5yearscouter

We have 70 scouts registered, about 12 aren't coming right now, another handful are hit and miss on attendance. any given meeting usually has 50+ boys at it. no limits, but I know the SPL without more training is at his limit for what he can seem to organize. PL's need to step up and patrols need to be worked on some more cause some are way too big, so kids get lost.

Be consistent. IMHO it makes sense to give the tiger pin to the FEW tigers who earn the summertime award their first summer after joining June 1. and it makes no sense to award a boy who became a wolf on june 1 the tiger pin just because that's his first year doing summer activities. so like my youngest who joined as a tiger june 1st, he was able to earn the award thru 5 summers in the pack, and has one of every color, and then for the 5th one we gave him an old plain gold one we had in the pack inventory of awards. we usually have only a couple boys who earn the summertime award every year for 5 years, so I wouldn't overthink it too much. Be consistent in your pack. It will be ok. This is not a rank badge, it's not rocket science. I will suggest that national made different colored pins for each rank because some packs were giving the summertime pin out once and then not giving it out multiple times cause you already have one you don't need 4 or 5 of the SAME pin. So to get you to buy more pins, they change the color for different ranks, so now you have to make that work in your unit in a way that you and the leaders and the BOYS AND PARENTS can understand.

If you don't want him to be a den leader, then keep the leader you currently have, and find another job for this guy--like helping with paperwork, or doing a task for a campout or pack meeting. See if he handles that kind of responsibility, gets out of his shell, and steps up or not before doing anything else regarding his leadership or lack there of. I could see several reasons why a parent would retreat to their tent at a pack campout that have nothing to do with being antisocial. We had one dad who was a den leader who worked nights, and sometimes in the middle of the day his asst den leader would take over and he'd go to his tent for the rest of the day to sleep. The parents in his den didn't know what was going on until we talked about it. they only knew that he was always wide awake and happy at 6:30pm den meetings but that was because he'd just woken up from sleeping most of the day. We also have parents who don't understand that the den leaders aren't totally in control of the activies and feel like a 3rd wheel hanging around with the den and the group, so they step away and don't help their kid when we think it should be a no-brainer that dad should be right there helping his kids. As for the ADHD stuff, don't go there. Nor the Benedryl stuff. Unless you have a med form in front of you, you do not know if the benedryl is for treating allergies, and that their ADHD is medicated or not. Just cause you don't see ADHD tendencies in a den meeting really doesn't mean a darned stinking thing. If you want to know the diagnosis and treatment and how you as pack leader can help the dad and the den leader help these boys get thru scouting with their diagnosis--as an actual helping hand, not as a way to criticize the dad--then leave the kids diagnoses out of the situation. Just cause you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Are you the den leader of these boys who sees them for an hour a week, or are you a pack leader who sees them in pack meetings and a few other events? I can address the felony issue separately, but so far our council has not denied any applications with a felony listed--as they were not related to harms against children.

Yeah you have to specify in your unit policies and procedures that the money from fundraisers belongs to the unit. depending on how the fundraiser does, a % of the profit will be "paid" to the scout to be used for scouting expenses (list say unform parts, dues, registration, boy's life, summer camps, etc) for the boy who did all the hard work. That the money cannot be cashed out in some way, does or does not transfer with the boy to another unit, and what happens if the boy stops coming. We had a boy with a lot of money in his scout account from many years of popcorn sales, want to use his funds as a down payment on a car. sort of related to scouting, he might use it to get to a campout or the meetings, but not really the intent of the scout account, eh? We also want to be careful about paying for the parent's leader expenses (training, uniform, cost of summer camp, gas) and then the parent also counts those expenses off on their taxes.

according to the guy on this thread http://meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3752&st=0&sk=t&sd=a the new ACPP should address the definition of active. It was supposed to be unveiled at Philmont last week, but I haven't found it posted anywhere yet.

you are rude, that I believe is why you have not gotten your tour permit approved. ppfffftttt

