trainerlady

The troop I serve could use a few more trained parents and our main ASMs and the SM need to be re-trained, they all sleep with their sons. They are also all male. The moms that camp all sleep in their own tents and the boys in theirs with a friend or by themselves. The boys seldom put up or take down the tents. Our troop also has almost as many dads on a trip as they do boys. I don't camp as often as I'd like due to my daughter, she can't come to BS camp and I don't want to ditch her every month for a weekend. My son and 2 of his firends are the only boys that regularly camp with out a parent in tow. As I said nearly all the parents are male. All the dads in camp really messes up the dynamics. I'm sure all the parents there is why we have as many problems at camp as we have.

Gas prices have changed the way I look at weekend campouts. If SS had a ball game in the middle of the weekend, and needed/wanted to play in it, I used to have no problem taking him to camp on Friday, coming home, going to get him on Saturday AM and bringing him back Saturday after the game. Then going back to camp and getting him on Sunday. This was a standard practice in our unit. We camp within 30 miles of home most of the time so it wasn't a big deal to disappear for a couple of hours between meals/activities. SM's kid was the worst offender for this practice. His mom would do the driving so dad could stay at camp. Scouts had to tell the SM prior to camp that they needed to do this to be allowed to do it. Also had several dads that would come out to camp in the AM, leave to work afternoons and come back about midnight to be with their sons at camp. Few dads are doing it now. Now we are seeing kids forced to make a choice - go to camp and stay or stay home and play your ball game. Very few parents are now willing to make 4 round trips to the campsite so junior can take part in all his weekend activities. Now before anyone jumps on my unit for this kind of practice please understand that this was a solution to kids not coming to camp because of sports. We are lucky to have several close to home sites to camp at, some aren't great but the kids get out of the house for a weekend and do camp stuff, just not my choice of sites. If we didn't allow kids to come/go for sports on weekends we'd only camp 1-3 times a year instead of 8-10 times a year. About 1/3 of our troop plays elite travel soccer or baseball. This policy was a good compromise to keep boys in sports and scouting (policy has been in place for years, long before I go there). Good or bad it used to work for us.

Got an email on Thursday announcing a new SE for the Great Lakes Council, part of the Area 2 merger. One of the key points we were told before the merger was that we'd have lots less high administration and more DE's. Well now there hiring a new SE for a council that isn't supposed to exist anymore. So where is the reduction in top executive staff happening? More lies about how the merger was supposed to happen and the benefits we were supposed to see. So far the wonderful unified Michigan council has instituted a fee for signatures for volunteering at the national/regional levels, proposed that all contingent members attending national,regional events pay an added fee, and proposed adding that fee to high adventure trips sponsored by the council. The fee is a $155 FOS payment, no FOS no signature no trip. National council was here this weekend looking at the camps in the northern lower pennisula. Speculation is they are assessing for camp closures. Since a majority of Michigan's BS summer camps are within 50-100 miles of each other in the northern LP and don't run capacity programs each summer that by next summer many will no longer run camp at all. Thought is why have several half/3/4 full camps when you can have fewer packed camps. National council folks were here to offer thoughts on which ones to keep running and which ones to close or change purposes of. Concenus of the regular average Joe scouter in teh area is that BSA is trying to drive us out of business in the state of Michigan. More fees, less access to camps, fewer services centers and stores further away from the scouting population. So far we haven't seen anything about increasing membership, only new ways to stick it to the current membership. Too bad the only snow job in this state was by the BSA this fall/winter. I missed my skiing trip for lack of real snow.

I haven't watched the videos yet but I have a question for those more knowledgeable than I. Do I need a tour plan if I have an ad hoc group of scouts attending an out of council summer camp together? If so who would fill it out? I'm an ASM do i have access?

