trainerlady

I was not at this camp due to family needs at home. I have talked to several scouts on the trip and they all confirm what follows from my son. My son came home from a weekend campout at a local scout camp with cabins and told us some very worrisome things that went on at camp. It seems one of our 17 year old (Eagle project away from Eagle) scouts was having "a bad weekend" to say the least. Even taking my son's flare for story telling into account, the events at camp are still worrisome. Event 1 - 17 starts the camp by bringing 20+ pocketknives to camp and sat in his bunk throwing them into the finished drywall wall at the foot of his bed and then moved to throwing them across the room into the walls. Leaders took away the knives. 17 repairs the walls with toothpaste. Event 2 - 17 stays up most of the night. Bedtime/lights out/stay in your bunk except to go to the bathroom time was 11:00 PM. About 1:00 AM 17 starts duct taping mouths of sleeping scouts. Some wake up and scream others just take the tape off in their sleep. 17 also duct tapes a couple of boys into their bunks (one is a first time camper, first time overnight without a parent, new scout). He then ties my son to his bunk with ropes. My son sleeps VERY soundly, and wears earplugs to help him fall asleep in a noisy cabin. 17 knows he sleeps through just about anything (son has been in the troop for just over a year now). Screaming boys = a leader coming to the towards boys bunk room and telling them to shut up and go to sleep. No lights are turned on leader didn't go into room to find out what the commotion was all about. Just yells from kitchen area of cabin. Event 3 - 17 leads a bunch of new crossovers out onto very thin ice to fetch a football he kicked out there. Event 4- 17 pours water down a scout's back while in the mess line for dinner on night 2. When the scout asked him why he did that 17 pops the scout in the chin in front of everyone in the cabin. (my son) Event 5 - 17 throws lemondae into the face of the SM's son outside after dinner. He deliberately took a full cup of lemonade outside and doused the other boy. 17's Mom was called at some point during the day and told to come get him. It took her until after dinner to get the hour or so from home to pick him up. Don't know when she was called, but it was reported by several scouts at the campout that she was called multiple time. So at what point would have sent 17 home? Would you have confined 17 to his bunk or somewhere else while waiting for Mom? What would you have done with 17? My husband and I are having a meeting with the SM and CC tonight about the events of the weekend. I emailed them on the afternoon the boys came home about my concerns. The SM and CC met with the ASMs and fathers in attendence at camp the night of the email to discuss the situation. It will be interesting to see what comes of these events. Not sure if I want son going camping again with the troop if 17 is going to be there. My son doesn't HATE anyone, but he has said several times over the last year that he HATES 17. They are in the same patrol too. Any other advice? Changing troops isn't really an option.

Maybe I missed the answer to this question or maybe it wasn't discussed yet. Did each boy's father sign his own son's book or did another father in the group sign the book? The reason I ask is if Billy's Dad signed Bobby's book and Bobby's Dad signed Joe's book and Joe's Dad signed Billy's book then what's the fuss about. Tram you said it was a group of familes that went camping together, so as long as no father signed his own kid's book what's the fuss? I sign books for kids that go to my kids' school regularly. They come over to play and ask "Mrs. TL I can tie a bowline.Look." or we swim together at the Y and a boy will say "Mrs. TL watch me swim the BSA swim test." I'll tell the boys to bring me their books at the next meeting and I'll sign off the requirements, I'm a ASM with signing rights in our troop. I WILL NOT (emphasis)not sign for kids in other troops, but I'll drop a note to the SM via email that one of his kids did "X" for me, especially swimming/water related skills. Most troops in our area don't have regular swim nights in their schedules, they use summer camp for water skills. It's up to the home troop SM to decided on the sign off. The above situations are examples of a Scout doing it on their own. Being a self-starter is a good thing in life. Foster it don't squash it.

