5yearscouter

the scout has prior experience with maps and compass, so his skill in this area isn't a question. He goes hunting where they are sometimes blazing trails to find game and then find their way back to the campsite with maps of the area and a compass. He just hasn't demonstrated that skill on a 5 mile hike since joining boy scouts. he will have to sit out most of this falls hunting I think. Right now the plan is for a couple other boys to go on a 5 mile hike and his job is to navigate a forest service road with trails criss crossing it that can be navigated by truck to reach the place they are headed for meet up with them, and then get back to the starting point. it may end up being a wash if it's just "too easy" according to parent and scoutmaster. but it will give him more experience and keep him engaged even if his book doesn't get signed. so we'll see....

"It has been stated in pieces by several people but the full answer regarding alternate requirements can be found at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/earlyalt.aspx " if you read that link, you would see that it's a checklist of things to do if a disabled scout cannot complete the requirements as spelled out for ranks in their scout book and they want to substitute their own requirements as approved by their doctor that are similar but meet with their specific disability. The change to trip from hike is spelled out in the scout book a substitute requirement for "scouts who use crutches, wheelchairs or have difficulty getting around"-- it doesn't specify that it only applies to scouts who would meet the definition of permanently disabled. The Advancement policy and procedures statement for DISABLED scouts seems to only apply for permanently disabled scouts who need special accomodation and alternatives to rank requirements above and beyond anything listed in the scout book. In that situation you'd complete the steps to use in the link and the doctor must approve any alternative requirements.

Definitely don't want the Troop to be encouraging someone on crutches with a broken leg to be going on a 5 mile walk until released by Dr. He is encouraged to put some weight on the leg and wean from the crutches soon, but that doesn't mean he can transport himself 5 miles without aggravating his armpits and his good leg. Getting around on crutches is not so easy as some of the prior posters seem to think-- just getting around school on crutches thru a whole day can be very difficult. Even once released to resume normal activities, it's not a good idea to go from only walking around school to hiking 5 miles in short order without working up to it. Don't want scouting to be the location of a reinjury or aggravating of the situation.

The Advancement Policy and Procedures Guide for Disability "All current requirements for an advancement award (ranks, merit badges, or Eagle Palms) must actually be met by the candidate. There are no substitutions or alternatives permitted *except those which are specifically stated in the requirements* as set forth in the current official literature of the Boy Scouts of America. Requests can be made for alternate rank requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class.." The alternative requirement I posted are *specifically stated in the requirements* in the boy's scout book, so getting approval from national for alternative rank requirements doesn't apply here. so the question is, do you have to have a permanent disability to use the starred alternative requirement? what if the scout ends up being limited in his hiking ability for longer than a few months, would you make him wait a certain amount of time before considering the trip instead of hike?? I'm not trying to shorty cut the program. The scout will probably wait til he is released by his dr to go on a normal 5 mile hike. The question was to get other perspectives and clarification. He's a go getter new scout, finishing up his trail to first class after attending everything the troop has offered since joining 8 months ago. He's been elected patrol leader of the new scout patrol, and is very excited and active with a dozen merit badges under his belt. Hes got excellent scout skills and spent last night teaching lashings. Going to suggest some "harder" and "a bit more school-like" Eagle required merit badges I guess. He's got swimming under his belt already.

Well the scout book does have a * next to this requirement, which says "If you use a wheelchair, or crutches, or if it is difficult for you to get around, you may substitute 'trip' for 'hike'." So the requirement states Using a compass and a map together, take a 5-milke hike (or 10 miles by bike) aproved by your adult leader and your parent or guardian) so how do you define trip in the place of hike? *if the goal is 5 miles of exercise, that's 5 miles of walking on flat land or otherwise getting yourself from point A to point B in a way that works for your difficulty but is still physical. *if the goal is to use the compass and map to travel over a long distance, what is an appropriate way to travel?--pulled in a wagon by his patrol as he navigates? on a golf cart? in a car? Scoutmaster is thinking about it, so are parents what do you think? As for suggestions, he can't work on star until he gets 1st class. "while a first class scout" preferences the stuff, and he's done with all in 1st class except contacting inactive scouts and he's got the phone list for a few guys to contact. that will take an afternoon. He's got a few merit badges he'll work on, cooking he did as one of his first ones, he and his brother are troop chefs most campouts. but cooking over the campstove while using crutches isn't exactly a good idea most of the time.