Well the Tour plan says "Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all BSA activities." that is NOT just mentioned in regards to the 2 deep leadership issue. but under 2 deep it says Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders, or Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings..... Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities; coed overnight activitieseven those including parent and childrequire male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. ****The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.****

I will bet that the COR of the crew and the troop is the same person, that the crew and troop have the same chartered organization?

meeting last night. parents filling out names of drivers on their abc medical forms and then filling out permission sips for the summer camp which is basically part B of the med form all over again, but specifically for that summer camp with place for date at the top. it will be interesting since both forms don't match on names of people who can take scouts to/from. does one form supercede the other one if they are dated the same day? 1 form parents were treating as for the troop and the other form parents were treating as for the summer camp. and mostly left the names blank, because they are going out of state for summer camp, and parents assume that they will be called first and they don't know anyone in california they want to pick up their scout.

Our troop does not wear full uniforms all week at camp, we travel in uniform, flags, meals, campfires in full uniforms (including socks with shorts). The boys with positions wear a different colored troop hat with their position patch sewn on the front of the hat. so even if they aren't in uniform, everyone can see who spl or aspl are. the troop makes a souvenir summer camp troop class b tshirt with the name/logo of the camp they are attending. but they don't give out the shirt until right before they are heading home. So they come home in a clean shirt for mommy to think they stayed clean all week at camp. hehe

Just helped with NYLT, and in our council we have patrol boxes with pots, pans, gear, lanterns, stoves, etc. we have 10 patrol box set ups, and can train about 100-120 scouts assigned to patrols that way, without worrying about equipment. Just a suggestion that you've probably already thought of. If you had access to that kind of supplies thing, you could break your groups into patrols, send out the patrol list of members that live close to each other, have them make their menu, email it for approval(if you do that) and have them take care of sharing payment for their own food for the patrol. advise them to share tents and bring the proper gear for an overnight campout however the patrol is able to figure it out. Of course you would need them to meet and determine their patrol leader before doing this. you could appoint a training staff troop guide to each patrol ahead of time, to make sure they've done as much prep work as they need to do ahead of time. Then rotate them thru training sessions by patrols, or 2 patrols together at a time to make it easier to instruct.

Oh dear we do no want to use software and/or a paid professional [accountant] to fill out BSA forms, do we?

Now I said "As a prior CC and as a current COR, I would not *want* to approve your tour permit/plan without addressing that issue in some way. " I didn't say I wouldn't approve your plan. When we travel, we usually want to know what we are getting into and try to be prepared for the possible crud that gets in the way of things going as planned. So when traveling by car, we'll check the oil and look at the tires (quickly), and discuss perhaps what we'd do in the case of car accident, blown tire. Cover with the other drivers where there is cell service, safest routes for travel, #'s for highway conditions. Occassionally we go over with the scouts what we'll do if xyz happens. Doesn't mean we always cover all possible points, but we try to *be prepared*. So on the flight if you were able to answer that you'd covered some of the possible roadblocks and were prepared-- and that the crew members like your own son would have an idea of how to proceed if crud happen, then most likely the plan would be approved. Things like discussing if someone gets sick or incapacitated who you'd want them to contact, exchanging phone numbers with the older crew members(or all), at what point the trip might be cancelled in the middle.. What we'll do if the flight is cancelled, or the connecting flight with you doesn't arrive. How long would the rest wait, what hotel might be a reasonable cost if they arrive before you do, even what we'd need to do to satisfy the High adventure requirements if for some reason the 2nd adult doesn't show up in a timely manner. go thru the what ifs, mitigate the what ifs with as much reasonable information as possible to show the crew members are prepared. That's all. Not roadblocks, not a power trip, not adding to the requirements. Just trying to get the two adults on the tour to agree on how certain things will be handled. I guess that's what I'm left wondering. You are pushing so hard to make this happen. are you sure the other adult is ok with traveling with the remainder of the crew members alone? is that the issue. they don't want the responsibility all by themselves?

