5yearscouter

yeah I could see our camp rangers getting cross about moving tents around too. They'd need a LOT of reassurance that the scouts would put everything back how they found it at the end of the week.

I'm pretty sure both my sons should have the camping segment with a pin thingy. They are low on hours on the water, but did go to a San Diego beach camp and got a lot of hours there so I'd have to go thru and add them up plus other hours swimming and boating/canoeing. They certainly are low on the high adventure stuff and the others too. There is something at the troop level for most of these, but may not be enough that a boy who is with the troop from 11-18 still might not get enough hours/miles. So it would be a good thing to suggest to the scouts to kick it up a notch.

For older cub scouts[Webelos age] I don't like them tenting alone because they get scared in the night and need the buddy system so they have someone to be scared with. for boy scouts, sometimes the newest youngest guys should be advised to always tent with someone for the same reason, especially their first summer camp away from mom and dad. But for all the rest, let them figure it out.

den leader has to approve the achievement is completed, not just parents. So right there you move away from mom and dad signing stuff just because they read it and think that their son must have done it some time at day camp or at school. Involving a 2nd person, non-family in the process is like involving a mb counselor. They get to sign the achievement when they see it as completed. Therefore they tend to expect that swim 100 ft actually means swim 100 ft, not attempt to swim 100 ft but don't make it, not read the requirement to swim 100 ft but never get in the water. I define do your best to be actually trying to do your best, not just using do your best as a cop out to not even try. do you define it differently?

I believe it's in the eagle project workbook packet, at least with our council it is. He should have an Eagle counselor or guide who can provide him the correct form.

Yes, they don't have to pass the BSA swimmer test, but they do have to swim. the top required 3 parts of the badge all include getting into the water and swimming. [paraphrased requirements below] 1. swim 100 feet, half as backstroke, 2. back float and survival floats 3. swim 25 ft with a PDF on. then choose 3 of the following 5 4. front surface dive and swim under water 4 strokes, 5. explain water rescue techniques and demondstrate reach and throw. 6. with an adult onboard show handling of a rowboat (I see this as only being able to occur at council camps due to guide to safe scouting) 7. pass BSA swimmers test or 8. earn the swimming belt loop (which requires safe swim knowledge, play a game in the water with your den or family and kickboard across the pool 25 ft) I do not see how the youth can do 1-3 with a severe fear of the water. nor 4, 7 or 8. 6 would be a bad idea to do if the youth is afraid of water why put him in a boat? that leaves 5 as the only one that doesn't require the scout to get into the water. That means he's not a swimmer not even a beginning swimmer, so why should he earn the Aquanaut badge. My son couldn't earn it the first time he tried, he couldn't pass the #1 without getting a bloody nose and having to get out of the water.

Boys got in a fight with the new SM when he told them to sit down and shut up. Lack of respect on both sides, but started when SM told the ASMs they couldn't talk to the boys unless it was health and safety issue and any non ASM adults the boys should ignore if they talk to them because this is a boy led troop. [we always have a couple extra adults drive scouts to camp, and when camp is out of state they stay for the week instead of going home and coming back ] So then the Scout got caught up in the scouts ignoring all ASMs and other adults and they started ignoring the SM. yeah that didn't go over well but I think SM should have known better than to give teenage boys permission to ignore adults, they are usually pretty good at that already. The report is the camp itself was a very very nice camp. usual things need improvement/repair but there is never enough $. Camp is huge and very spread out. Camp recommends bringing bikes for a reason, scouts who didn't bring bikes complained. some adults complained that they never saw any adult program/area directors, youth reported the adults just didn't recognize an adult 18-21 ish program/area director when they saw one. The night horsemanship sucked because it was cleaning stalls and feeding horses, and then sleeping out by the barn. In comparison the Night shooting was great because it was night shooting and then sleeping out by the range. And night fishing was similar, fishing and sleeping out by the lake. ATV and Pistol pilot programs were a huge hit. They should have advised the ATV scouts to bring long sleeved shirts and dust masks. My oldest is still blowing out brown boogers. Food wasn't bad but the amount served wasn't enough, so the scouts AND adults were hitting up the PBJ bar at lunch and dinner. That wasn't so nice for the scout allergic to peanut butter cause then he couldn't be around anyone who had peanut butter for a while.