My daughter does a Lone Scouting program through Girl Guides of Canada. She is a dual US/Canadian citzen and is eligible to do both GSUSA and GGC. She has chosen to do both. The prgrams are very different and complement each well. What GGC does that the BSA doesn't seem to do is have Lone Scouters that work with the Lones. They review all work and decide if it meets the standards. If everything meets the standards the kids get their advancements. If it doesn't then they guide the Scout in what needs to be finished to get advancement. My daughter's leader is 300 miles away. They communicate through emails, phone and snail mail. There are several "internet camps" and internet chats each year. An internet camp is when all the registrants receive an agenda of events, a packet of supllies needed for activities and a copy of the food menu for the event. They are given a secure website to log into and everyone interacts via the web during the event. During the last event a leader built a large campfire in her backyard and lead a cyber campfire. The kids got s'mores fixings in their camp kit the week before the event. Not as good as a real campout, but she had cyber tentmates from every Canadian province and the Yukon Territory in attendance. A neat event in its own right. So where am I going with this - The BSA needs to put some oversight into the Lone Scout program. There needs to be an advisor that oversees the Scout's advancement and makes sure that requirements are in fact being done, not just Mommy saying Junior did it. The advisor would do the SMC and set up a BOR whether in person or via phone/Skype/web. Having Mommy or Daddy being the advisor at CS level is fine. If the boy in going on to BS then he needs an appointed advisor not an Akela. This especially true for anything above FC. JMHO. I'm a firm believer in Lones, but it needs more oversight from the BSA and Councils. Its too easy to skirt the guidelines and create paper Eagles with no skills under the current Lone Scout program.

Lisabob, I guess I'm just lucky the women's cut pants fit me well and they fit several of my frineds very well too. Are you wearing a women's pant or a man's pant? When the only thing available was a man's pant they were a crumby fit and wore out in the crouch every six months (I wore my uniform in those days 40-60 hours a week due to work). I got 2+ years out of what we affectionately called Lady pants in my former National Supply store. Now with that said I don't care for the cargo pockets on my already large thighs, but that is a style issue not the fit issue you ask about. The only altering any of us here in the great white north (not so white this year)have needed is to shorten them. The canvas pants also fit a million times better than the nylon one too. The nylon ones are tents on just about everyone, man, woman or child. Nylons now come in a women's cut too. Those fit better than the old men's ones or the original switchback women's one. Good Luck

Thanks Schiff.

Schiff, FUD, please define, it is an acronym I don't recognize. Sorry for not being in the know.

In my home council we have 4 camps. 2 are within a 60-90 minute drive of just about everyone in the council. The other 2 are BS summer camps with minimal winter suitable facilities. They are 3-4 hours from home. One local camp has a couple of cabins, BB and archery ranges that aren't staffed (BYORO)to use them and some playing fields. This camp has a few tent sites with latrines. Not much there, on a small piece of property in the middle of a lakefront sub-division. This camp hasn't had any active summer programs since we merged with another council a few years ago. At the main camp, campers can rent the rifle/shotgun/BB/archery ranges in 2 hour increments. The ranges come with a certified range officer. Horseback trail rides or CS corale rides are available and the climbing tower is available for rental with instructors with prior arrangements. This camp has what the council says is the "laregest indoor camping program in the countrty". It has about 30 cabins with electricity and heat. Sizes range from 12 beds to 60 beds. Some have running water, toilets and showers. All have a latrine and a frost free well outside. My council charges anywhere from $50 for a campsite with a laterine and frost free well and no other improvements to $720 for a sleeps 60, heat/water/showers/toilets/full kitchen cabin. All campsites are a flat $50 per weekend. So depending on the size of the group the cost varies. Cabins run between $11-$16 per bed (depending on level of improvement), but you must pay for all the beds in the cabin not just the ones you fill. There are 2 comfort stations in the camp available to all campers on weekends. You can rent the dining hall and other buildings for a fee, but they are ususally only used for district/coucnil events in the off seasons.

Boomerscout, Don't know where you got your information about D-A being closed, but that is FAR from the truth. It will not hold a BS summer camp this summer but it will house several weeks of CS and WS summer camps, family camps and specialty camps. It will have Trail to Eagle, NYLT, Yucca Trail, and Ranch Hand and I believe that at least one of the WB classes is scheduled there too. Summer camps in GLC are being cut by a week at each Lost Lake and Cole Canoe Base. The rationale for cutting BS summer camp at D-A is only a handful of units had signed up for camp by a given date. Although every scout deserves/should go to summer camp staffing a camp for a handful of units is just not feasible. If memory serves there were 6-8 units and under 200 total people signed up for the originally scheduled weeks of BS camp. D-A will also be open for units to summer weekend or do it yourself summer camp at. For the entire time I've been in Scouting (granted not long - 6 years) summer numbers at D-A for BS camp have fallen. With doing away with BS camp this year the camping department can focus on getting CS and their families to camp. Historically less than 5% of the CS in GLC (and old DAC and CVC) went to summer camp. Only a couple hundred out of the over 7,000 possible kids. Tap the future BS and hook them on camping. Or face the sale of a property or 2 at some time in the future like the GS in the area have faced.

