5yearscouter

Oh and when our pack was planning our first rocket launch day we looked for rockets, and realized that the ones on scoutstuff.org are estes model rockets that those NAMES of rockets are being discontinued, but the shape/design/size of the rocket was still around most likely in a different color. so we bought a sample rocket at Michael's locally with their coupon in the paper for 40% off one item, put it together checking out how long, how detailed, what supplies, and how to make it so even the youngest scouts could do PART of the work. then put it together, bought a small pack of rocket engines that would fit used a launch controller and launch pad we already had, went to the location we wanted to use and checked out how far it would probably go when we launched it so we had some ideas of what we were working with. we also cancelled launch day 4 times due to excessive wind for the park area we were using.

yes, storming the council office is a possiblity on my schedule for friday. This is Wednesday night, tomorrow is Thursday. I did not know more than rumors before Tuesday. District and Council Execs are not answering phones about this issue right now. My complaints have been sent to them by email Tuesday. the big meeting is within the troop as each party that has been notified shares what info they've been given by council and make sure they all have the same information and are not missing something. This will include existing scoutmaster, CC, COR, IH(I think, not sure), and the scoutmaster elect. They are going to try to come to a calm consensus of what their next step is going to be for the boys, for new scoutmaster and for dealing with council, then they will bring this to troop committee--with all of them on the same page. I'm not sure if the UC will be in that meeting but he should be. Scoutmaster elect is trying to appeal the "decision" but has been told there is no appeal. That sounds pretty final. COR's at this point that I've talked to would request that he at least be allowed to know the claims against him and counter the claims with factual data and allow others to vouch for his character if it's "just" a smear campaign.

http://scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01CLO&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=CL_CRAFTS&C3=&C4=&LV=2&item=179WRK&prodid=179WRK^8^01CLO& we bought this rocket kit set last um, May for the pack enough of them for the whole pack. if they participated in the spring fundraiser, they got a rocket for free, otherwise we charged a little something for them. we got a couple of the controllers and a boatload of engines each den spent a meeting putting together rockets, very easy to do with parent help. we didn't have enough launch pads so we made one take a wooden sawhorse, buy little metal rods at home depot small enough for the rocket to slide over. drill a little hole in the top of the sawhorse, 6-8 inches apart, slide the little metal rods into the holes 4-6 on the sawhorse, depending on how long it is. nail a metal juice can lid to the sawhorse right where the rocket will sit for the engine blast. if the rocket wants to slide down the rod too far, wrap a little electrical tape at the right height to keep the rocket high enough. this will allow you to launch 4-6 rockets at a time. check with pack families and local troop to see if anyone else has rocket launchers. on rocket day, bring extra batteries for the controllers. make sure each rocket has the boy's name on it. set up a table of adults to load wadding, engines and igniters into the rockets send boys to wait in line for launching with their rockets on a table nearby. 2 adults make sure key is out of the controllers then 4 boys at a time bring over their rockets, 2 adults place rockets, clip on wires, and go stand near their rocket controller at go, each boy takes turns counting down, pushing button and going to see their rocket come down, gather it up and go back for another engine. then the next boy goes if you have a lot of boys make two sets of launch pad sawhorses and set them up a little bit away from each other. take turns sending 4 boys to each one, and setting up. they launch while the other one gets set up. note these rockets don't last much more than 2 launches before the cardboard tube gets messed up, or you lose a flag, or other issue. bring some repair items, but be prepared for losses and how to keep a young cub from crying when their rocket blows up and can't be launched again.

We just use snack size ziplock bags from the dollar store for small award sets and sandwich bags for when a scout gets a bit carried away. we also staple the belt loops to the back of the award cards, and put all pins thru award cards whenever possible so everything is labeled and ready to go.