So what would you do to keep a scout interested, excited and chugging along, when he has a broken leg at the ankle, in the growth plate, so will be wearing a brace of some kind probably til christmas, and all he needs to do is a 5 mile hike(or 10 mile bike) to finish his 2nd class and 1st class rank badges? he may be released to hike in a month or two, possible bike might be earlier, as it's not so weight bearing, but 10 miles is a long ways. just wonderin. got one discouraged little guy.

It makes sense to me to pull in themes each month, they could be more generic that the pack chooses to go with what they usually do thru the year, and then pull out specific events to highlight the theme. for instance for the month for Courage, use it in October for fire safety prevention month and the local fire safety parade. Have all the dens work on something safety or health and fitmess related. My pack has brand new leadership team this year as I stay on as just COR. It's been hard getting them to just PLAN something for pack meetings, since they can't just pull up a theme page and use it as is anymore. The learning curve for them to find and use other resources is really hurting them and the pack meetings.

We circle up at the end of every meeting and most outings. anything lost or found is shown/announced/asked about. those who claim things sing for their stuff. and it's usually I'm a little teapot, and there are usually about a dozen kids who run out to join in and a couple of adults who do the same, espcially if it's a song with silly hand motions or a dance that goes with it. or the guy in the middle starts the song, and everybody in the circle sings with them. I think the boys see it as an excuse to sing--they like to sing but they don't want anyone to think they are so uncool as to want to sing kid/baby/silly/scouting songs, so they don't sing unless "forced" to sing. I would be hard pressed to see it as hazing. They'd get their stuff(and are told they'd get their stuff) even if they don't sing.

We keep the same den number for the den Tigers thru Webelos. This year's tigers are den #1. If we had enough tigers for two dens they'd be den #1 and den #11. Last year we had Webelos den 3 and den 13. and then they merged for Webelos 2's and are just calling themselves the Indians, number used is 3 cause that was the original den that split into 3 and 13. I like using the last digit of the year for den #. it would make it easier to remember which den # we are using for new tigers each year.

We get usually 35% profit on popcorn sales. We try to "give" 15% to 20% of popcorn sales to the scout, so the pack gets 20-15% to use on expenses. Depending on if we meet or beat our sales goal for the year, we vote in a leader meeting for the % to go to the scouts. Our goal is usually $200 per boy, but we don't count sales individually. in that if you make your goal we don't reward you more or less than if you didn't make your goal, except that you get the %. Money is set aside in a scout account with the boy's name on it but no cash ever changes hands with the parents. the scout account balance can be used for 2 things. to be used to cover all or part of the cost of your registration for the next year (we collect annual recharter fees in Nov/Dec) or to be used to cover all or part of the cost of your day camp or resident camp. If you transfer to boy scouts, we use it to ideally pay from our pack to the council camp directly in your name, so we are still using the $ to benefit our boys going to camp, which seems part of our usual and expected expenses for the unit. I understand that the $ paid at first seems a lot in some instances, that's why we charge $40 registration to brand new boys in August, which covers boy's life, insurance, registration, cost of initial awards until you can help us with fundraisers, and includes the cost of the handbook. sometimes we are able to include a pack tshirt in there depending on how many new boys we get at roundup and the cost of reprinting more tshirts. For recharter we charge $48-$50(depending on whether our treasurer wants to have extra dollar bills on hand due in November after everyone has had a chance to sell as much popcorn as possible, earn their 15-20% to help offset that cost. most of our boys cover 25-50% of their registration for the next year from popcorn sales. Included in the fee we charge is an understanding that the pack will provide your next year's handbook end of May/1st of June at no cost. We usually have a handful of boys who sell enough popcorn to cover their recharter at 100% plus have all or part of day camp covered. The unit also covers registration and day camp costs for boys who cannot afford it, and underwrites those things in some amount for all boys.