One thing to remember about budgeting for large events/trainings is that you have to break even with a small number of attendees. I have have run a couple of larger events in my district over the last couple of years and know that this is the case. We had to set a break even point and figure out how many bodies it would take before an event was OKd. If the numbers weren't reached by the cut off point the event was cancelled. Our only profits came when more than the break even point was achieved. One year's CS klondike had sub zero winds chills and a blizzard, the next year was sunny, warm (for a northern tier state) and a nice layer of week old snow. Year one we had our quota to run, turn out was awful and we just scraped by. The next year we had walk-ins up the ying-yang. Walk-ins paid a premium for walking in on top of the regular fee. We made a bundle on the event that year. Didn't get to keep it for the next "rainy day" event though. Council got it and complained the next year when they didn't get a bundle again after another bad weather year. Budgets, at least around here, have to set for a minimum number of attendees to make ends meet. However, if you max out your event capacity making a profit isn't out of the question. I just would like control over where that profit went. In some cases I'd like to see all participants get a buck or two back (when logistically possible), in other cases let the event keep the money for future use at that event. A reasonable profit from a day camp or camporee can be invested in next year's event - lower registration fees, a new piece of equipment for the event, secure a deposit, etc. Maybe give a couple of bucks back to your volunteers if they bought stuff for their portion of the event or give them a rebate on their fees for attending. Personally I don't mind paying a small fee to volunteer. I'll pay for my food and accomodations.

I'm with Calico. My 11 yr. old and 6 of his friends (all 11 y.o.) in the troop don't have their own cell phones. No way is he taking mine with him for a weekend at camp. Its my work phone. 2 of the parents don't have texting on their phones at all, they're strictly for emergency use, pay as you go phones. We have pay as you go texting. Don't need a huge bill for some game that can work with a paper and pencil. If a cell phone for an 11 year old was required to take part in a camporee event then my son WOULDN'T GO (yes I was yelling). I/we (my husband and I) won't buy cell phones for our kids until they drive independantly. It wouldn't be fair to my son to go to an event and not be able to take part in every activity. Have fun with your Facebook page, but keep it secure and invite only. Have a general public area with event info, date etc. But have a secure area that a scout or scouter muct apply to be part of with your games. Keep the kids safe. Again my kids don't get to play on Facebook and neither do most of their friends. If they want to talk about something they call each other or walk down the block to a friends house. Unlike their 20 something cousins, they can talk to each other not sit side by side texting a conversation. IMHO, You're on a VERY slippery slope here. Be careful is all I can say. There is a HUGE potential for a blacklash from parents, especially those of us with younger kids in units.

A GS uniform consists of a vest or badge sash over whatever they are wearing. You used to be able to get skirts, shirts, blouses, pants, and socks. Now they've pretty much disappeared. A vest runs $15-$25 and a sash runs $7-$10 depending on size. They have some "official" shirts but they aren't uniforms like the BSA or Scouts Canada or Girl Guides of Canada. GS are told to wear a white t-shirt/polo and tan pants/skirt to be in full uniform. Any white shirt and tan pants will do. My daughter got one of the last uniform polo shirts GSUSA had for sale 2 years ago. Most units don't care what the girls wear as long as it is school appropriate.

KC, Canada runs a WB program. Don't know much about it but i do know that it is in 3 parts. Parts 1 and 2 are like our "This is scouting" and Leader Specific trainings for each position. Parts 1 & 2 are required within the first couple of months of being registered as a leader. Part 3 is truly optional. Scouts Canada is more outdoor based too. They require outdoor experiences for every level. No outdoors, no advancement. That's about all I can input.

