Torveaux

Good luck cubiemom. I got involved because last year (Wolf) was the first year for Cubs for my son and me. We had a total of 3 or 4 Den Meeting/outings and since I had no clue, we accepted it. Fortunately for him, we worked together to get his rank badge and arrow points. By the time we did Scouting for Food, my badgering of the CM about things led to his signing me up as a Committee Member. (paper title, no function at all). Next thing I know, I am the new Den Leader for Bears. It turns out that the CM was in the process of turning around a sinking ship and he could only do so much at once. We are making progress, and while I know I could find another Pack with an already established, well-run program, I guess I see it as God asking me to help the other boys as well as my son. We went from 5 boys last year (3 truly active) to 9 boys this year (7 active). One of our inactive boys is the son of the former Den Leader. His older brother (Web II) finished early and the younger boy lost interest (idolized his brother). I know your situation is likely different, but sometimes we are called to be agents of change. Maybe you could rally the 'good' parents from both of those Packs and form one good Pack?

My daughter is in her first year of Brownies. She did Daisies last year. I am just a GS Dad, but I am a Den Leader for the Bear Den in our Pack. (soon to be more as well) The GS Troop is almost entirely a during school lunch program. The only time they meet is a monthly meeting during lunch/recess time at school. They do have a few outings, but they are few and far between. My daughter has worked at home (between summer and during this year) and earned about 6 Try-Its. The Troop has only completed about 3 all year. She set a goal for herself on cookie sales (100 boxes) and sold nearly all of them door-to-door in her neighborhood. (I understand the need for fundraising at mom's work, but I don't see the value in the girls getting 'credit' for their mom selling cookies.) At the end she sold 116 boxes! I was pretty impressed by my 6 year-old's determination. I do have a question. In one of the Computer try-its there is a task that includes chatting with other Girl-Scouts online. There does not seem to be a good way to do that. Do you have any suggestions on what sites to go to in order for her to chat (safely) with girls her age? Is it OK to use a discussion board rather than live chat? Thanks.

According to the Cub Scout Leader Book (pg 20-7) "At the end of a school year, and once a boy moves to the next Cub Scouting level, he may not "go back" and earn Arrow Points from the earlier rank" As for 'when' someone moves on, it is also in the book. (pg 20-6) "When he completes third grade (or is 10), a Cub Scout may be recognized in a pack ceremony as he enters a Webelos den." "The Bear rank is for boys who have completed second grade (or are 9 years old). There should be no question as all of the grade requirements talk about having completed a grade, not necessarily started the next one. Exceptions are made for children with disabilities.

So where is the rest of the Committee? Is there at least a CC? I would expect that the CC would try to explain to the old CM that he needs to let go. If the guy took money, I would let the civil authorities know and they can investigate. (even though that could get messy) Change the meeting place/dates and communicate directly with your team. If you can get the locks changed, all the better.

I am curious about why all of the patches came off the blue shirt? The previous rank badges are not worn on the tan shirt, so there is not a place there for his tiger badge (as I understand it). I would also suggest that the boy learn to sew on his own patches so the goo becomes a non-starter.

Well, we have had bowling night for a Pack meeting and it was very well received. Of course, we had it on our regular Pack Meeting night. If the church thing is important to you (as I hope it is to most Scouters) then I would suggest finding out if your church or a church of the same denomination has an affiliated Pack. Our CO is the parish school, but we welcome any boys, especially those from our own parish who may attend public school. This makes those conflicts go away. While we would accept boys of any faith, there are a lot of benefits to having them all belong to the same faith community. All of the boys work on the same religious medals; there are other religious awards through the Church; invocations and services can easily be non-offensive. In our case, the principal is the COR. That way it stays consistent regardless of who has boys in the Pack at any given point in time. We are getting into a new era as our outgoing CM and Webelos II leader have no more boys, and our incoming CM has 5 boys including 4 year old twins. We have about 8 years of consistent, solid leadership upcoming. We also were fortunate enough to have a family move into town with a very active Eagle and two boys (8&4) so we can add more continuity and experience to our program. We are bound and determined to right the ship rather than to simply let it sink. Good Luck!