Well I was asked by the troop COR to sit tight until thursday until they'd have a big meeting and let me know what happens next between them and council reps. So I wait. I should to invite Scout exec to blue and gold but I'm sitting on that too. At the moment the best option is to force "them" to admit that there is no way to be a member of a company, the rules don't say you have to be an employee, but you can certainly be a member of that company's scout support committee and be chosen as COR to represent that company as a Chartering organization. so the COR retains his job. Then troop committee meeting on Monday they should choose an interim scoutmaster from existing assistant scoutmasters, or from other available candidates to serve until the witchhunt is over. of course right now troop COR wants to step down and not deal with the council. Chartering org doesn't want to deal with it either, they want committee to recommend new COR. COR is a good bet for interim scoutmaster (he's trained for it and said he would do that job if he didn't have to deal with council and if the boys want him.) so then they still end up needing a new COR. it looks like a really awkward round of musical chairs at the moment. The boys are going to be disappointed. they cheered so loudly when the new scoutmaster [elect] was announced. I really don't think they are going to get this nice man as their scoutmaster. If council thinks it should not recharter our troop over this kind of thing, they are insane. to lose a troop continuously chartered for 85 years??

yeah Eagle I really can't figure it out. It's not ever been claimed to be a youth protection issue. I'm worried that it's somehow going to get escalated to a remove the membership of the scoutmaster elect for what amounts to unsubstantiated slander against his character. I'm trying to wrap my mind around why noone at council should be buying into this witch hunt or vendetta, but they are. Of course there is always more to a story, there could be evidence that the troop committee was not provided--but why keep that kind of info a secret when it would quiet down all the unrest if this guy were that bad? At least tell the committee chair or COR what is so horrible in summary so they can quit things down in the committee. even a council is investigating suspicious activity and you need to choose a different scoutmaster until this is resolved would be better for the unit than what has been done/said so far. I've talked to the COR (over an hour on the phone today, he's ready to leave scouting and take his son with him--life scout who is currently SPL of the troop, newly elected last week). I'm trying to convince him to stay in his position, give him proof that he doesn't have to be a member of the chartered org, and encourage he and CC to appoint an interim scoutmaster from one of the existing remaining assistant scoutmasters and send the BIG scoutmaster selection committee back to the drawing board. Existing scoutmaster is trying to arrange a meeting at council with accused scoutmaster elect and "powers that be." Accused scoutmaster is ready to leave the troop so things can calm down for the boys, but will consider filing a legal slander lawsuit againt the DC. He'd take his Eagle son and 1st class son with him if he leaves the troop. Maybe council is worried that this smooth talking guy is really going to try to take it to the media--not that it's newsworthy in any way--except as an op ed piece about should scoutmasters be able to be politically opinionated? Interestingly enough the 2nd choice for scoutmaster has said some interesting things in front of the boys that were political statements, but everyone chalks it up to him being ex-military gung ho. Probably the two scoutmaster choices think a lot alike regarding scouting and politics, but one keeps it on the internet and one in front of the boys. unfortunately, the one on the internet you can copy and paste and take the words out of context. Note the discussions centered around building the muslim center at ground zero and that was many months ago when alot of people were really upset about that and making some interesting comments, including IIRC on this board. Blah! Thanks for letting me type this out at you guys. I should probably edit any particulars that could maybe in some way be identifying. just so I'm not accused of stirring the pot.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

The DC is really he DC and he has a voice of persuasion, having worked in radio will do that for a person I guess. He can be a smooth talker and he's talked his way into getting a few people on his side at district/council level it appears. I tried to warn the CC/COR of the troop to contact the DE and Council themselves ahead of time, but they thought once the TC voted AGAIN to retain said person as scoutmaster, that as they say would have been that. So I will imagine that DE and anyone at council were blindsided by this and perhaps they may be convinced that the DC is trying to help out the unit in some way with this finangling. I am at a loss why the DE who seems to have his head screwed on straight would let this get this far, unless he too has been bypassed and the DC is complaining to a higher Scout Exec at council. I will guess that this may be a situation of the DC finding 3 people to complain to council and that being enough for council to think there may be something to be said for these accusations and trying to blacklist the said scoutmaster. Unfortunately IH is MIA, they've moved their headquarters and even did some restructuring in there-- it's a business that while they give some $, use of a building and a name to the Troop, they don't have anyone that really wants to deal with these kinds of issues. They will be contacted, they will probably complain and want to drop the charter if it becomes too much of a headache. That's why they appointed the COR, so they don't have to deal with it. troop has been looking for a new Chartered Org since the business had financial difficulties, that may have to happen faster than they'd like. Guess I should spin off, how careful should scouters and scoutmasters have to be about what they talk about as adults online in a political forum where scouts are not present? This person did not have scouts as facebook friends, and his page is not public, scouts do not have access. DC asked to be his friend on facebook a long time ago, and when the choice of scoutmaster didn't go the way he wanted, only after it was announced to the boys and adults did he go search out things he thought was not ok for a scoutmaster to say and copy and pasted the items out of context.