I often get a question from a parent, we don't go to church so what do they mean here. I ask them to think of things that someone might do to help their church. it might be something to help the church itself[planting flowers, cleaning the pews] or to help the church with something they are doing for the community[like collecting for a food bank] and suggest they try to do something like that at the family level. We also plan a fall food bank collection, to give them something to help other people that they could consider using for this requirement. but don't overthink it.

If you call the company and you have a good credit rating they may raise the $1000 limit for you, and set the hold rate at a higher amount. but the reviews online are not so good for this company. now, who has $18 unbelievable micro popcorn this year? ours is $20.

the info I have is that it costs 2.75% for each transaction; 3.5% + 15 cents if you have to type in the number. it should be linked to your unit checking account for deposits(not your treasurer's personal checking account), they ask for ssn or ein so they are reporting it as sales somewhere along the line to the irs. and if you have more than $1000 in sales within 7 days, they hold anything over $1000 for 30 days.

Scoutfish you explain it well, why we might want to make sure someone isn't just confused about things as the first step in a discussion like this. Why would we assume someone is just confused? At certain ages and stages of development, it is normal for a young person to feel more attached and comfortable being around people of their same sex. Say you put that normalcy to the test by having some in your peer group develop and go thru puberty at a different rate, and you start to wonder and worry that everyone else likes girls and you are the only guy not liking girls yet so there must be something "wrong" with you. And some of society says that maybe that = gay. Might really screws with a young person.

Well I certainly wouldn't use the linked program exactly as it stands. but I might provide some tidbits from it to a new troop guide who doesn't have a clue how to get started. Hey, check out the forming a patrol page for ideas, remember flag, cheer, elect your patrol leader(or apl if the new scout patrol comes with an older pl). and then after that we have a hike coming up, maybe look at the hiking stuff in the trail to first class, and here's some stuff from the troop program features on hiking, maybe some stuff from that document linked about hiking. Not so much to overwhelm him, but a bit of a nudge. Once he gets his shoes wet and has a feel for the best way to help his patrol move along, he would probably get to the point he doesn't need much of any document outside of the scout book. While a troop guide should be up and raring to go help out the new scouts, sometimes they are totally overwhelmed by the idea of what to do first. If you are in a troop with issues with patrol method and the only teaching, learning, performing and outings are done in a unit at the troop level the boy may not have any ideas outside of that box when the boys in the troop stage a coup and try to take back control of things and use patrol methods and such. So a troop guide and patrol leader trying to do trail to first class for the first time at the patrol level, may not really understand where to start to do this stuff themselves rather than relying on the troop to teach them everything and provide everything. If they are used to a patrol leader as the guy who lines them up for flags, but there is not much else they can do, it often does take a well meaning adult (or document) to point them into a different direction--that a patrol can do all these things themselves at the troop level. My 15 year old life scout found the document and thought the way it suggested using Edge in more concrete ways may be a help to get the boys practically using edge a little bit more. and that all the items do need to be accomplished unless you are sending home all the T21 stuff to do at home with your mommy. But he certainly wouldn't follow the linked document word for word, step by step. But then again, even in our often too much adult led troop, and too much everything at the whole troop level, the boys never do anything an adult may spell out for them exactly as the adult wants them to[which is encouraging to me, but annoying to many others], so I do not see this document as tying their hands, the boys still would take it apart and use only the parts they wanted to use and felt could be helpful. Scout spirit shining thru and all that....