I thought things must be bad in Pitts, as well. I was going to recommend that you two look together. Good luck with the new Pack. Was the old Pack part of the kids' school or church? The reason I ask is that sometimes the bad blood can affect the kids they see every day. I would still like to see a way to solve the problems with the old Pack. I hate to see those other kids stuck in a bad program.

There are a lot of good ideas out there. I think in deference to tradition, the basic colors should not change much. The olive green in the older wool pants is a better color than the sick green of the 'official' pants of today, so I would use that one. I would keep Webelos in the blue uniform. There seems to be too big of a push to make little boys into young men too quickly. The neckerchief and badges make a clear difference between the ranks. The Boy Scout belt used by Webelos makes it impossible for them to wear their Academics and Sports Belt Loops. If you really wanted to make another change, add epaulets (sp) to the cub shirt and have the boys wear rank appropriate loops on them. It would also make the wearing of denner cords much easier. (Denner cords are easily the most popular item in our den) I would stick with one cub hat with a removable device to match the rank. (velcro or a pin) Head size does not change much and why add unnecessary expense? I think the Boy Scout uniform is fine outside of the aforementioned pants. Fix the pants and you fix most of the uniform issues. Boy Scout hats should be varied. As mentioned, climate and season are important for an outdoor organization. I think a quality stocking hat that can accomodate a rank or position emblem would be good for cold weather. For other times, it may be best to have a regional or council standard. Wide brimmed hats make sense in some climates, but are too cumbersome for some people. Berets go in and out of 'coolness', so let the boys decide. As long as the troop has the same hat, does it really matter? All in all the changes do not have to be drastic in order to really make the uniform much better. I would echo the thoughts on cost. Spend the money on important equipment/materials not an overpriced uniform.

Why? Too much to spend on a 'single' use item. If they really wanted to get people to buy the pants, I guess they would need to use them as a location for wearing badges and such. Our kids wear a school uniform with Navy pants. Guess what? They all wear those navy pants with their Cub uniforms and no one except a Cub Uniform Detective could tell the difference. (except that the pants tend to fit the kids better than the official pants) The pants do not make Scouting a better program. There is no reason not to have the pants be a more generic style and practical for everyday use. The problem is even worse with the green pants for Boy Scouts and leaders. Not only are the pants ugly, but they are impractical for the purposes intended, ill-fitting, and poor quality. I have no problem with having a uniform pant color or style, but make it something that is practical, affordable, and comfortable and you will get a great deal better participation.

cubiemom, You can come to our Blue and Gold. For some reason it is always held in May, not February. "That's how we've always done it." (until next year when the new order takes over! We are having a 75th theme, but I get frustrated with some of the same lackluster behaviors that are being passed along. Badges of rank are not awarded until the B&G, though the boys can be recognized in the meetings. There is also little interest, though some support, in earning non-required badges/awards. Fortunately, I have another son and by the time he gets to be a Tiger (he's 4) I will have fixed the major problems with our Pack. (I am not generally lacking in confidence.)

Sounds like a fund raising/dues issue to me. We have a $20 due payment each year that includes their Boy's Life subscription. All of the other money comes in from Popcorn sales. The Pack has a positive balance and we can buy any of those items that need buying. My personal gift to Scouting has been to pick up the awards that my Den earns myself. I can write off the expense on my taxes as a gift to the Cub Scouts and with only 8 or 9 boys it runs less than $20 per month (often much less). The 'optional' programs help keep many boys interested. I do feel your pain on some leadership being uninterested in the various other awards. I let people know what is out there and we cover what we can as a den, but ultimately, the Cubs and their parents need to want to participate and to fund it, whether that is through dues, fund-raising, or payments. I think having the parents pay for the boys awards as needed really sends the wrong message. 'If you work harder, it will cost more.'

