Tampa Turtle

I would elevate. I think it is bad for one unit to disparage another as it just spreads a bad opinion of BSA in general. Folks split all the time for all sorts of reasons; most have the good sense to not trash each other in public.

I have purchased some very nice backpacks from Military Surplus online but they were ex-Swiss, Swedish, and US gear. But yeah you gotta research and do a lot of tinkering. If yo don't want to tinker you shouldn't do it. A try on in a good store is pretty important for most commercial backpacks. It is such a personal thing...what is easy to adjust, feels right, too hot, too awkward. I did get an Outdoor Products knock-off the old Coleman Ramflex from Walmart. I really the frame and harness and have about 80 miles on it. But I hate the bag...it just doesn't work for me. But I am pleased with it overall and am happy it price-wise as Mrs Turtle was unhappy with "all those scouting dollars". Older son #1 loves his old Austrian Army Rucksack and webgear. Son #2 likes to do the Ultra-light things. So it is a personal thing. I have found some good deals in the Scout Shop. I like the green Thorlo socks and stock up on sales. They are cushioned and cool--good for Diabetic feet. I have other more expensive hiking socks but keep going back to my Scout socks.

Mountaineer is correct. Trailers (as well as Minivans and Trucks) encourage you to take more than you need. Also the "Be Prepared" equipment lists that in our Troop just seems to grow and grow.

"I bring you 15 --*crash*--no, 10 commandments!"

We average 14 months but a bunch of guys have done in 10 with a 10 campouts and Summer Camp.

Papa, I was down to 180 and couldn't stay there to save my life. It gets harder and harder each "yo-yo". But if it wasn't for scouts I wouldn't be walking as much for work. Now I think a mile or two is no big deal, folks think I'm nuts. But then I think "well its not 10 in a Swamp with a Pack". I really don't eat many calories anymore, maybe 1000-1400 calories a day. I will gain weight on camp food. (But I ate enough for 3 lifetimes before that) But I have had this battle since I was a Cub Scout. Now Dutch Ovens are my nemesis.

I liked one Troop had a very small trailer, about the size of a jetski one that they lashed stuff too. And it had 4 patrol boxes and 4 dining flys.

When I was a Tiger Leader I was 270, thanks to those stupid limits I am down to 190. Still too high but can hobble along and bring up the rear. Am working on it thanks to Scouts.

The boys picked them but now we have permanent patrols and patrol names. They do modify them--The Blue Sharks have been the Screaming Sharks and are now the Mellow Nursing Sharks. They have a base color for the equipment marking and flag thought that gets modified too. The Shark Patrol flag now has a baby bottle.

But what about old stale cake? It is going to be thrown out anyway. What about a Gay Scoutmaster with 10 mentor pins, 4 trailers, and a sheath knife?

The lesson: That the adult was a good sport. But really no lesson required: sometimes, like dressing up for a silly skit--we do things just for fun.

I understand your position but this seems a bit silly. I know Girl Scout leaders will do this--Girl Scouts! We don't mind boys getting all dirty but worry about a little pie? If you don't want to do it, fine, but it seems a real stretch to say it say it is encouraging hazing.

We started out hiking and then moving into "slack packing" --maybe 50% of the gear. Much better to get used to carrying the pack and starting to tweak things for size and comfort.

We have two trailers. We could get by with one. We have had camp-outs with 50 folks and 3 trailers. Way to heavy. But then we have 6 patrols with patrol boxes, food coolers, etc. Each boy may have a backpack or tub. The backpacking trips are much, much better. In our case I have tried to dump the patrol boxes but some adults pushed for making a whole new set and equipping them. Everything else is a cubic foot calculation.

I think this falls into the realm of similar inducements--meet the goal and the SM shaves off his hair, beard, pie in the face, throw water balloons at him for a $1, etc. I think it can be good old fastened fun and if received in good sportsmanship a good "the old man is OK" kind of thing. Younger guys really eat this stuff up. Is it wasteful? I don't know; my wife usually has a few boxes of really old cake mix--I would use those. Maybe get a day-old cake from the bakery--it is for smushing not eating.

What is a Backpacking Dining Fly?

Maybe if they ever go to battle armor ala Starship Troopers they can put real can-openers on the end of rifles.

I don't know how this forum, in all it's religious diversity can agree on a concept of sin. Though it is fun to observe. I do know, personally, the deeper I get in my faith and the more I apply it in the real world the messier it seems to get. Of course if we were to eliminate sinners from being BSA leaders it would be slim pickings indeed. I get mighty covetous over some others camping gear. And must confess to the occasional impure thought watching Scarlett Johansson in that Avengers trailer. (must be those rubber britches) But that makes me a Hetero Sinner so I guess that is OK.

I have observed a number of SM's, all pretty good. As an ASM I suggest: (1) Get the training. I have seen it has reduced the anxiety. (2) Ask the ASM's what you want them to do. (3) Focus on the boys, focus on the boys. (4) Feel free to play with the boys. I have been very impressed on how patient and understanding our SM's have been with the boys. We ASM's tend to get the 'bad cop" role to preserve the reputation of "the old man".

Make sure someone takes pictures and gives you some. You will be too busy but it is nice to have some mementos when some of them become Boy Scouts someday.

(This is not a total tangent) I was reading about how the Navy and Airforce are largely technical services and approach combat with a layered, procedural sense. The Army and Marines see combat as chaotic and tend to be more flexible in how they may approach certain problems (say ground targeting). They have different cultures partially out of tradition and out of whatthey do everyday. National is like the Navy/Air Force in respect they see Scouting in this measured sense with procedures and guidelines. Troop-level Scouters are "boots on the ground" dealing with the front line of chaotic boys and parents. The difference is a substantial cultural tension. What is Council? Maybe the regional pool of support services for us ground troops with camps, training, etc. Though they get pretty Mickey Mouse and expect us to serve them at times. I am not sure where District fits in? Are the the forward observers working with the Troops and calling in the air strikes and artillery as needed? And with that I have exhausted my military metaphor for the day.

Actually I tease him with the pay-bump talk and he gets a really nervous look...

Sadly one of the factors in this discussion is the fear that the public still associates Pedophile scout leaders with the gay issue. Grown men with boys and all that. So I imagine that is a part of the institutional "drag" on the issue.

"Kybo"...had to look that one up. Great entry in wickipedia under "Outhouse". Learn something everyday.

Welcome fellow ASM! Did you hear we get a 3% pay bump on July 1st? That's what my SM told me.