I really don't like it when the webelos leaders pick 8 of the 20 webelos pins to work on to get arrow of light. it's too much like telling boy scouts which exactly merit badges they'll have to do for Eagle, and leaving them no choice in the matter. There are required badges, and then there are some they get to choose and elective ones as well. At webelos level I'd like to see the den leader introduce most every webelos pin(often called a webelos badge) even the ones the boys have no interest in. some boys will find geology very super easy for instance. some will HATE IT and refuse to do the last thing they need for the pin. Some boys will crank out sportsman because they love to play sports, some will not get in the water for aquanaut, and some will really struggle with anything introduced in scholar. A good Webelos leader, like a good scout leader, leads the boys to try out different merit badges, not just the things they are already good at, and not totally avoiding everything they think they hate. The boys learn so much from trying something new and sometimes failing. So when I've done webelos, I've introduced a new webelos pin about once a month. we go over quickly the requirements, and which we'll do in den meetings or outings. get ideas and suggestions for where they'd like to go, try to fit in an outing/field trip for each thing. We never do everything in the badge--we leave a thing or two for the boys who are interested in the stuff to finish on their own. and those who didn't really like the badge can just move on to the next one. The boys who want to get all 20 badges, work harder--or their parents nag them to finish things. That varies by boy/family. The "required badges" for AOL we may have to circle back around and try to complete everything in the badge--but do it differently than we did it the last time, do a different outing, use different examples/experiments/games/projects to meet the goals. so the boys who already completed the webelos pin don't realize they are doing something over again that they already did. Always have busy meetings. plan a bunch of things. let the den chief plan things. let the denner lead things. play games. go outside every time you can. go on as many campouts/hikes/day trips/field trips as you can. if you can't go somewhere get a guest speaker. you can find all sorts by asking elementary teachers and parents. have fun. if the boys have fun they'll continue in scouting.

As a parent of a 15 year old, who has flown places with a boy scout troop I think it safest for all trips to include 2 adult leaders on all legs of the journey by airplane. If one gets held up in security, the others have an adult with them until the other adult is cleared. If one gets horribly sick, the others have an adult with them to help them decide whether the trip can continue or how to get home. Very similar to the idea that no less than 4 people- 2 adults and 2 scouts go into the backcountry, so if someone gets hurt/sick/falls in a hole-- someone can stay with them, and 2 others can go for help. IMHO this had nothing to do with the no one on one contact between adults and scouts, and has to do with 2 deep leadership for safety (and not for youth protection from adult abuse reasons). As a prior CC and as a current COR, I would not want to approve your tour permit/plan without addressing that issue in some way. What is the plan for if the one adult on the one part of the trip is delayed in security or gets seriously ill, who will take "custody" of the kids while in route? In a car you pull over and call to find the rest of the group (since you aren't caravaning so they aren't right behind you, but arent all that far away either). In an airport, once past security where the parents can go, once in the air, once in a strange airport, what is the plan at that point if the one adult is unable to do their duties for some reason? I'd also want a contingency plan for if the first leg of your journey is covered, but when it's time to meet up, your airplane doesn't arrive, or it arrives late or without you on board because you missed the flight. For insurance reasons, the other group is definitely flying as part of a BSA unit on an airplane. To claim otherwise to avoid filling out a tour permit for that part of the trip is rediculous. They wouldn't be flying except to get to the high adventure base. they aren't flying for the fun of it.

Richard, I don't want another form.... we kill enough trees in the BSA. the forum could come up with a few tweeks to the medical form so it is a better, more useful form. Just making the FAQ longer won't help. I have typed a bunch of stuff and keep erasing it. I'm afraid you'll take what I suggest and we'll end up with a bigger medical form trying to do more than it already does. [paranoia] parents fill out the med form annually, often right before summer camp, but sometimes at recharter time. The who can take your scout to/from an event belongs on an Event permission slip, rather than on an annually filled out Medical form. Units may use this or a variation of it for their events: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-673.pdf perhaps day camps and resident camps should be using their own permission slip like the above, with the who can transport the scout, and media release added? or maybe get rid of the form in the link. change the FAQ that part B is for Council day and resident camp use. suggest individual units should use something similar for all of their outings.