Sounds familiar. It is usually not a matter of someone trying to hog all of the glory! LOL. Too few parents show a genuine interest in helping. I was new to Cub Scouting last year and our Pack is rather small, one den for each grade, 2-9 boys per den. The Charter Org is a small private school with one class per grade with 20-30 students in each class. The Cubmaster started out by casually mentioning that he needed Committee Members on the roster to re-charter and would I consent to letting him put my name down (after I filled out a form). Next thing I know, I am a Den Leader and I am soon to assume Assistant Cubmaster duties as well. Now that I am 'in' the circle I fully understand that it is simply a matter of trying to get people who are willing to devote some time and who have the program and other kids besides their own at heart. If your Cubmaster is unwilling to add help, talk to the Charter Org rep. If that gets nowhere, I would look to change Packs or start a new one.

It seems to me that setting hard and fast rules is a recipe for disaster and also stinks of a lack of responsibility by the leadership. If you manage people, you need to have vague guidelines rather than a strict set of rules. Otherwise you end up punishing great employees (scouts) for non-offensive offenses, while rewarding slugs (no offense intended) for simply meeting a 'quota' of participation. Effort, enthusiasm, and the like are intangibles and cannot be measured by a 50%-50% rule or some such nonesense. I think the best measure would be done by peers. The boys are supposed to be learning to lead, let them meet a peer review board that can decide if there is question about whether a boy is active or not.

The big reason for that is simple: Those approved religious programs usually have the same requirements for other organizations. I have 2 boys and 2 girls. I have noticed that while the paperwork is different, the requirements are the same. On a side note: If the UU does not agree with Scouting's principles, why would they want to participate? If the boy is firm in his beliefs as a UU member, I would think another organization would be more to his liking. As for wearing an unauthorized device, I would have to ask which Scouting value does that represent? Honesty? Respect?

OmegaEagle, et al, Since one of the requirements for AOL is being an active member of one's Den for 6 months following the end of 4th grade, it would stand to reason that for the vast majority of schools, the earliest one could crossover is November/December (May-June +6 months). I would heartily echo some of the sentiments of others about slowing down a bit. If the Cub Scout activites are too easy for your boy, perhaps you and he are not taking full advantage. Since the requirements are signed off by the parents, perhaps you could challenge your obviously gifted son to go the extra mile on each accomplishment. There are also some real concerns about how well an early crossover will be truly accepted by the Troop, especially if he is young. (I know everyone will claim that their boys would never disrespect a Troopmate, but the reality is that most boys will given a situation that rubs them wrong.) There are also a host of additional badges/awards that can be earned as a Cub Scout. The Academics and Sports program could take quite awhile to complete. LOL. As the member of a Pack Community, I think it is a shame that you are only interested in advancing your boy out of Cub Scouts without regard to the other boys in his Pack. When the Webelos advance early, it takes valuable leadership from the Pack as well. I am not seeing how that is in keeping with the Leadership and Citizenship we are trying to instill in our boys. The Merit Badge booklets are available for sale, if he is so bored with Cubbing, maybe he could do some extra work and share his experiences with his den. My son is young for his class as he was skipped past 1st grade. Given his academic gifts, many aspects of Scouting have come easy for him. I see no reason at this point to expect that he will not have most of the AOL requirements done by the time he finishes 4th grade. (He would only be 9) Even if he were older, I think it would be wrong to push him ahead. I guess what I am saying is that I understand your situation as I will be facing it next year. If you are looking for some of the camping opportunities, get trained and take your Pack on some overnighters.

It can be a difficult decision to modify your child's educational path. A few years ago we were faced with the opposite problem. Our oldest boy's birthday is after the school cutoff, but he is exceptionally bright and was skipped over 1st grade. We could have said no, and kept him in his earlier grade. This would have been bad for his academic development (and likely that of his classmates as well). As I did not have a Cub Scouting background, I was not aware at the time that it went by grade and not age. At the first meeting, the Pack simply explained that he would be a Wolf. On the negative side, by no fault of his own, my son could never get his Tiger badge or experience those things. It made so much more sense to keep him with the classmates that he would have for the next 5+ years than to do otherwise. Someone that this lady respects (if there is such a person)needs to explain to her how out of sync things would be. My son is now a Bear (I am the Den Leader) and so many of the Achievements coincide nicely with the school curriculum. If she really wants the Scouting experience for her son, why would she want to put him at a disadvantage to do so?

