww... keep your stinky socks away from me!

This is the second such case in six months, isn't it? I think it is more common that anyone wants to admit, and it sorta reminds me of the recent scandal endured by the Church, before a decision was made at the top to commit to real change. As opposed to Scouting, I think it's clear that BSA, Inc. has been infected by some of the less savory "values" we see in our society today. It's especially ironic, given our self-proclaimed moral high ground, but BSA, Inc. is qualitatively no different than Enron. As long as there is money involved (and especially careers), some people will lie and cheat. Even if they know better and even if they have promised not to.

We did seem to be talking past one another a lot... However, I thought Kudu did an excellent job of keeping to the posted topic of communism and weapons dealing in Scouting. He actually made me want to go see that film about the fall of the Berlin wall! (btw, I wear the sox ...)

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I've always thought that the parents of Eagle Scouts were the logical pool for district volunteers. Many of these folks were probably very active in their son's troop and some may desire to continue a relationship with Scouting.

Ed, what do you mean?