Canadian Girl Guides and Scouts Canada members use patch blankets. I've been to several international events with Canadian kids and adults and their patch blankets are quite neat. Some have even been cut in the middle to create a poncho type thing. The members can use them as a blanket on their bunks/sleeping bags if they get cold or wear them over a jacket as a poncho to add warmth. I have 1 friend that has over 20 year of patches on her blanket. Both sides of her blanket are just about full. A patch blanket always seems to start up an intersting conversation between two Scout/Guides. My vote would be go the blanket route. Get a nice moderate wieght piece of polar fleece or buy a nice twin bed sized blanket and use it. Just make sure that what you buy will stand up to sewing and use and lots of washing. Some materials are better than others.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that we get rid of the academic merit badges or at least cut down on how of them there are. Do we REALLY NEED 3 different citizenship badges? Family life is a make work project IMHO. A well functioning family will do this already and a poorly functioning family will never get through it, either way its a bust of a badge. Communications is really just Public Speaking with a twist or two. Don't know how it is else where in the country but my kids do boat loads of presentations and speeches at school why repeat in Scouts? If the concensus is having an academic camp to get these badges done is a bad thing for scouting then wouldn't the answer be to get rid of the badges? No matter when or how these badges are done, at an academic camp, summer camp, merit badge fair, or traditioanlly 1:1 with a counselor, you can't get around that they are academic exercises that really don't lend themselves to getting our scouts outside. I know of at least 10 kids that have dropped out of scouting due to the academic merit badges being required to advance. A couple were told by parents do them or quit, we aren't paying for you to play and camp. A couple more had learning disabilities and just couldn't wrap their heads around some of the subject matter (personal management). The last group quit over family life, parents didn't want the needed discussions to occur around the much younger siblings, or put the effort into the family projects - Junior is the scout not us. At any rate if require academic badges then we have to accept an academic solution to the problem or change the system.

Wish my troop had had this problem. We have too many parents that want ot do things with the troop to the point that some boys miss out on the events. This weekend we are camping in a cabin at our local scout camp (not the cabin that caused all the problems last month and a different camp too). There are 17 kids and 7-8 adults going on the trip just over an hour from our meeting site. Last weekend we did a curling event, had 13 boys and 11 adults. If you don't sign up early for events in our troop you dont get to go. Along with the other problems my troop has we seem to run a "fun with son" camping/activity program. Wish there was a way to ditch some of the parents and I as an ASM could enforce it.

Bridging in our multilevel troop is very similar to crossing over to the next level in CS. Since we have over 30 girls in the troop we have some girls bridge levels every year. Sometimes its only 1-2 from each level sometimes its 8-10. We do our bridge ceremony at a park with a bridge, very pretty site. We send the Ambassadors to the far side of the bridge they receive the Seniors crossing to Ambassadors and they pin on their bridging pin/patch. Then the Seniors go over and receive the Cadettes that are crossing over, repeat the pinning portion. Then the Cadettes go over, now the whole troop is across the bridge. The whole troop receives the bridging Juniors and pins on their patches. All girls return to the middle of the bridge and its photo-op time. If scheduling permits, all the troops in the cluster (think BS district)come to the same park on the same night and do bridging the same way. Sometimes there are over a 100 girls and families there, sometimes just 20-30 girls and families. All the troops participating chip in on cake and ice cream and punch. A very nice late spring evening.

TAHAWK, The fee is the idea of the paid staffers, primarily the higher ups. The underlings don't seem happy about it either. They're the ones getting the flack over it and having to enforce it. Those in the ivory towers that can't be accessed don't care they just want money.

IM Kathy, Don't know if my daughter's very large GS troop is using the new badges the right way, but here is how they are handling the 3 different programs. All girls in the Cadette/Senior/Ambassador troop we have (about 35 girls) can work on any badge from any of the 3 levels. They work on their age appropriate journey and Silver/Gold awards. If they are going to a campout and doing badge work they will vote on what level and which badges they want to focus on as a group. Then everyone partakes and receives the badge completed. Daughter is a Cadette and has 1 new badge at each level right now, cooking I think. It is working well for us. Might not be right, but it works.