Stop right there! = you have talked, nagged, tried to reason and told them to read the documents. to what appears to be no avail. YOU are at the point that YOU cannot fix this. A call from the program director, DE, UC, etc is potentially only going to embarrass them and make them more argumentative. so put it all on their desk, in their hands. tell them a short summary of your findings, and then IT'S UP TO THEM!!! Keep poking and they are going to go to war, talk bad about you, kick you out, more hard feelings, etc etc. quit poking. give them the paperwork and tell them to figure it out. don't do it in a petulant way. the stuff is filled out, the form needs their signature. It's now on them and the scoutmaster as leaders of the unit to fix this.

IH= institution head, the head of the chartered organization. CO= Chartered organization. DE=District Executive may be able to help unruffle feathers, but has no real power. UC=unit commissioner, someone who is not a committee member usually, not COR not CC. They can sometimes help as a friend of the unit, has no real power but may settle feathers. You really have no other recourse but to hand the paperwork you've completed, the research you have to the CC. give them a blank copy of the tour plan form if they want to start over. You can suggest that they should call a committee meeting to see if another adult can go on the trip, or if they decide to cancel the trip. your opinion on the matter has been spoken to them, don't go into it again you guys are just butting heads over the details. you could write 1 sentence summary, reiterating why you will be unable to fly with the group. It can be that you are thrifty and it would be unkind and potentially unsafe for your wife to have to drive alone back home from the family reunion.

Stop where you are right now!! print a copy of the tour plan you made. print a copy of the emails back and forth [might want to edit out anywhere you called the CC or COR stupid or misguided ] a write up of your discussion with council(s) by telephone write up a SHORT document that says "This tour plan would be approved by council with your signature Mr. CC. As CC if you do not sign the tour plan as it stands, or alter the tour plan with the name of a 2nd adult who will fly with you, then it appears that the trip is cancelled. I [cannot/will not/am unable/can't afford whatever reason you wish to put] fly to and from where you wish me to fly. As CC, I suggest that you to talk with our COR, SM and IH about this. If you want to clarify with council, the phone # for contact is xyz, nation is xyz. I don't want to argue about this any longer, Please let me know your decision." Hand it to the CC, copy to the SM & COR, maybe to the IH and see what they do. It is not your job as committee member and person going on the trip to fight over the tour plan or to make it work out. It's their job as leaders of the unit to figure out if they can make it work. (This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

The thing is, with little cubbies and maybe young boy scouts, a list of parents makes perfect sense. when you get to be a 15 1/2 year old scout working at summer camp as a counselor in training for the summer, been SPL of a troop with 70 scouts, a very responsible scout-- you have the brains in your head to know who can pick you up even if their name is not on the list. Any of his aunts and uncles could go to summer camp and get him if he were sick--they live 45 and work only 30 minutes away and I'm almost 3 hours away. but I'd then have to list 5 people just for that instance. not counting the handful of people I have locally who could pick him up if he were closer to here. or this summer in san diego my sister or my husbands sister that live close could pick him up there if necessary. So really this list needs to be something done on a less than annual basis. trying to think of all possibilities for a whole year means it becomes a very inaccurate list. also most scouts or scouters have a phone call and can call a parent to determine how they want the scout to go home if the parents don't show up to pick them up.

I'm hoping the patch doesn't change. The consensus from adults running NYLT locally is that it should be two separate events for the crew leadersship and boy scouts because otherwise too much of the info is lost by trying to translate from scoutmaster, patrols, etc to what works for crews. I would hope that national would listen to the people actually running the program and try to make that kind of adjustment rather than ditching all the references to boy scouts to try to make NYLT cater to all units. We are talking training for boy scouts starting at about 13 or 14 years old. some of them will understand the word changes still mean patrol or scoutmaster or troop guides, but some of them it's all gonna go right over their heads.

