TnTScoutMomma

Lisabob said, There are times when you have to take a step back from the question of "should they do this?" and instead, ask the question "how should we respond to this?" --- Those two questions are very closely relatedJ For me the should they answer was what I needed to know so I could determine how to respond. We have no plans to make a big stink, appeal or blow it out of proportion (never did). As far as our son is concerned its over and done. However, as a leader in this troop I do need to consider our process. Which is why I came here to this forum, to see if I was off-base in my thinking. I dont just disagree with the decision as a mother, but as a leader in the organization. The situation has just made us think about things weve not considered before. And regardless of whether it was my boy or not I believe if the point of the book is to prove what hes done and he can accomplish that without it then why make a big deal of it. NeiLup you sure have quite an imagination; I cant picture any of those scenarios ever happening But I sure hope you are correct in this statement, I'll bet this. It will be a LONG time before your son forgets something important. But, he is human after all, and a teenage boy to boot so Im not holding my breath. Crew21_Adv, You said, Yes. Both Scouts and adults should have a baseline of what is expected. What could result in a "Go vs. No Go" decision. I think this summarizes what Im looking for .. what are reasonable expectations and what SHOULD result in a go or no go decision? It would be helpful if the BSA guidelines werent so ambiguous!

Thanks again for the continued replies! It's interesting to see the varying opinions and I realize now that, as someone mentioned, being on the same page is really the key. This is the first time any of our scouts were failed or not passed or not advanced (I'm so confused about the proper terminology there). We've never dealt with the "what now?" question. Since it's my son I can't make suggestions, but am glad to hear how others would have handled so we'll know next time. This is the first time it's happened, but it most likely won't be the last. We typically hold BORs every other month and it has worked out perfectly, but as I said, we are a young troop and the patrols are pretty much about the same place. My guess is that everyone will assume that he'll wait until the next BOR (November)-- that is his assumption and mine as well. Unless someone else brings it up that's how we'll leave it. (The joys of leadership!) Because we are leaders I am looking to the future and want to ensure a fair and consistent standard is set and a plan is in place when things don't go as we or the scout anticipates. To answer the questions about the tenderfoot scout. Yes, he was sitting for the rank of Tenderfoot and it was the same board on the same evening. I was proud of my boy. He knew the other boy did not have his book either. He said at first he thought it wasn't fair, but when he thought about it (on his own) he came to the conclusion that the other boy was younger, it was his first time and he felt that going for Star rank should be held more accountable for things like remembering a book. Thanks again!

On the question about the plan of action and letter, and being told about the appeals process -- NO to all of those. However, I'm not sure they are really aware that should be done (though our unit commissioner was there present) -- see, it's obvious we need more training!! I'm just glad it was our boy -- we can work through this, there are a boy or two whose mothers would be very vocal and very upset!

Thank you for all of the replies so far. It has certainly given us a lot to think about. And it really helps to see it from other perspectives. Though it is a bit confusing too when some say they would not advance him without his book and others say he shouldn't be pass/fail. Some say the book is there to prove he's met the requirements, but then some say requiring the book is adding to the requirements. Some say the BOR shouldn't be pass or fail, but I'm not sure how that "looks" practically speaking if the boy has met or NOT met the requirements. We do have a lot of learning to do! Oh my! This is sure more involved than cub scouts!! We are a relatively new troop and are finding that the more we know, the more we need to know and as we grow in number and the boys progress in rank it is bringing to light things we didn't even know should be considered. Our troop is much like a family so I know the intent was not to frustrate or upset. It's just another time that's made us think about the boys coming after him. I did want to clear up one misconception though. He was not terrified to get out of the car - he simply was embarrassed that he forgot the book and he was more worried about how that would be perceived by his peers than the adults present. He was trying to avoid what he thought would be teasing from them. The boys that were there and award of what was going on were very supportive though! Thank you for the links to training. And I like Bob White's suggested wording for discussing this & will probably start with something like that. I don't want to "fix" it for my son, that's done & we would do more damage for him if we intervened -- as someone pointed out, it is HIS challenge. And he has no idea how this has weighed on my mind. I didn't want to approach the subject with the committee without having a fresh perspective from others not "emotionally" invested. And when it is brought up it won't be in relation to my son. Fortunately we are a close unit and I know the adults involved will be more than willing to invest in the training and look at how we do things - I just needed to make sure we (my husband and I) were not completely crazy in our thinking. My boy is resilient and has already moved on, gearing up to give a speech for SPL elections! Thanks to you all and if there are other opinions I'd love to hear the feedback. I'm off now to check out the training links.

I need some unbiased opinions on this please. Sorry it is so long My son recently sat for his BOR for his Star rank. On the way to the review he realized that he did not have his scout handbook. The scoutmaster (his dad) had previously told all of the boys that they should come to the meeting with their book and in uniform. So, our son was quite upset that hed forgotten his. He did have his own personal notebook where he keeps all of his records. So, they get to the meeting and our son doesnt want to get out of the car; hes so upset. His dad tells him that he cant just not show because he forgot his book. That he needs to either tell the board he doesnt want to sit or go in, go through the process and leave the decision up to the board. Finally, our son gets out of the car. He sees the AC outside and tells her that hes not sure hes going to sit because he forgot his book. She tells him, yes Im not sure youll pass without your book. Some of the others boys went on with their time, our boy had his scoutmaster conference and decided that he would go ahead with everything since he had his notebook with him. His dad did a lot of coaching along the way (both as dad and scoutmaster). **Edited ... by coaching I mean he worked with him about being so upset) So, he sits down, the board tells him, we may not be able to pass you because you dont have your book, but we'll have to discuss it. At this point, he has hope. In his words, I kept thinkin well, maybe if I do a really good job I can still make it. He tells them he failed to bring his book, should have, recognizes that he messed up. However he tells them he has his scout notebook where he has all of his MB blue cards, has papers signed by the agency he did his community svc with -- basically, though he doesn't have his book he can "show" that he'd met all of the requirements and that he was prepared. He shows everything to them - and then they proceed with the question portion. They then excuse him from the room. When they call him back he's told that it was a hard decision because he'd done everything else very well, but they can't pass him through because he didn't bring his book. They also told him that would not set a good example for the other boys. Of course, the kid is devastated. Hes really beating himself up and is doubly upset because he really had done everything, served in a leadership role, etc., etc. We totally disagree with the decision and if it were a scout other than our son my husband would have said something about it. In our positions (Im CC and CR) we feel our hands our tied with our son. Fortunately, my son has plenty of time to wait until the next board of review and although upset hes not dwelling on it. So, initially we thought, okay, fine, if that is the standard then it should be applied to everyone. Another boy attended without his book, (tenderfoot) and he was passed through. But after carefully considering this we just strongly feel that the entire way this was handled AND failing him (which is how our son feels) for simply forgetting his book is not the way a BOR should be conducted. Which brings me to the real questions, in your opinion was this mishandled? Are we spot on in our thinking? If we are correct in our thinking, we recognize that also means weve failed the unit by failing to see that there were very clear guidelines in place and everyone had the same training prior to conducting a BOR. And know what we need to do now. If were off base and he should have been failed for lack of another word, then well know that needs to be communicated clearly to everyone concerned. EDITED *** Also, if this is NOTs just cause then what are typical reason a boy wouldnt be advanced? Thank you for your time! (This message has been edited by tntscoutmomma)