Oaktree, Thanks for posting the requirements for everyone to share. I had a power failure for most of the day today. Just got the power back on. It was a very nice of you to do it. Thanks, TL

BH, Will try to get them up this weekend. Finishing off my UoS paper for tomorrow AM. After UoS we have an NHL game with the council. Will do my best for you this weekend.

Hubby is the first registered MBC in our district for welding. He is planning to start working on the badge with son and a couple of his friends in the next couple of weeks. It'll take the kids a while to get it done. So it'll be officially released by the time they are done. Go forth and weld.

E61, To the best of my knowledge the military never took care of the Scouts while at Fort A P Hill. There has always been a full contingent of medical staff at jamborees. Here is the link to the flier my council put out from the national office seeking volunteers. These folks will not be paid, and in fact have to pay a volunteer fee to attend the jamboree. http://www.glcscouting.org/jamboree/pdf/JamboMedStaff.pdf On the flier is a list of names and contacts for each department.

The requirements are out! I picked up a copy of the 2012 Requirements book today and there on page 220 are the welding MB requirements. Weld on!

Ann, Approximately 75% of all grade four Webelos will drop out of Scouting by grade 6 (national average I learend at Philmont TC). There are several factors that cause this drop out - sports, school changes (more homework), and BOREDOM with scouts. Boys that have been in the program since TC year wan to do something different and more advanced by Webelos year. They can only stomach so mant PWD, raingutter regattas and hooky Christmas parties. Even first timers at Webelos level find more than one PWD a bore. I learned at PTC, followed and recommend getting your Webelos to the BS program as fast as you can. Work on activity pins at a swift rate. The difference between a 4th grader's social calander and that of a 5th grader is night and day. As a 3rd grade parent you probably don't realize the opporutinites your son can take part in just a little over 18 months from now. Travel youth sports that require several days a week of practice, school clubs, band, school sports, religious ed classes that meet 1-2 nights a week in grade 5. The list goes on. Do pins in the den as outlined in the Cub Scout 2010 program, but also use local museums, rec centers and troops to get more pins done as field trips. Sneak an extra pin in every month or 2 and you'll have 20 pins in no time. Why rush you ask? Rushing/pushing/moving swiftly lets you spend the grade 5 portion of Webelos investigating troops in your area. It lets you do troop outdoor activites with the troop you like. It lets you visit a troop 2/3/6 times before you and your den make a decision as to which troop(s) youare going to. It helps insure a good fit for the boys with a troop. And yes not every boy has to go to the same troop. It is OK to split up. You should be doing the BS Oath/Law and Outdoor Code as part of every den meeting. That's what most of us in BS do to start every meeting. Why? It is asked in every Scoutmaster conference and Board of Review your boys will take part in during their BS career. Perfect practice makes perfect. Besides it is a requirement of both the Webelos badge and AoL. Webelos aren't mini scouts nor are they cub scouts. If I could redesign the whole program I'd put Webelos, Aol, and BS Scout and Tenderfoot together as a 3 continum program that functioned as its own unit. Camping would progress from Cub style day camps to a full week BS camp by the end of the third year. But that won't happen. You can do your best to move the boys to BS as quickly as THEY can handle. You'd be surprised what THEY can handle. Final thought, Webelos is as much about preparing the PARENTS for their new role in BS as it is about preaping the Webelos for their new experiences in BS. Parents and DLs need to learn to back off, give the boys their space and expect the boy to live up to the new standards they will face. Less hand holding, more controlled failures. In other words, parents need to learn to cut the apron strings a bit (maybe not all the wat through) in Webelos. But this doesn't have to mean less fun!

Just finished off a 560 scout Merit Badge University today. About 400 BS, 160 Webelos. The event was a smash. Instructors were all adults average age was 40 years old, average years teaching thier badge was close to 10 years (except for newer badges). Far superior to any summer camp around my parts. Instructors were informed to turn away any Scout that had not completed their pre-reqs. Most followed the request. Sessions were an hour and a half or three hours. Care was taken to insure that the badges selected for the event were ones that could be completed in the given timeframe with judicious use of pre-reqs. It was amzing to hear some of the interaction going on in these classrooms. The interaction that goes on in a properly run, limited class size (ours was 15 to a class) MBU setting just can't occur in a traditional setting. Our Law MBC ran a mock trial - judge, jury, defense,etc. You can't do that 1:1 or 1:2. The chemistry instructor took advantage a fume hood in the college's lab to demonstrate how it works, again not something most houses have in them. MBUs have their place, but not for all badges.

