Torveaux

Teachers and administrators do not want to have to actually evaluate things. Much easier for them to overreact. I guess it all depends on where/when you went to school. Back in the day, everyone in my HS had a rifle or shotgun hanging in back of their pickup trucks. Pocketknives were carried by almost all boys and likely a couple of the 'girls'. It was what you did with things that was important. Now it is the objects people fear, not the users.

One problem that could arise from D&D (or other kinds of games) is that they can become havens for cliques rather than open opportunities for everyone to play. I see this problem more likely with games like Magic where the player really needs to own their own deck in order to play. If the boys playing D&D are part of a regular group that plays together and are unwilling to accommodate additional players, I would discourage or ban it use (more appropriately, I think a general rule of such activities should be that they must be willing to accommodate anyone who wishes to play). A well-run role-playing game can include anyone who wants to join in. Bridge and other traditional card games can turn into tournaments that widen the number of potential players. Personally, I would prefer my son spend his 'free' time at camp doing outdoor activities and enjoying nature. Playing card games and role-playing games are better suited for indoors / bad weather.

It seems to be that you have two choices. 1) Everyone sticks together as a group, preventing such situations, but slowing down everyone to the pace of the weakest link. 2) Have more adults along so they also have buddies.

I must say that I disagree heartily with Merlin's thought process, but his goal is a good one. Having units chartered directly by public schools is a bad idea for both. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Constitution as the document is silent on the issue. Attempts to tie it to the 1st Amendment are spurious at best. Those using such spurious ties are merely attempting to bend the law into their own political nirvana. The BSA should avoid ties to public schools because the public schools often represent and encourage the opposite of the goals of the BSA. That is not to say that both organizations should not try to work together to do what is best for children. The mission of the public schools is to educate the populace. The BSA helps in that goal. Public schools should encourage participation in the BSA or other similar groups, regardless of the religious aspects of those organizations. To do otherwise DOES directly contravene the Constitution as it prohibits the "free exercise thereof". Schools must either permit BSA and other similar organizations to meet in their facilites or they can permit no meetings whatsoever. That includes PTA/PTO meetings or any other function not directly educating children. If we really want a non-religious (as opposed to atheistic)education experience, only actual facts could be taught. Courses must be reduced to Mathematics, Grammar, and such. All social engineering, most science, and literature/music must be excluded as it reflects the collective beliefs of one or more individuals and could be construed as religious or anti-religious. In short, get units sponsored by civic groups, but have them meet in schools and have schools encourage participation.

There are spreadsheets created out there for Tigers-Webelos. Here's a link to one. They also have one for the Academics/Sports program. It is free and I used them with great success. There are more sophisticated programs available for a fee that link the whole Pack together. http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/cub-tracker.html

To those who equate being overweight with not being physically strong...it does not say physically fit, it says strong. I fit into the technically obese category. If I were an NFL athlete, I would be about right for my height! I am about the same size as a Strong Safety. Rather than getting obsessed with the size of others, how about we all Do Our Best to do what works best for us.

I guess this has devolved into two different questions. 1) What do you consider pornography? and 2) Is viewing it a violation of the Scout Oath? I shall answer thusly.... 1) I think pornography is more akin to graphics or text intended to sexually arouse the viewer. All nudity is not pornography; pornography need not include images or nudity. Examples: I would consider a sexually graphic story to be pornographic (pornotextic?). I would not consider a nude classical Greek statue to be pornographic. Hence, I can clearly not choose the glass in front of you. 2) I think that if something violates your own moral code, it would be a violation of the morally straight concept. The trick comes in that what you may consider pornography may be viewed as art by others. Viewing by you would be a violation; viewing by the others would not. Let's take the example of the lingerie mailings. If you are viewing them so you can buy something nice for your wife, it would not be a violation. If you are viewing them in a lecherous manner, it is likely a violation. So, I clearly cannot choose the glass in front of me. I guess I do not really acknowledge a difference between soft and hard porn. Images are either offensive, or they are not. There is no try, there is only do or do not. Also, since I think sex and sexuality has little place in teaching boys to be good leaders, I think any use of materials that even stray into the grey area should be absent from Scouting functions. Inconceivable! On a side note: alcohol has been proven to be healthful in small doses and harmful in large doses. Categorizing it as a biotoxin would also place water and salt in the same category as both can kill in large enough doses. If I was the king of Scouting, I would take the British approach. I think children need to understand the difference between behavior that is acceptable for adults and acceptable for children. They actually could benefit from seeing adults use alcohol in a responsible manner. When we treat a legal substance with such secrecy it only serves to pique the imagination of some boys. There is a big difference between modeling good social behavior and getting intoxicated in public. I see nothing fundamentally wrong with Scouters having a beer around the campfire or a glass of wine in the dining hall.