We usually time our advancement to the troop in the Feb/March time period, to coincide with joining the troop a week or two before one of the troops easier campouts of the year. a campout that is not a backpacking trip right off the batt, where the new guys won't have the supplies to join right in. By timing our crossover to fit the troop's calendar it allows the young scouts to join and learn how the troop works on campouts right away. so rather than us telling you what works for us, check with your local troops and find out what works for them. Those who push webelos to be closer to a 1 year program, must be dealing with boys who are much more mature than ours have been. Boys grow up so much during the 5th grade, become a lot more independent and more able to handle the bigger responsibility necessary to fit into a troop. Also all of our troops around here are large troops, and don't seem to use new scout patrols, so the boys have to be able to fend for themselves a bit stuck into such a large group. boys who have barely turned 10.5 with AOL and join boy scouts seem to drop out at a higher rate than those who have a teeny bit more age on them, to the spring of 5th grade year. That doesn't mean spending the fall of 5th grade year boring them to death with classroom style webelos badges one after the other. but with a little planning, all those things can be done in the webelos book in the outdoors, with lots of hikes and campouts and having the boys plan their own meals, meetings, and running things a bit more. not quite boy scout level, but not cubbies level arts and crafts.

Mom talked to scoutmaster he says his hands are tied he cannot tell her anything without permission of the committee. she talked to the CC he says he does not know details of the meeting, and suggests an in person meeting to find out what is going on, that he did not tie the scoutmaster's hands to keep him from talking to her. She called me and asked who could have tied the scoutmaster's hands. I told her I would imagine that if SM had reported to the SE that the SE could have told him not to talk about it, and she should call the SE to find out if it's been reported. She is afraid that if she talks to the SE that she will have burned all bridges and there is no way to keep her son in this troop that up until recent year has been a very fine troop. Her son wants to fight to get the troop on track, not abandon it. so she wants to wait a bit. I suggested she tell the CC, COR and SM that she needs the report of what went on in that room and any allegations against her son by tonight or first thing in the morning. and then she has no reason not to go to the SE. we shall see....

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/docs/2010troopguide.pdf this is a not bad document of what a troop guide could do, and how they could do it, to help a new scout patrol thru the T 2 1st class requirements.

Well, scout's mom is pissed. Scoutmaster won't talk to her. Won't tell her what accusations are against her son or what kind of thing they are investigating. Let's see if committee chair talks to her. In the morning will talk to the scout executive. She knows that if an allegation of sexual abuse has been reported to the SE that she may not get any info, hopefully she'll at least be told if something was reported or not. Sigh. I'm pretty sure she'll also be at the next committee meeting Monday night.

I haven't made any weird calls or freaked out on anyone in person or yelled or called the scout executive. yet. I think I'm being quite rational in my exploration of this subject. supporting my son as he supports his friend, and worrying. the troop has way too much drama recently. we did not need this to be an adult overreaction. I go back and forth between thinking the adults are meany heads that wanted to scare and run off this scout or that they must have been thinking it was such an important topic that the more people who knew what was going on the better. however it really looked like an inquisition when the scout was called into the room. the whole troop was waiting a half hour for this confernece to be over and you knew it was not good from the looks on their faces when they came out. The boys in the troop know that the scoutmaster told the Scout he couldn't be SPL, they may not know why. the scout's side of the story to my son and his mom are the same. If you knew him you'd know he doesn't tell tales to adults. That's just not who he is. He will tell you straight up why he said what he said, that it worked to shut up the bullies but that it was a poor choice of words. If they are looking for inappropriate discussions over the last year in a group of 50+ teenaged boys with about 20 of them older scouts, they will find inappropriate discussion if they look hard enough. it's the nature of older boys who camp 30 or more nights together. yeah they might talk about the birds they saw today while hiking but just as likely to be teenaged things all teenaged boys talk about--sex, drugs and rock and roll, farts and athletes foot.