I am not COR of the Troop in question I am COR of the local Pack there is not the same chartered org for each of these units. just to clear up any further confusion. if council persons want to push the COR has to be member thing 4 units will not have COR's that I know of right now, including my own. what happens if your COR is removed? I'm gastly afraid that if the COR is removed and council puts this District Commissioner in his place, the troop that has been in existence for 85 years will fold as people flee like crazy. That would be BAD.

This is two different units. my pack chartered by the parents of.... is ok. But a little concerned that "council" is saying that COR has to be a member of the chartered org, citing the link on the scouting.org link I posted. I'm IH and COR, used to be CC too of my pack. Parents at one time elected me to all those positions, and I've been backing my way out of each of those jobs over time so by the time my younger son is in the troop I'll be just about done. I'll pass it off sooner if I have to. my older son's troop is the one with the complaining parent, who is also a district commissioner who is raising a fuss that there was unscoutlike behavior[ a political discussion online and facebook] on the part of the scoutmaster elect. Parent threatened committee with taking this info to the district committee, the council, national and the media. He wants his friend in as scoutmaster, who was the troop's 2nd choice. Troop committee has reviewed the issue, reading all the details instead of cut and paste parts of discussions, and has voted to retain the scoutmaster elect and told the complaining parent to go take a hike. He seems to have taken it to district and council. Someone at council called scoutmaster yesterday to say they won't approve the new scoutmaster's application, but I'm not sure if it's the District Exec, or Scout Exec or who will not approve the app. They also brought up the COR needs to be replaced too because he's not a member of the chartered org. The troop is chartered by a business group, so defining member would be difficult. since COR is not an employee, he's a member of the business group's scouting committee (or whatever you'd want to call it) It's a sticky wicket. "council" wants COR changed, they mentioned some in committee too, and the 2nd choice person for Scoutmaster put in instead of this guy. Of course 2nd choice stormed off in a huff, refused to come to meetings and said he's starting a new troop when he wasn't chosen as scoutmaster. And the boys all saw this and do not want him as scoutmaster at this point either.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

Well I'm a COR that could be effected by this as fall out if Council decides to force this issue, as I'm COR and my son won't be a member of our parent chartered pack once he crosses over to the troop. Well, unless they make me an honorary parent of the pack, to make me an official "member" which is just silly paperwork pushing IMHO I'm only holding the title for a year more until we can get someone else experienced/trained/knowledgeable/committeed enough to take the job-- most likely cubmaster or committee chair will take the job and find a replacement for their job and train them in the coming year. Council is the one coming back with this as a way to replace the COR in a troop since he approved the scoutmaster that a disgruntled parent has an issue. Scoutmaster choice had a political discussion with his friends online that the parent did not agree with. Edit to remove way too many details that are best left unsaid at this point. Parent is a district commissioner is stirring the pot with a district executive who is stirring with council peoples. blah why can't adults play nicely with others? (This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

I can find this http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/chorr.aspx says Is a member of the chartered organization other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader but that is cub packs and doesn't say the same thing as the other more "formal" documents say, does it?