AK, Nike has some great points. May I add a couple of things. Have your new GS leaders check with their council and see what activities are already going in their area. Things will be winding down now spring is here but most councils have huge activity programs that are council run. The 2 councils I live in/near both publish 200+ page books every fall with activities that range from songfests to high adventure campng, glass blowing to SCUBA diving, mall lock ins to backpacking trips. Some are open to individuals to sign up for some are troop only activities. These books usually have lots of advertisers (pays for free distribution to every girl in the council)ranging from the pottery shop in Anytown that offers GS workshops once a month (and birthday parties too) to SCUBA stores that offer intro classes for GS (and yes classes for the public). If a girl can dream it up its probably in the book or there is an advertiser in the book that offers something similar to it. Also tell you leaders that they aren't bound to using only their council for activities. GS is less concerned about you belonging to XYZ council and supporting them exclusively than they are about every girl doing something fun and benefiting from the program. In fact GS camps are open to all girls, members or not. I guess you can summarize what I'm saying into use your resources. Sometimes they aren't out in the open like the BSA but they are there. Most of all HAVE FUN! (yelling)

Lisabob, I do remember that you are from Michigan, the northern section if I've figured you out right. Please let me know what is going on in your "old" council area. There are 2 paid Pros going on this gambit. Each was the paid advisor on the last jambo for his respective "old" council. Michigan has been merger central for the last few years. Last jambo fell about 10 months after the first merger in the state. Each original council sent its own contingent and staffer. Lots of things were coorindated but not everything. This time around they both get to go again. Less to coordinate, less to order, less total kids even when you add venturers, less work as far as I can tell but double the staff for one council. One more thing that makes this whole fee for signatures thing piss me off. If council is so short on cash that they are shaking down volunteers for signatures then maybe they should only be sending 1 pro.

If the embezzler was like some in this area (GS cookie money and a couple of BS people) then he'd "borrow" money when he "needed" and put it back when he "won". The amounts were never huge in any one transaction but they added up to some serious amounts when you totaled it up over the course of the "borrowing". The article didn't say he'd taken all of it at once or how the "distribution of funds" occured. NOT DEFENDING THE GUY. (emphasis not yelling) Just a possibility of how it never got noticed.

Basement, Haven't read the article referred to in the post this was spun from yet. But here's my personal experiences. My old pack had $5,000 in its account total. But most of the money was in individual scout family accounts. I think we carried about $3,500 in family accounts and about $1,500 in general operating funds after popcorn and other fundraising funds came in during the fall. By spring we'd be down to a hundred dollars in general funds but still have family account money. But it still looked like we had $3,500 in the bank. Big brother troop had accounts totaling over $10,000 again most of it is scout accounts. And this was a troop with 10 kids in it. So it isn't hard to beleive that a big troop could have a high amount of total deposits on hand if they use scout accounts.

Don't know about Philmont or other HA base advisers needing to cough up cash. Probably won't be long if you are a council lead crew, probably not if you are a troop going on your own, but who knows. We have 2 DE/DDs that are acting as ASMs for jambo. This will be their second go around with jambo. Their primary job resposnsibiliy is jambo. Recruit, order equipment, accompany, etc jambo. They are DE/DDs for the time when jambo isn't consuming all of their time. These 2 gentlemen were the first in the council to recieve assistant staffers to cover for them when they are gone or otherwise engaged in jambo stuff. I have a pretty good feeling that they arent paying for jambo or using vacation time to go either. I don't think a non-contributing or under contributing scouter will get kicked out of their leadership position, but again it may only be a matter of time. However, if they tried this game they'd loose so many units it'd be scary. The whole Area 2 thing is about growing membership, can't do that if you kick the unit serving volunteers out for not paying FOS to a specified level. We'd have Rich Scouts of Michigan if they try to make every scouter pay the acceptable FOS payment. A majority of us in my district are blue collar, working class folks that are just scrapping by. There are very few scouters that are so comfortable in my area that they could cough up cash at the whim of the council (at least very few I know personally).