Jet, If I get a chance I'll go thru the 6 day syllabus and the 5 day syllabus and look for what is missing. My son just staffed NYLT here and has a copy of both. From a quick check it looks like there is less "down time" for reflection and sinking in of what you learned. there really isn't much free time/down time/not someone in your face talking or teaching something to you with a shortened 5 day program. of course the program was shortened to 5 days instead of 6 so LDS scouts don't have to stay overnight on a sunday or saturday night. as to the writing of a "ticket" that seems to be something done locally and I'm not sure why. I'll ask the recent course director if I get a chance. I'll also ask why they are wearing their patches above the pocket.

So back to the original question who has a nice, short and sweet bylaws for a boy scout troop they might share? I'm looking for an outline, not specifics. I'm wanting an introductory page: The Scout Oath and Law governs the operations of the Troop in all respects and applies equally to the Scouts, Program Leaders, Committee Members, Parents, and Siblings when they are in attendance. The program will be developed and run by the Patrol Leader's Council under the guidance of the Senior Patrol Leader, Scoutmaster and his assistants. The Committee's responsibility is to support the program that the Scouts plan, and commitee does not have veto power over the program decided on by the PLC except in the cases of Health and Safety. Operations of the Troop will be run in accordance with the following BSA guides: Guide to Safe Scouting, Scoutmasters Handbook, Troop Committee Guidebook, Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook, Insignia Guide, Boy Scout Handbook, Den Chiefs Handbook, Advancement Requirements Guide, any and all current Merit Badge Pamphlets, Patrol Leaders Handbook, and any other official BSA publications. Any questions can be answered by referring to the appropriate BSA publication. And then detail the things that are specific to our troop in regards to policy and procedure directed toward scouts (knife, cell, soda), policy and procedure for committee/leaders (financial/signers on account/budget/dues and how to change the amount charged and probably something about leaders and how & when to choose them). much of the rest should be summarized in a parent guide that is separate from the above and as short as possible. this includes when meetings are, what & when is PLC, When is committee meeting, a basic overview of uniforms and where to get them, current dues (subject to change), possible fundraisers, contact info for leaders, what the troop provides for a campout and such for new scouts. link to website and email for more info.

So you and family are going by car from home base to the common departure point for the high adventure trip. and the rest of the group is going by plane from home base to the common departure poin for the high adventure trip. What if you did 2 different (or 3) tour plans? 1 detailing the adventures of you and your family to get to the common departure point (and home) or all the way thru the high adventure days and then back home. 1 detailing the adventures of the rest of the group to get to the common departure point(and home)or all the way thru the high adventure days and then back home. might need to do a separate one detailing the adventures of the group all together to the high adventure base and back again to the common departure place since you'll drop off your wife and other kid. Seems there should be a way to accomodate the different modes of transportation for the 2 groups without going to that much trouble. Your family permit would have enough leadership, as you seem to have 2 adults and 2 kids. but the other group doesn't have a second adult for a second tour permit of their own(eh tour plan tour plan tour plan, will get that change of wording thru the head eventually) How to deal with that to satisfy all especially CC/COR who want to see 2 adults with those kids while they fly on a plane. You need to find yourself a frequent flier with air miles to fly to the common departure point and home again with them. or the name of the flight attendant or pilot that is flying and get them to sign on as the 2nd adult on the tour. yes I know this could get a tad bit ridiculous. As a COR/CC myself it's for a cub scout pack, so at that age I would really want to see a 2nd adult on the airplane with the scouts. At the age of your scouts, well it's still a good idea from a safety point of view to have a 2nd adult on all legs of the trip.

oh for permission slips. right now they something like troop leaders have permission to take my child to the doctor/ER/hospital if injured and I am unavailable. What a permission slip/authorization for medical treatment should say is probably somewhere between BSA's out of control document and the above. Not sure the best way to determine what is legally necessary on a permission slip in the state of Arizona. I found revised statute that says Dr hs to have to have parental permission for surgery (which includes a lot of things we don't think of as surgery from a non-medical standpoint) Probably we'll just get the BSA medical form permission slip/hold harmless/let's throw in anythin else we can think of, but the troop committee is concerned because it doesn't specifically state that parents will hold harmless the Troop.