Does the Chartered Organization Representative have to be a member of the Chartering Organization? Or can the Institution Head/Executive Officer of the Chartering Organization choose someone else as COR say a scouter with a boy in the unit, but who isn't a member of the Organization? I need chapter and verse from BSA policy and procedure requirements. I see it on scouting.org under description title "Is a member of the chartered organization other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader. Is appointed by the chartered organization to serve as its official Scouting representative and is registered as an adult leader of the BSA." This comes up because of a complaining parent going to council to remove COR because he's not technically a "member" of the business that charters the unit--because the COR approved someone that the parent does not want to be scoutmaster. so he's trying to remove the COR and get someone in their place. The business in question is hands off (as most COR's are). this might have far-reaching ramifications IMHO. For instance, a pack chartered to the parents of pack 123, when that parent no longer has a boy in the unit, they can't be COR anymore. A Troop chartered to the Elks, the Elks appoints a COR that happens to be a scouter but doesn't belong to the Elks club, that's not ok. Shouldn't BSA be denying these COR applications without proof the COR is a member of the Chartered Organization??

All national has to do is change the wording of the box the dr signs _______ the scout in question is deemed reasonably phycially fit to participate in basic outdoor activities, hikes and overnight campouts including a 1 week summer camp where medical care is readily available. there could be those little check mark places or places for the dr to initial however many of the things the BSA wants checked off [swimming, hiking, backpacking or whatever they want on there] then have another line that says Part D medical clearance, with a spot for the dr to sign _______that says the scout ALSO passes this level of medical clearance to ALSO attend high adventure bases, very strenuous work projects and activities that would take them outside the area of readily available medical care. And I have read the Part D medical form information packet regarding what a High Adventure outing may entail. It wouldn't be that difficult, by having 2 places for the dr to sign, one signature doesn't have to do so much and carry so much weight. but yeah, right now my son is worried that a short, square scout in his troop can't attend summer camp at all because he won't pass the height weight chart. a basic boring bsa camp with a health officer and a medical facility within a reasonable drive. it will keep out the too fat kids from spending a week walking around camp and doing underwater basketweaving.

If you bring them into your meetings, they probably will never feel they HAVE to find their own leader, they will figure if you can have 14 wolves for a couple weeks, you can have 14 wolves for the rest of the year. so keep that in mind before you make these plans. That said, the right thing to do is for cubmaster, assistant cubmaster, yourself and your assistant to invite all the wolves over and get them goin on their derby cars and find out what's going on, with everyone there, and see if they can get a den leader and assistant going at this point. did that den have an assistant den leader? if the above meeting happens with your 6 wolves present, cause that is the only time that works, then so be it, but be sure to remind the parents that having a den of 6 or 8 is so much easier than the chaos that they see when all 14 are together. let them know if you have the rest of the year planned, and can share meeting plans with them, but know that their prior leader may have done things in a different order than you did, so they may have different things they need to get done to finish their ranks. contacting all the parents and getting them all the info is important, it shouldn't be just your responsibility, but if that's where it falls, then do it.

Well I would remind you that the Webelos 2's have until they are done with 5th grade, or 11.5 to remain in the cub scout pack. that if they are 11 years old, they can join a troop even if they haven't completed the arrow of light and that may be what they want, biding their time until that happens. Blue and Gold does not have to be the end of their scouting time. Of course, my Webelos 2's are not crossing over at blue and gold. they will get a short ceremony for their arrow of light badge at blue and gold. They will receive arrows for those who earned arrow of light, and bridge to boy scouts for those who are doing so the next week at an order of the arrow ceremony (blue and gold facilities will not work for an order of the arrow ceremony so we are splitting it up). So for these boys, advancement chair should visit a den meeting to discuss with the boys and their parents and the den leader in person how long the boys want to stay in the pack, and as far as the pack records, this is what the boys need to do to complete arrow of light, OR to just cross over to boy scouts Or do they have a different goal. Encourage them to visit local troops as a group, tell them you'll go with them and then do so. Sometimes they need a little boost to know it's ok. Depending on what their answer is, contact the local order of the arrow and see if they will do an arrow of light ceremony, or a bridging to boy scout ceremony or both. You could provide career arrows to the boys as a token of their years of scouting. They don't hae to be arrow of ligth arrows if aol is not earned. check with a local hunting/bow and arrow shop to get arrows cheaply, and then paint stripes on them for tiger, wolf, bear, webelos badges and arrow points, or other special events. it's a cool gift, it shouldn't cost more than $5-10 each. Otherwise a scout law or scout oath coin from the scout shop, or a certificate of graduation from cub scouts would be appropriate.