Kc, Only put it in to monetary terms given the situation my friend and possibly I are facing in my council to get signatures needed to volunteer at a national level event. Council wants another $155 to get the signatures on top of everything we volunteers here already give. I agree that my time is priceless and for the most part I do get more than I give at times. However, when I'm told that what I give isn't enough I get PISSED. Maybe my kids' school or our church would be more appreciative of my time donation. As a matter of fact my kids' school is more appreciative. Went to school yesterday to assist with son's class, due to a staffing change his teacher wasn't going to get a lunch break without the kids. I went in for 1 hour and took the kids to the lunch room, took them outside for a beautiful spring recess break, over saw a bathroom break and returned them to a grateful teacher. He'd had a chance to return a couple of phone calls, eat his lunch in peace and use the restroom himself. At the end of the day my son and the class student council rep gave me a beautiful homemade thank you card. The teacher was grateful he had an hour to himself to eat and attend to his needs, the kids were grateful to go outside to play. It was no big deal for me, I wasn't doing anything at home anyway. Even the principal thanked me on the way out. Never gotten anything like that from a DE or SE. Just get hey can you do this or that, how about another $$$? Need your help at xyz and by the way you'll have to pay $$$ to help out.

When I worked a real job (pre National Supply) I was paid in the $20/hour range. I was not paid well for my skill set and knowledge but it was going rate in my field at the time. So if you figure a troop/pack/den meeting a week lasting 2 hours (pre opening to closing) (8 hours a month), monthly campout (36 hours of active duty/on call time at night), roundtable once a month for continuing education (2 hours), a trip to the scout shop for this or that at least once a month (2 hours round trip). Add in at home prep time for a meeting or special event of 2 hours a month and I'm at 50 hours easily per month. $20(hourly rate) x 50 hours/month = $1,000/month $1,000/month x 9 months/year = $9,000/year PLUS - 1 week of hard earned vacation time to attend summer camp as a volunteer with the unit that I had to pay a fee to attend not spent with the ENTIRE family - priceless. Conservatively, I give $9,000 (if I were paid my hourly rate) a year plus camping/event fees to scouting to spend time with one of my 2 children and his friends. Don't know many soccer parents that cough up that kind donation to their child's activity.

Just got home from roundtable. Spoke personally with the other field director, at least that was what he was before Area 2 passed. Now that the whole state of Michigan is one mega council not sure of the guy's new title. Anyway, he claimed he knew nothing about it at first. All he wanted was my friend's name. Told him that wasn't happening. No sense in getting my friend in trouble. After pushing the issue for a couple of minutes and a crowd gathering nearby he confessed about hearing about the proposal. Turns out that the suggestion across the new council board (possilby all of Michigan) is that if you don't sell popcorn, give at least family level FOS, and support any other council fundraisers to their expectations you won't get the needed signatures for volunteering at the regional or national level. The reason - you are not a good supporter of local scouting therefore you can't play at a higher level. Asked him point blank - do I stand a chance of getting the needed signatures since my troop doesn't do popcorn? Was told to call or go downtown and meet with the powers that be and explain my situation. See if something could be worked out. I stated that I was unemployed and looking at sending 4 of us to jambo and that we were tapped. He said maybe we should rethink how many people in the family should go if we couldn't help out the local program first. Was going to do FOS at some level, definitely not now. Guess hubby and I will have to follow jambo online and daughter can do a Girl Scout or Girl Guide high adventure program next year instead of being one of the first female Venturers at jambo. Contemplating asking for a refund for son's fees paid to date. Maybe we'll go on a good family vacation to West Virginia and cave, white water raft and zipline as a family with the money BSA would've seen. Or better yet the kids can go to the local YMCA camp for a couple of weeks and hubby and I can have a second honeymoon.

Just had a friend call me and tell me that in order to get his paperwork signed to volunteer at NOAC he had to cut the council FOS program a check for $155 ( family level suuport in our council). He thought the DE was messing with him, so he went to the council offices and talked to a field director and the CFO. Both told him that was the new policy and it would be published shortly. It would apply to all regional and national volunteer spots (NOAC, Jambo, etc). So now on top of paying to serve we have to pay extra to volunteer. I guess our council is so broke that this is seen as a good way to raise funds. Only 1 problem. Some of us scrapping up the bucks to volunteer at NOAC or Jambo don't have the funds to pay the extortion fees council has now set up. I had intended to have 2 kids attend Jambo and both hubby and I volunteer for a week at Jambo. We're talking nearly $4,500 of jambo/contingent fees over the next 14 months plus 2 summer camp fees this year (another $700 total for 2 kids). A lot to ask for a family to come up with. Now add $155 for each adult to get paperwork signed to VOLUNTEER, ABSURD!! Is this a standard thing? Am I wrong being upset about the "new fee"? I'm afraid hubby and I will be withdrawing our applications to serve at Jambo, and seriouly looking at our FOS contributions for this year and the years to come. I'm unemployed, no job in sight, putting an extra $300 in fees on us has taken this endeavour over the top. Too bad, I think we had a lot to offer as jambo staff and were looking forward to the event. Think I'll give a kid or 2-3 in the troop or pack the cash I'd have given FOS and start my own campership program. At least that way I know the money went directly to a kid in need, not keeping a stuffed shirt in a job.