Troop 185, Having spent a good number of summers in Tobermory, I can tell you your experience with the funeral layout is not a unique one. I my days there all the clergy travelled in from towns further down the pennisula do perform services. Sometimes they'd arrive to find out that funeral was part of their duties that weekend. Talk about a surprise.

Our troop is up by 6:00 AM at the latest on Sunday. Everyone packs their personal gear and breaks down their own tents (we're a bring your tent troop) and loads their cars. The patrol stuff is packed away Saturday night into the trailer. No one eats breakfast until ALL items are packed, stowed in cars and a police line is done. Breakfast is poptarts (cold of course), packaged muffins and bagels with juice or coffee served in paper cups and napkins. All heck breaks loose if they aren't on the road by 9:00 AM. We camp 50% of our campouts within 20 minutes of our meeting place. The rest are 1-2 hours from home. There are no church obligations to race home for just leaders that "don't want to waste a day at camp". Not sure why they bother with the Saturday night stay over other than to get credit for the "night" of camping. This style of camping doesn't go over well with several families. The younger scouts really have a hard time staying up until 10-11 PM on Saturday night then getting up at 6 AM on Sunday. The kids come home and sleep the rest of the day and are crabby too boot. Not to mention they are hungry when they get home.

Have you tried involving the picky eaters in the menu planning? If they have a say in the menu then they have no place to complain about the food (other than Mommy didn't cook it). They may not get everything they want to eat on the menu but they might get a few things to survive on. Even our pickiest eater, an Aspergers kid, ate camp food by day 3 of our 7 day summer camp. Sometimes hunger will just take over. Kids have to be really screwed up to starve themselves to death, and they won't starve to death on a weekend campout. Get crabby but not starve to death. I have dealt with one vegan in my camping trips. She brought her own food. We couldn't come up with a menu that gave her enough food to live on and meet her vegan needs. As for allergies we try our best. We have left the PB at home and only had jelly as an option. We have checked labels for trace levels of allergens (usually families know what brand is safe and we'll buy that brand of cookies/bread/margarine/etc) and do our best. We won't serve an allergen on purpose as a food (I'm allergic to corn, so no niblets corn for dinner, soft shell tacos instead of hard, etc). Jsut as important for the unit to be food sensitive, it is more important that the allergic person know about their allergy and reactions.

Lisabob, Depending on what he has to finish in E-Prep and camping he may be able to get them finished off in a weekend of hard work. I glanced at camping and there are a lot of plan/write sections. While it would be desirable to put his duty roster into action the requirement says create a duty roster for those attending the camp, doesn't say he has to enact it to fulfill the requirement. Same thing goes for E-Prep, I remember my son doing lots of planning, but very little acting. Cit in Community is his only other option. So he'll need to act quickly. In my area boys often attend a meeting for city councils that are on a night good for them not necessarily the one in their community. I live near a large city down state from you and you can go through 15 different communities in 30 -45 minutes of driving. My community for example has a city council meeting that lasts 5-15 minutes (maybe that's why we have an emergency financial manager). So my son will get nothing accomplished at that meeting. We will attend a meeting in the city where we go to troop (4 communities south of ours). Maybe he could attend a meeting in a neighboring community if yours has its December meeting. Also for communications, a COH doesn't have to be a huge all evening affair. Perhaps the troop would see its way clear to have a brief 15-20 minute to present MBs and ranks earned since the last one. (He could sell it as adding one more COH for the JTE awards, might boost from a bronze to a silver) Use the last 15-20 minutes of a troop meeting. Remember the immediate recognition thing. Or they could have a Scout's Own - they don't have to be on Sundays and only at camp. We did one in Cubs for November 11 one year. Good luck.