Disability accomodations only apply to the actual rank requirements, or getting a substitute badge for AOL or boy scout ranks. I've never seen disability accomodations for the optional elective portions of ranks/badges/belt loops at the webelos and higher level. Below Webelos trying it is good enough, but when a scout refuses to try, we don't reward that level of non-participation with a badge. Since Aquanaut is not required for the Arrow of Light Rank, it's an optional elective within the Webelos program. Instead of doing that badge in the physical skills area, your son can work on a different badge in that area for his AOL. Like Boy Scouts, Webelos gives the boys a chance to earn the badges that interest them, with a few of them required for the rank, so we have had boys earn AOL with all sorts of permutations of the 20 badges available. We always have a few boys who never complete Aquanaut because they cannot pass the swim portion. And that's ok. It gives them something to work on, since much of the Aquanaut requirements are virtually the same as the Rank requirements in the trail to 1st Class. Note: We view Webelos as sort of a step above Do your best, so we expect the boys to try it and do what they can and they are often surprised at their ability. But if they don't actually do the requirements for a webelos badge, they don't get handed the badge. We also view swimming as a very important life skill, so we do hope nobody gives out swim test levels based on how hard you tried to pass the swim test, rather than how well you actually did on the swim test.

BD, I would at least insist thru the pack leaders that any adult attending any camp has to take youth protection training. and they should really take safe swim defense. and that they need to realize that they will be helping to supervise other scouts in the pack/den. and that there are bugs and only cold showers and the food kinda sucks. And that none of the other youth with have both parents there so the kid might get laughed at. I mean don't out and out lie, but discourage them from going. Actually the YPT and Safe Swim would be requirements in our pack for doing an overnighter. And then see what happens. If they won't stop playing around long enough to take care of their kid, they probably won't follow thru on going to camp. they might surprise you--and along the way they'll learn something and maybe surprise their kid. Now how about a scout dad (he's even a leader now) submitting to his son's ISA the cost of gas to drive scouts to campouts ad the stops at mcdonalds for food? And family camping gear that may get used by the scout dad on troop campouts. Oh and paying for the whole family to stay in a hotel when the troop went skiing and stayed in a hotel instead of cold weather camping. There are worse ways to misuse an ISA.

I think I posted a new topic! over in cub scouts. I'm afraid to think that it might actually work!!!????

Does this thing work now?

If a counselor says tough luck, you lost your blue card and have to start over, having the info in TM doesn't do any good, since that's not a blue card.... how can you reissue a blue card from the info in TM? You aren't the mb counselor so you can't sign off on partials even if you have it written down in TM.

National doesn't care about partials and national doesn't care about the boy or the troops copy of the blue card. some councils I guess collect copies of completed blue cards but I'm not really sure why they would go to that much trouble. programs like troopmaster care about partials, but it doesn't really do much good unless the mb couselors can use it to see what they haven't covered with the scout yet, but a blue card does that just as well or not better. We track completed merit badges in internet advancement which goes to national and that program will provide a copy for any scout that needs one due to his house burning down, and if required for his eagle we would recreate all merit badge cards marking them with the correct date they were earned but really that is adding to the requirements IMHO. I don't like dealig with tracking partials on ranks either, although I can see the merit in using that info to help decide what the direction the troop needs to head in order to ensure the scouts can earn their next ranks. but I see that as info the youth leaders should have for planning patrol meetings, troop meetings and outings--and we very rarely allow the youth to see the programs such as troopmaster for anyone's records except maybe their own. So then it's just adults entering things in the computer in order to enter things in the computer. partials for summer camp are valid to keep track of, but why is it my job as an adult leader to keep track of them rather than the youth? should a merit badge counselor accept a print out from troopmaster of what things the boy has already completed in the badge, knowing that the print out from troopmaster doesn't have a mb counselor's signature on it so who knows how accurate it is since it's passed thru several hands being entered into the system. the scout should just keep his blue card showing the partials, shouldn't he?

Basement, Even if the problem scout was the real reason that they quit, they probably wouldn't come back. Because it's a lot easier to sit on your duff playing xbox and txting rather than to get up and go to a scout meeting. In 8 years of doing this, I've only known of one scout who stopped scouting and then came back, and that was with a huge push from his parents. If you stop scouting, it seems easier just to stay stopped than to restart. But regardless, this isn't about the 2 scouts who quit. and it isn't about the scout who was suspended and should probably leave the troop. it's about the boys who are still in your troop, the ones who are there and they need the adults to sometimes step up and get rid of the bad apple that is causing grief to their friends.

A update from Terry about what he's tried and what he's beating his head against the wall over, and what we could do to help would go a long ways toward getting him the help he needs. But the quiet is deafening.

I thought I replied to this. why would I check out an app that allows a tiger to earn boy scout merit badges?

basement, we've done cooking contests and awarded the golden spoon. which is a dollar store wooden spoon painted gold. easier than trying to paint a wisk maybe?