Not needed IMO. Have yet to see a good one in our troop or any that I have visited or interacted with. Election of an SPL leads to a popularity contest, not the election of the best boy for the job. In my When is enough enough thread, 17 was our past SPL and the current ASPL was involved in some of the monkey business too.Current SPL wasn't on the trip because he didn't want to go. He hasn't wanted to go on any of the last 3 campouts and isn't signed up for hte next two either. I'm sure he'll be pressured into going by the SM. Should just be removed and be done with it. SPL for most boys that I've seen in the position is a power trip. "I can boss you around and ride rough shot over you and there is nothing you can do about, I'm top dog." Is the way SPLs in my area behave. Watched it happen at several camporees in the area.

My Council fees are DOWN about $300 from the last jambo. National fees are $800 or $850 per participant of our $1500 fee. But since the boys are travelling by bus the costs are still higher than we had hoped due to the costs of diesel for the buses. Propane costs for our camps have gone through the roof too. So the 3 shake-down camps at our local camp will cost more than 3 years ago.Council raised weekend rates last fall by $10 a site or cabin to help off set the costs of fuels. Prices are going through the roof around here. Gas, diesel, propane, and food are all a LOT higher than 3 years ago. As I sit here watching the NBC Nightly News they just discussed the real possibility that we (the whole country) could be paying an average of $5.00 a gallon for gas by the time jambo rolls around. If you think the fees are out of line ask for an accounting of them. My council will give one out on request. The biggest cost to everyone is transportation. It is also the factor that the council has the least control over. If diesel goes higher the cost will be passed on to the council by the charter bus company. We are a 12-13 hour drive to the jambo site. With 9 troop and 3 crews going that's a lot of buses and diesel costs. If you are bussing to jambo remember that the bus driver costs for the trip have to be factored into the costs of renting a bus. I think our council is planning to have the buses drop the troops & crews off then come back. That equals 2 round trips for the buses. Which is cheaper than keeping the buses parked in WV for 2 weeks and paying the drivers salary for 2 weeks to do nothing. Sure you can trek Philmont for about $650 a person (last time I looked at fees) but you STILL have to get there. From my area travel to Philmont makes it more expensive than a jambo. Train is $300-$500 person (adult, coach) and 4 days of travel time (round trip). Flying is $500+ and for each you have to add transfers or a rental car. Easily another $200-$400 dollars. So jambo isn't really that bad a deal.

The rest of Guiding and Scouting world calls today "Thinking Day". So Happy Thinking Day and Happy Birthday to the Baden Powells.