The stuff at camp happened in June when working at camp staff on the other side of the state. This is August. Blindsided = stuff was handled at camp, and now is brought up like it's an emergency situation. The scout did not ADMIT he was bisexual. The scout threw words back at a group of bullies to get them to shut up. Not the most mature thing but certainly not worthy of an inquisition. taking a scout aside to discuss appropriate or inappropriate conduct is a quiet scoutmaster's conference. Not 5 adults in a room with a scout with the door closed while everyone else in the troop is on the other side of the door wondering what the heck was going on. Youth protection is to protect the scouts. Bullying doesn't just happen scout to scout, the adults in my opinion were bullying and intimidating and threatening the scout. But hey, the scoutmaster's son was chosen SPL and the married co-ASM's son was chosen ASPL so all is right with the world? While the female ASM was the one leading the inquisition and then turned around and told her teenaged daughter enough to know what was going on. you know, so the whole high school could also find out what was rumored, in case it wasn't going around high school too. The scout in question's mom will be having a meeting with the 5 adults next week. seems nobody will meet with her except on scout meeting night.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

IH is definitely not going to reply to a request by me--they have gone thru bankruptcy and mostly speak Japanese now(international arm of the business isn't bankrupt just yet). The more I think of this, I think they are running an investigation. it may be alleged abuse, or it may be just checking to be sure there isn't any abuse. The rumor started at scout camp where a bunch of the troop boys were working this summer. Lots of pretty girls working there, so the competition of boys for girl attention was a bit much. So to limit the field of competition, there was a bit of Oh you don't need to pay attention to this scout or that Scout cause he's gay. may have started as just a joke, but over and over and over and then they keyed in on how much it botherred the Scout in question. So they did it more, and it reached rumor stage. whispering did you hear Scout is gay? My son says he yelled at one of the bullies one day after hearing them talking about him in the laundry room, "I'm not gay, I'm bisexual" [insert other colorful language here] Shut the bullies up, they just could not think of what to say about that and the bullying stopped. He had previously told his mom about the bullying and the camp staff but nobody did anything. not the best way to deal with it, but he's a kid and kids do stupid **** . One scout picks up on this and starts telling a few people when they get back home from working on staff that Scout admitted that he's bisexual to him personally at camp. so then the facebook picture from halloween where the Scout is wearing black fingernail polish is "proof." And anything scout may have done over the last few months gets viewed with that filter that he's a deviant. I have to make a phone call or two. I think this is going to blow up. It won't be anythig quietly taken care of without hamr to the Scout. COR knew the rumor. He's potentially the one, or his son is the one who told the SM about it and convinced him to investigate.

COR was present and knew that the 5 people took the Scout into the scoutmaster's office and closed the door and had a conversation. I know he had heard the rumor, so he may be in the know as to how they agreed to handle this. CC came in at the end of the meeting to pass off the Eagle paperwork for his son, he's quitting and a committee was discussing new CC to take over next week. IH is out of the state/ineffective/absent leadership. The scoutmaster had called the other boys who were thinking of SPL position with 1 ASM present I think. Then they called in the scout and invited in the room full of adults to grill the scout. I was outside at this point. When I came inside everyone was trying to keep busy talking about upcoming stuff, making announcements, tapping their toes and waiting since the theme of the evening was troop elections and key persons were locked in the room and elections could not continue until they came out. The scoutmaster's office is usually just a desk and filing cabinet for storage of rank badges, medical forms and applications and such. scoutmaster might do a scoutmaster conference in the scoutmaster office just so they can hear if the main room is too loud, but the door stays open. sometimes I think that's a bit too private, but people are always sticking their head in the door to get stuff out of the scoutmaster's office. I would like the scouting world to stop. I want to get off. this is not fun. I guess I should call the scout's mom and see what she thinks and help her figure out what to do next.