Basement, I see you took my advice to find a similar thread and bump it up and turn it into your own since we can't make new posts. We have a brand new SM as of last week. He is just out of cubbies so enthusiasm is really HIGH, and he's been an ASM in the troop for a while, so he does have some experience. He's looking for things to change and improve. Unfortunately our troop functions as a unit, everythig is run more like troop method than patrol method. Patrols exist only as a way to take attendance, line up for flags, and they make a menu for a troop campout, but they'll end up as an ad hoc patrol on the outing. My sons (13 ad 17 year olds) haven't figured out how to create such a big change-- my 17 year old especially spent a year as SPL beating his head against the wall with old SM who was very troop method oriented. New SM gives them hope for patrol methods. Basement your challenge ribbons do sound like something he might like and the scouts might buy into. Of course, they might not.

It might be easier for Terry[or someone else] to just to start a new scouter.com forum after testing that things work, and keep the old threads on this forum as a back up searchable resource, but lock all the threads so they can't be posted in. Heck it seems like they are already locked down and nobody can post in them, eh? I get a little bit of info at the meritbadge.net forums but not the activity level and info level of what has been here, and certainly no debate. I'm not sure where else is good, so many have moved to facebook and I don't facebook. I waste enough time on the internet without it.

basement I'd suggest you could find an old post that is similar to the one you want to ask, and bump it up with your question? or is everyone going to a different community to talk now?

Yeah our scout camps have enough ammo for basically the first 2 or 3 sessions and then they'll run out for the rest of the summer.

Referencing the first post in this thread, I still think it's absurd the inconsistencies between the different BSA documents. If a Wolf scout is going to assemble the Outdoor essentials that includes a pocketknife, and then discuss why he would want a pocketknife on an outing like a hike -- it makes no sense to me that said wolf scout after discussing how important these things are, is not supposed to actually carry the pocketknive or maybe he could have the pocketknife in his outdoor essentials that someone else carries? Outdoor essentials really should ot be shared by two people, because if they get separated each is only half prepared.

New guide to safe scouting/ Age appropriate guidelines-- only Bears and Webelos and up can use pocketknives, no morepocketknives for wolves like it used to be.

I copied and saved the scenarios from the COR survey questions if anyone else wants to see them. They were worded weirdly to me. Like is it acceptable or unacceptable for the troop leader to allow an openly gay and heterosexual boy to tent together. um, it depends on whether the scouts are choosing their tent mates and agree to this, or if the adults are choosing tent mates. As long as the youth are ok with it, it shouldn't be an issue. it's not like the heterosexual scout will catch the gay from the gay scout. My suggestion to national is local option, and to provide some suggested policy statements for each side. So if a unit chooses to allow homosexual scouts and leaders,maybe they do want to cover tenting situations or other policies to clarify things. and if a unit chooses to disallow homosexual scouts or leaders, especially if their CO is not one of the churches with that opinion, their policies might need to include xyz to coverall bases. I don't know, regardless of where this goes things are going to get wonky for the while.

The problem we've run into when this kind of thing happens, is that the other parents and the other scouts start to talk. a bit of "how did he get the bear badge he hasn't come to any meetings." and a bit of morale issues arrise, other scouts and parents think maybe they can just sign off that they did stuff when they really didn't or that they can earn something without ever coming to a meeting. We do have a pack rule that if you are absent from meeting for 3 months, you are considered not a member anymore wtihout somethings changing. We will have a serious discussion about whether scouting is for you and your family or not. sometimes it's illness or sports or grades or other thing that is reasonable and can be accomodated. So we try to have a sit down with cm and cc and den leader and parents to discuss what can be done at home, what should be done in the den mtgs (there are a few parts of achievements even in Bear that say do with your den or in a den meeting) and which items are going to be more fun if they just come do it with the rest of the scouts. If a parent complains about a den leader, one of the pack leaders will sit in on a meeting and talk to the den leader and see if recommendations should be made. sometimes it's simply helping the den leader get more organized, sometimes it's suggesting that the complaining parent step up and lead an activity to help the den have a balance (some dens are too much activity, some are too much crafts and some are just an unorganized mess). we remind every parent that we are a team. In this instance if I were CM I would invite the parent to come back to a den meeting and see what it's like. I would ask the den leader to do the same, on the phone, not by email--and remind the parents m that den leaders grow and change thru a year, so what they saw at one mtg would certainly not be the same 6 months or so later. and then after the mtg sit down and look thru the book and see what the den leader might be able to repeat (some of the flag/citizen stuff maybe), and which items they are plannign to do anyway (so many of those electives are left over) that would count toward Bear and make up a plan with the parents for what to do at home. And then put it firmly in the parent's court. I would not give the Bear badge without at least seeing the book. CM is not den leader, sure they can do the signing and approving of the rank, but in our pack that wouldn't fly--den leaders are the ones that submit ranks, cause otherwise parents try to do end runs around den leaders, and cubmasters spend too much time doing den stuff, not doing pack stuff.