Our troop has been chartered for 82 years. so when the flag gets full of ribbons and it just seems like too much and ribbons start to get tattered and torn up, they take off a set of ribbons and hang them up in the meeting room to make room for new ribbons. That seems like a reasonable thing to do, find a place to store the oldest ones and show off the newest ones, you'd have to determine how many ribbons look ok on the flag a certain number or a year or two's worth or more.

If you have somewhere with an indoor parking garage, go there on a weekend and pick up trash. Or the school grounds, park or other places where the kids have tromped thru the snow and there may be something on the ground to pick up.

QUOTE from Seattle Pioneer: "I think I'd either cross out the parts the Doc needn't consider or ask the Doc to cross out portions he can't approve in whatever way he wants to do it." But will the dr cross out lines on a form and sign it? Should the dr have to do so? I think Part D should be a copy of Part C with the meets height and weight thingy, and the doesn't have seizures and all the rest for high adventure stuff only. Part C should stay as it is, without the Dr having to swear that you meet the high adventure requirements, that don't belong on that form to use at "regular" summer camps that aren't all that strenuous for the most part. Basically Part C form shouldn't be trying to do the work of Park C form and Part D high adventure base form both. They should be two separate forms.

We go back and forth between using the premade driver's licenses from the scout shop and making out own from various places. you can make some here http://bighugelabs.com/badge.php with bar codes and such but it's a lot of work for a big pack.

looking closer at the forms there really isn't a part D form, it's part D words/explanation of what high adventure is and then says they need to have the dr sign part C that they meet the height and weight chart requirements. I think they are trying to have one form do too much completely and medical drs are going to be too confused to figure this out. parents fill out part A&B, and it asks for info about last A1C test, last seizure, last asthma attack, and cpap machines and oxygen. A regular scouter looking at this info, doesn't need to know the date of the last A1C test cause they don't know what that means. Date of test doesn't tell you if diabetes is controlled, the test numbers tell you that. So that is info that should be under part C if at all needed on this form. Dates of last asthma attack or seizure doesn't tell a regular non-medical scouter any info either-- I don't know if it's good if the last asthma attack was last month, I can assume if the last asthma attack was yesterday that maybe you need to be watched carefully for breathing issues. And seizures, well if you had one years ago, it's not so important for me to know the date, but if you have them weekly, I need to know that info and the date also isn't that important, is it? BSA needs to realize that this form is required for cub scouts going to an overnighter at coucil properties. many packs/webelos dens will want it for any activity or campout, so part A & C nees to be based on useful information to the Scouters in charge of the event where a medical practitioner may not be available, but someone with first aid training should be available. They need to know way more about the kids that are allergic to peanuts, milk products, bee stings, and such and what to do about it, than they would ever need to know about immunization status. yes, they need to know about meds, and basic diagnoses, but they don't need to know that you had this or that surgery 10 or 20 years ago. Part A&B needs to be a useful document for scouters at the events, meetings and outings to cover the basics of care with probably enough info to get medical treatment started and contact information for parents and other adults. Part C should be for weekend basic campouts, hikes, regular summer camps, overnighters, where the parents probably don't come-- so you need a bit more background medical information in case someone goes to the hospital. Most of the time for these events you are going to be close to medical care. Part D should be for strenuous events and backcountry outings that last longer than 1 or 2 days (so maybe the 72 hour thing). I really can't think of many service projects that are all that strenuous overall but maybe the big multi day ones where people are more likely to get hurt on the 2nd or 3rd day when they are tired and maybe dehydrated. These could include Philmont etc high adventure. These would require part A-C plus a doctors signature that you meet the height/weight, no uncontrolled diabetes, no uncontrolled seizures, etc. Why does the BSA make this so difficult???