I'm a bit afraid of typing too much info about a minor's sexuality. However, I'm not comfortable with SM and 4 ASM blindsiding a 17 year old Life Scout with a half hour grilling about the rumor of his sexuality. 5 adults against 1 scout. really? The rest of the troop sits outside the scoutmaster's office waiting for them to come out so we can do Troop elections. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of these 5 adults saying to a scout "We are investigating your sexuality." The adults are also going to "make sure" the Scout hasn't done or said inappropriate things to other scouts on campouts. The Scout was told he could not be SPL or ASPL until his name is cleared. The Scout's parents weren't notified of this meeting. At 17 years old, he comes to meetings without his mommy and daddy. My son was afraid for his friend last night. Even though the Scout told my son not to tell anyone what went on in the meeting, My son called the Scout's mom last night to check on him when he wouldn't return txts. He told her to talk to her son about what happened in the meeting. She said they were just in a big family meeting about it and trying to figure out what they should do next. I'm glad he checked on his friend and told the mom enough info to be concerned because teenagers might consider suicide when stuff like this comes down on them. I understand that BSA is against homosexuals and bisexuals, so this boy's continuing BSA membership and chance at finishing his Eagle are in jeopardy. youth protection boundaries anyone? how can an adult investigate a minor's sexuality? If the SM has any reports that the scout did something inappropriate to another scout, that should already be reported to CPS. I'm just at a loss. This boy is a friend of my son for the last 4 or 5 years. They tented together for 4 weeks straight this summer. My son worries that if the "troop adults think he's gay or bi, where does that put their opinion of me since I slept with him for a month?" I advised my son that he perhaps shouldn't phrase it like that.

While I understand if a cubmaster comes in and locks down a den to only do certain things each month is not going to work in all cases and of course each den must work on the things in their rank level, not at a different level. But if you are working out of the 2010 cub scout plans, they are pretty darned pre-planned-- do it this way or else it messes up the flow of the achievements, the stuff that tells the den leader where they stand in the program gets all messed up if you use them out of order. and it gets confusing. especially if you are trying to recruit new scout leaders for a super small or dying pack like the Original poster. I think that the lessons plans should and could easily be aligned to do similar things each month to help facilitate pack meetings. I see the whole pack as one unit that works best if they are all sort of on the same page instead of each den doing something totally different. The years where our den leaders chose similar themes each month and used those to plan their meetings was the year people really got super involved and excited in our pack. We didn't necessarily use the cub scout themes, but things like this month we'll work on whatever citizenship things in our book in our dens. and it made planning and leading pack meetings so much easier. Each den showed off their materials that were similar, built upon each others work, each den working at their own ability level. the dens knew what the pack would be talking about and doing at the pack meeting, so they'd hit that in their book, but den leaders had time to throw in other things depending on the rank and abilities and interests of their scouts. It also made planning the pack meetings more fun. If we were doing citizenship, we might have the mayor come visit, walk in the veteran's parade together, or go to the city hall and have that be our pack meeting for the month, instead of sitting in the school cafeteria for another month. The kids and parents got a blast out of doing things that way. year after year doing the exact same field trip, mayor's visit etc would get very old, but there are enough options for these things that it wouldn't have to be boring. MANY times it made the den leader's life easier. usually one den leader would go searching in the old program helps, pow wow books and google and end up with a wealth of materials that they could use and a bunch that was too easy or too advanced, so they'd pass stuff on to the other dens. when they took turns, the den leaders could get great ideas for every month, but only have to do the extra work every 5 or 6 months. Realize also that most cub scout packs are small. If the LDS scouts make up 70% of the scouts in the US, most of them are in packs of less than 10 boys who often meet in the same place at the same time and share den leaders. it would make those dens more successful if the dens were at least all doing nature crafts in the same month--the den leader would already have it spelled out in front of them thru the cub scout 2010 program how to do different things in each rank level and not have everyone doing the same thing, so the boys don't want to stick around the next year and have to do the same thing again. Does that make sense?(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)