Like many inert things, D&D and any other role playing game is a vehicle that can be used for good or for evil. A particularly devout individual may be inclined to play as a cleric bent upon spreading whatever faith he espouses. These characters often are seen as champions against evil. As for camp, I could see a situation where role playing games could be used as a teaching tool or as part of some training. Like any 'free-time' activity, it can be a distraction. I tend to be with those who see camp as a unique opportunity to learn outdoor skills and things like D&D and video games are best left for cold winter days at home.

I guess I'll play devil's advocate here. It sounds like there may be some big voids in information here. I am aware of some situations wherein a boy is too busy to actually perform his leadership duties, but still wants the SM to accept unperformed duties for leadership toward rank advancement. In at least one of these situations, the family decided to move to a different troop in the hopes that they could push around the new SM. I am not accusing anyone here, it just seems like if the same thing is happening in two troops, perhaps there is some communication problem between what is being said by the SMs and what the Scout is hearing and bringing home. In my son's case he moves along faster than his peers because he is the brainy nerd type (and I say that as a proud father) that spends more time on Scouting than on club sports. I would have no interest in seeing my son achieve rank first unless he earned it first. The fact that I am his den leader only means that I am more aware of what he needs to do than the average parent. I also expect more from him than his peers' parents expect from their kids.

I recommend reading the Kipling's Jungle Book. Disney used the characters for its version, but there are differences. Puppet shows can be very simple. The boys can make bag-puppets for Akela, Mowgli, Baloo, Sher-Khan, etc. and 'act out' a scene or two from the book. I think it would work better if you let them use their own words for based upon the scene. BTW, reading the book is one step for the 75th Leader Award.

This is a topic most of us either have or will have to deal with, whether it is sports, music, or chess club. meamemeg, that could be about as bad as asking the boy to choose between mom and dad. I don't see a reason he cannot reasonably do both. We seem to have these conflicts all year long. Soccer is my pet peeve because they cannot even stick to one season. The coaches and other players badger the kids into spring, fall, winter (indoor) and summer leagues. At least most of the other sports stick to one season and do not try to be the only part of life. Sorry, I'll climb down from the soapbox now. Kittle, I would use something similar to what molscouter suggested. I would have the boy go to all of the games and skip (or leave early from) all of the practices that conflict. Show up late for Scouts on game days. It is not as though these are the only practices for the sport. You may need to modify the selections for yourselves. If your boy is headed for a baseball scholarship your choices may be different than if he is just trying to impress dad or hangout with friends. Molscouter, great idea having a definitive policy at home. We have a less formal process but we also factor in the investment/value. If we have paid a great deal for the baseball league and a game conflicts with a potential campout, he should play the game. This is not only about the money, but about a committment he made to his teammates. There will be other campouts. (Summer camp is a big exception for me.) This year we opted out of all summer leagues due to family conflicts. We will make a concerted effort to do more clinic type programs and parent/child sports to make up for the lost opportunities.

I understand the rationale for a new scout or someone like your son that had outgrown his uniform, but there is no requirement for all of the boys in the same den to make the same choice. My son will remain in his blue shirt until he outgrows it or crosses over. Your situation underlies one of the reasons that having a rigid uniform pant policy makes no sense. Our boys all wear the same blue pants that they wear for school. Those Webelos who wear the tan shirt still wear the blue pants. Frankly, I think it looks better and helps to keep the Webelos apart from the Boy Scouts.

Not to get too far off topic here, Judy, but where does the DL get off requiring a specific uniform. Webelos can wear either the blue or the tan shirt. The DL does not really get to choose (except for his own son).