if the FAQ said this Part C is the physical exam that is required for participants in any event that exceeds 72 consecutive hours for all high-adventure base participants, or when the nature of the activity is strenuous and demanding. That would make sense for what the Part C form actually says. Realistically for a scout going even to summer camp for a week where they are not going hardly off the camp and are sitting around doing merit badges all week, Part A&B would be sufficient medical information, you know their allergies, their medicines, and their important contact info. Part C SHOULD just be required for more strenuous activity, not just LONGER in length activity. Length isn't the important factor from a safety perspective, how long it takes to get to help and if the person seems ok for strenuous activity is the important part. Then Part D is for really stenuous activy, long lasting, far into the back woods, high adventure stuff. Interestingly enough under the FAQ part for Part D it says most Philmont Training Center conferences and family programs, will not require completion of Part C. However, participants should review Part D to understand potential risks inherent at 6,700 feet in elevation in a dry Southwest environment. Now if Philmont visits won't require Part C (not D, it says C) for family programs that many last long weekends or week long--then regular stuff for everyone else shouldn't really require part C either. I think there is a failure to communicate between who made the form, and who wrote the FAQ. If those two people are not on the same page, then the rest of us scouters have no hope for being able to figure this out.

I'm all for limiting weight to under 300 lbs if it's somewhere backwoods that you have to haul someone out on a stretcher for miles. yeah, 2 adults and a handful of kids is still going to have difficulty moving you. the faq says basically that kind of backwoods stuff is when you need to meet the height and weight requirement. and then BSA goes and puts height and weight as a requirement for the dr's signature for any over 72 hour camp. so take Webelos to Webelos Encampment, where they don't go off the BSA camp area, they don't do anything that could be a stretch of health or safety issue, yet the leader must pass the height and weight requirement to walk around a little bit and sit in a chair watching the boys try to whittle a piece of wood into a sharp stick to poke each other. Which is BSA's intention? the FAQ says one thing, the form says something else. Make them match, one way or the other, either say you don't want anyone that doesn't meet the health and safety to go on any outings over 72 hours in length (as if length of outing makes it more hazardous) or let the height and weight facts speak for themselves and let the dr sign that the health and medical form is ACCURATE, which is the important part. (This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

well you will probably end up chasing some beads. boys plus beads = someone invariably tips the can or drops their string and they go everywhere. if you take the length of bead string with beads on it, and put the string thru the last bead, loop it around and put it back thru the string again, that should hold the beads in place. if you leave that loop, and then add the new beads, and loop them, if they drop he string, you'll only lose the couple of beads you just added. if that makes any sense. you'll just need lots longer string than you think you would need to do all the loops. alternatively you could tie a knot tight up against the beads after every meeting and not undo the knot, for the same effect of not losing all the beads on the string if the string is dropped.

We just make large folded over signs to stick on tables to designate check in cars placed on table by den judge's table and pit area then we have some checkered flag that we rope off the area that people can't enter without permission. and the webelos 2's sell pizza and sodas to the families while they watch the race as a fundraiser for their first year of going to scout camp.

Could the doctor strike out the part about meeting height and weight and then go ahead and sign it? I guess the Dr. could do so. But doesn't that just drive home the point that the form is WRONG??? Shouldn't the form have that as an option, rather than the dr's declaration that is non-negotiable? Why does the FAQ state that the height and medical is not necessary for cub scout camps and most BSA camps, but that part C is still required for those outings--yet the form itself leave the dr no room for wiggle. There doesn't even have to be that line in the dr's signature or anywhere on the form. The guide for height and weight is on the page, and the person's height and weight is also on the page. if there is a check box for "meets height and weight" that box should be right next to the actual height and weight. Then at camps or outings that require you to meet the height/weight requirement, the med person looks at the check marks, and verifies who can participate.