My kids go to a Montessori charter school and have for 4 years. The program is set up so that several age groups are in one room with more than one teacher. At our school kindergarten is by itself, they do some things with the the Pre-K classes but not much. Grades 1-3 are grouped together and 4-6 then 7-8. Our school strives to have equal numbers of each year in each room when they can (6 grade 4s, 6 grade 5s, and 6 grade 6s). Spelling, math and reading usually are done in small groups that are age/skill appropriate, science, social studies and specials (art, gym, music) are done as a room. Everyone in the room does the same lessons but more is expected of the older kids in the room (grade 4s do 1 page paper, grade 6s do 3 page paper). One great thing about Montessori is the kids can work at their own pace and ability level. If they don't read too well but are great at math then they are put in a lower reading group and a higher math group. It isn't uncommon to have a grade 4 that is in third grade spelling, 6th grade math and 4th grade reading. The program is built around the kids, the kids don't conform to a program. You don't see bored kids becoming class clowns. If Billie runs out of work then he helps others get theirs done or he gets another assignment from the teacher. A good Montessori teacher knows his/her students and keeps them busy without singling them out. Also the kids stay with a teacher for up to 3 years. When you enter a room as a grade 1 you stay with that teacher until you leave grade 3. Montessori theory expects students to become independent, self sufficient and self directed at an early age. Kids are given a list of work for the day and in most cases they responsible for finishing the tasks by the end of the day. There are lessons by the teacher but since there are 3 grades in 1 room, the kids have to develope the ability to work in a noisier and more chaotic room than in regular school. If Julie wants to do math, then spelling then science she can. Meanwhile Billie does science, spelling and finally math. The room as a whole doesn't do math then spelling then science like a regular school. There is a lot of independent learning and small group learning at a Montessori school. There is also the expectation that the older students mentor and aid the younger students. A grade 6 may explain a math problem to a grade 4. The kids are urged to go to classmates for help before using 1 of the 2 classroom teachers. As a result of the mentoring that goes on in a Montessori program and the expectations placed on them at a younger age than a traditional school, you may find that these students become the natural leaders in your unit if given a chance. Montessori kids tend to work well in small groups, problem solve well, and are used to finding answers with guidance on their own, they also as a rule have better time management skills than those in regular school. This means they tend to do well at T-2-1 rak requirements/merit badges (especially if the MBC uses worksheets), they are good instructors for younger kids coming to your troop, they tend to progress at their own rate. Leadership isn't taught at a Montessori school but due to the nature of the school leadership is learned there. As for recruiting, our school doesn't allow it. The reason is we share a building ( an old high school) with several other businesses and a few government facilities. We don't own our building. We have relatively tight security compared to the other schools on our area. No outsiders in during school hours. Also they don't want to let parents with kids in the school recruit because they don't want to be accused of being favoritist. If all units can't come in a present their case then no one gets in. I don't buy it, but its the school's rules so I have to live with it. I think it has a lot to do with the head secretary and the principle not with the philosphy on Montessori. Here is a link to the info page at our school. http://www.creative-montessori.com/montessori-matters. Good luck!

Basement, I hear you on much needed camp repairs, we too have camps that need repairs. I see these programs as being something additional for councils to offer to make themselves unique in the crowd of camps. The camps that were pilots obviously have it made they have the equipment. Those that wish to add the programs can do so if they can afford it or get manufacturers or dealers to help them out. I don't think the intent of allowing councils to run the programs was for every camp to have ATV/PWC. Some camps just aren't suited to their use. It is just another option to drum up business. Another way to keep the older boys coming to camp. It maybe a leverage tool to get troops that always go to the same camp on the same week, in the same site to re-think where they go every 3-4 years. My troop has gone to the same MB mill, on the same week at the same site for over 15 years. As a result no one in the troop over 15 goes to camp. 3-4 years there and you've done it all including a 50 mile canoe trek. If I could get into a PLC meeting and tell the boys that a pilot site is less than 2 hours from home (regular camp is almost 4 hours away) and only costs $55 extra I think they'd jump at the opportunity to go there for a year. I can't get the info to the PLC so all I can do is make Son aware of the options and have him share at a SMC or BOR with the adults. Luckily for Son he can't attend camp with his troop this year, family obilgation. He'll attend a pilot site with a friend's troop a few weeks later. Maybe first hand experience and pictures will make the PLC think about it. FWIW, I think councils place too much pressure on units to stay in council to go to summer camp. I get the whole support your council camp bit. But if only half the troop goes because the program hasn't changed in years and the older boys have been there done that what good does it do? Get most/all the kids to go to a new place once in a while and everyone will be better off.