So Merlyn, If atheism is a religion (as you seem to be saying) then by removing other religions from government is exactly what you claim to be fighting against! What you are advocating is tantamount to government endorsement of the religion of atheism. You don't get to have it both ways. I have quite a few atheist acquaintences, and they all try to avoid being considered a religion. The reason is simple, if atheism is a religion (I believe that it meets the requirements as well), then the ACLU argument that seeks to exclude other religions from government places is disengenuous at best and quite likely fraudulent. I also gather from the tone of your posts that even if Scouting had no ties to the government whatsoever, you would still oppose the existence of the organization. You would oppose Scouts marching in parades, because you shouldn't have to see kids that have values. You would oppose the term 'Eagle' scout because it reflects on the national symbol. Maybe if you explored religion a bit more you would not be so bitter.

Semantics? The footnote clearly means that you cannot use the hike used for Hiking for any other MB. Turning the equation around does not change it, it is still being used for Backpacking as well. Is the goal the MB or is the goal the experience?

ScoutNut, The way I understood the problem in this case was that the Pack leadership did not even want to award the beltloops or acknowledge the program. The cost can be high, especially since many of the sports beltloops require nothing more than being on a team and explaining the rules to the parent or DL. I had one boy insist he had earned 12 beltloops. When I talked to him about them, one of the requirements was to have made a poster for and shared it with the den. He had clearly not done that part. I think the program is very good and I think the Pack should pay for the 1st loop, but I would also like to see the program use the DLs (or Pack designated person) to approve the explanation of the 'rules'. For some boys it can distract from the progress toward ranks as well. This same boy is only about 1/2 way through his Bear and here it is almost May.

Semper Fidelis. May he rest in peace.

Camp Iyataka, SD.

Why would you want drawstrings that reach to your knees? Do the right thing. Wear items appropriate to the task.

Deo Gracias.

I have seen State Badges mentioned in a number of other threads. Is there a list of which states have them? How about a simple roll-call thing here for whether or not your state has such a thing. To my knowledge, Wisconsin does not, but it is easier to 'prove' a positive than a negative. Thanks, T

I see where you are coming from, Bob. I don't think it automatically follows that Class A implies a Class B, etc. When I see the term, 'Class A', as applied to uniforms of any sort, I take that to mean the more formal version of the uniform. The Scout uniform has a number of optional items. To me, when the 'Class A' term is applied, it means to wear the best combination of options that you own. I would be more inclined to wear a tie or neckerchief for those occasions, than I would for a more casual setting that does not specify a uniform. I will admit that my choice of examples was not the best, but I am sure there are other informal abbreviations and such that are used in a matter of course that are not official BSA terms. I guess what I am saying is that it is not a big deal to use such terms and getting bogged down in such trivia detracts from the salient points you usually deliver.

Think of 'Class A' as short hand for the Field Uniform. I expect that you use BSA rather than Boy Scouts of America on occasion. The term 'Class A' is not inherently bad. Most of us understand it, even if we have not served in the military.

Lynda, Why would the DLs need to be BALOO trained in order to be registered leaders? As I understand it, BALOO is for Pack-level family camping. I say this as I am bypassing BALOO to get OWL instead. I may eventually get BALOO as well, but all of the information I was given (including from our District Training person) indicated that as long as the Pack as a BALOO trained person on campouts, that was the key. There is really no requirement that leaders be trained before being registered, but I would certainly expect (as COR, CC or CM) that the DLs go to training as soon as possible (including Outdoor Webelos Den Leader Training) after registration.

I have 2 girls and 2 boys, so it is important to me that they all get a good program. The oldest is a Bear, #2 is a Brownie. The Brownie Troop meets once a month, in school, over the lunch hour/recess. They have had maybe two or three weekend outings in addition. The group has earned about 3 or 4 Try-its as part of their program. We have had no celebratory meeting at the end of the year. (even their Daisy Bridging last year was at a regular meeting, not many parents could attend, even if they had been invited.) There does not appear to be any organization other than a Troop Leader mom and an assistant mom. On the plus side, they have 100% of the girls in the 1st grade as they only needed to buy a vest and there is really no additional time committment. We bought the Try-it book and Brownie handbook last summer so my daughter could work on the requirements. She has about 10-12 Try-its earned. She has attended a few Council events that we found out about online, not through the Troop. Is this the norm for how Brownie Troops operate? I like a few of the aspects of the Brownie program, but at this point, I really wish there was a Cub Scouting for Girls program. (not girls in existing Dens; their own units).