Having no son in the group can be a big advantage. I think the only reason most leaders have sons is that they are more likely to take the time to lead. I have seen similar situations with coaching. The best coaches were those who did not have sons in the league. They did not have issues with bias, perceived or real. Good luck.

Some of you mentioned the 'complete' uniform. What does everyone consider complete? I am a new Bear Den Leader and our Pack is rebuilding. Many of the boys have just a shirt, and perhaps a cap. The badges are often missing or incorrectly placed. We are trying to repair the damage done by earlier regimes. I am of the opinion that the boys should wear what they have well, rather than expecting them to have pants, socks, caps, shirts, vests, etc.

Since Tigers need their adult partner, I would suggest having the boys 'design' their pumpkin and have their partner do the carving. This gives the boys a chance to see how its done and to see their ideas come to 'life'. My understanding is that 'cubs' can use knives after they earn the Whittling Chip. (Bears)

Is there a rule that says you must finish one badge before another? I guess I would try to mix some of the 'sit-down' requirements with some of the more active ones. Fitness seems to blend nicely with Athlete and Sportsman. Perhaps they could do parts of each at the meetings.

Not just the Tiger book, the Cub Scout Leader book has the same prohibition listed on page 18-6. (2001 edition)

Small world. Like Queenj, I am a fulltime parent, but part-time student (most likely at the same University that Kraut 60 works at). I hold an AAS in History and (after this semester) am 2 courses short of my BS in Political Science. I am going to teach HS Social Studies when I get done. I also coach a HS boys Rugby team. I have done everything from washing dishes to designing video games in the 20+ years since I graduated HS.

I am still rather new at this. I became Den Leader because my son's Den had 3, yes three, den meetings last year (Wolf). The DL was well-meaning, but simply did not have the time to devote to scouting. My son was, for all intents and purposes, a lone scout with a Pack. My goal for this year was to have one after-school den meeting and one meeting/outing. (in addition to any Pack functions) Had I pushed for more than that, we would have lost boys/families. As it is I was able to get two boys recruited (+1 transfer from out of state). Had I tried to push for the recommended weekly meetings, we would have had only 2 scouts left in the Den, rather than the 8 we now have. When I was a kid, there were no sports for elementary school kids during the school year. Now these kids have so many after-school and weekend functions that they barely have time for twice a month. It seems to me that some people get it in their heads that the way they did it is the only right way to do it. Sometimes you need to adapt your themes or procedures to the group that you have. Another problem I noticed was with the Webelos I (now II) Leader. He had the opposite problem vis-a-vis Boy Scouts. As an Eagle, he seemed too pre-occupied with getting the boys to Boy Scout events. They had little time to enjoy being Cub Scouts because he pushed them all so hard to finish their Webelos badge ASAP. The younger boys in the Pack need to see the leadership of the Webelos in being Cubs, not in just being unofficial Boy Scouts. There is a happy medium in there somewhere, I just hope I can find it next year....

Here is another source for information on the awards. http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/cubscout/specialops.html

Well, we have a small pool to draw from. Our charter org. is a church with an attached school. One class per grade, up to 30 kids per class. If the classes are evenly divided boys/girls, each class would only have a potential of 15 cubs. We are thin on new Tigers as the 1st grade class has only 8 or 9 boys. We have interest from 3 or 4 families, but none have prior scout knowledge and are a bit gun-shy about being the leader. We have been doing well in other areas. Our Bear Den had only 5 boys last year and has added 3 new ones. (1 out-of-state-transfer and 2 recruits) That amounts to about 1/2 of the boys in that class. The Wolves kept their entire group together from Tigers with no changes. (9 boys) Webelos 1 & 2 both held firm with their classes (2 and 6 respectively). The 4th and 1st grade classes are exceptionally small, so the low numbers are at least partially due to that. It seems that if you do not get the boys by 3rd grade, they are not likely to join at Webelos stage.