Just got back from meeting with the CC, SM and ASMs that were at camp and one of our troop Dads that is a juvenile probation officer (the committee brought him due to his expertise in youth behavior). Got the concerns sorted out and clarified. 17 had 4 other boys throwing knives with him by the end of the evening. All four will be sharing the cost of the drywall repair. The SM went out on Saturday night and got supplies to repair the wall after 17's Dad came for him. The council was alteredd to the problem today, they were closed yesterday and the ranger was out of camp on Sunday when they left. The 5 knife throwers will be doing an 8 hour service project at that camp later this month. The SM and ranger are looking for a suitable punishment for the crime. All knife throwers lost their Totin' Chips with no re-earn date in the near or distant future. The leaders had a "ceremonial shredding and burning" after breakfast in the fire the first years built. The ice incident was on a swale area, depth estimated to be about 1-2 feet max. The scouts were told to stay off but went out anyway. One scout did run into the cabin and alert the adults to what was going on. All involved were scolded and they lost outside privilieges for the rest of the day. The punch was witnessed by all in line for chow. The eye witnesses say that 17 was flipping his arms up to protect himself, supposedly he thought my 5 foot tall 11 year old was going to hit him. 17 is close to 6 foot and has 50 pounds on son. Thought that was a lame excuse but everyone claims that 17 didn't hit son on purpose. 17 had an partner in crime on the duct taping and roping event. Everyone in the bunk room got it to one degree or another. Son and first timer just got it the worst because they were sounder sleepers than the others. Due to the closed steel fire doors in the cabin none of the adults supposedly heard anything. The leaders found out about it in the morning when son and first timer said something about it at breakfast. Turns out the older scouts that were put in charge of the bunk room were the ones that committed the event. Lemonade event was premeditated. And 17 admitted to it. 17's Dad came for him. Turns out he's is the best of the 6 kids from a combined family. Dad was pissed and 17 was fearful of Dad coming to get him. Dad said 17 wouldn't have a knife until he was 21 now. 17 and his fellow duct taper will be banished from camping and outings for 4 months, not allowed to run in troop elections and will not be passed on Scout Spirit for at least 4 months. Duct tape assistant was also a knife thrower. The rest of the knife throwers will also suffer loss of Scout Spirit for 4 months and will not be allowed to run for elections. There will also be a troop wide bullying/hazing discussion at our next meeting. My email to the SM actually moved the process forward. They had originally planned to meet tomorrow night to discuss the events of the weekend and figure out the consequences. Now my nerves have been calmed and so have those of first timers parents too. Lessons learned this camp. 1) take son's reports with a larger grain of salt; 2) this cabin will never be used by our troop again; 3) watch which boys you put in charge; 4) zero tolerance on safety issues; 5)SM realizes that he needs to step up and not let things go on because "boys will be boys"; 6) ask boys if they don't get along with others in troop on a regular basis and separate them as needed, probably a SMC question now. Finally parents will be notified on events at camp as soon as the happen not from their sons stories of camp - ie. better communication with parents. Thanks for your insights. Son will be camping without Mom for a while more. If he wants me or Dad on the first trip when 17 returns we will go with him. If he wants us there before that we'll go then too, but we're not going to push ourselves on him at camp.

Basement, Not an Eagle yet, still needs to do a project. Not the kid of anyone important that I know of. Not even from the community where the troop meets.

We've known 17 for jujst over a year. Only seen Mom once and never met Dad. A broken home is a good guess. 17 rides his bike to most in town activities and gets rides home if it is dark or bad weather. His parents have never driven for an event. He has been Life since we started with the unit. Was SPL when we joined, then PL for son's patrol for the next term or office. 17 is one of those kids that can snow an adult into thinking he is the greatest scout in the world. Knows what to say, when to say it and how to say it. When adults aren't around he is a BRAT to say the least. I have had short conversations with him about his behavior and is representing his rank appropriately to the younger scouts. I have even gone as far a telling him to be glad I can't sit on his Eagle BOR, because I'd fail him over his lack of Scout Spirit and for not living Scout Oath and Law. Very manipulative, very devious and very deceptive. A great ring leader, can sucker kids that know something is wrong into following him. Did that with the duct tape thing at camp. That is probably why no adults were summoned to the boys bunk room. 17 had a first year camper in tears at summer camp because of his bullying and taunting. SM, CC and other leaders did nothing. The SM actually held the scout being bullied back from advancing because he wasn't mature enough at summer camp to be a Star scout in their opinion, he cried. Bullied scout Mom was in camp as an ASM but had no luck with 17 (then 16) or the other leaders. I backed her as 17 was doing the same thing to my son and 2 more friends that were also first year campers. IMHO 17 is a kid that could have benefited from scouting if the adult leadership had gotten their heads out of their collective butts before we arrived. But things seemed to have gone for a long time without being corrected and now we have a 17 year handful that likes picking on 10.5 to 12 kids. This isn't a good thing. BTW, we're hoping not to have to press charges against 17.