Tampa Turtle

To get back to the question in the header... We have a contact number and a GPS coordinate in the tear off portion of the permission slip. If we had a radical changes of plan we would send out an email. Before the trip we would discuss to the parents any "alternate" activities. We try to have a couple in pocket just in case. I do not think we would do something that was a major shift in activity (aquatic vs rock climibing vs caving) as parents have different levels of comfort. We would not do any of this if we had to shift an activity that was less dangerous or just go hiking if we had to cancel something.

Lost in Space! When I was 10 I used to have the worst crush on the younger daughter Penny. I think it was the straight hair. Sorry I saw the bunny and got distracted. I find the range of opinions here (on ANY issue, it seems) personally valuable to me as a Scouter. I bring back to my Troop the arguments presented here both pro and con as needed. I think it helps move forward the decision making process with our boys. So I, in general, like leaving the threads and just avoiding the ones that I feel insulted by. You don't have to help your self to the whole pie.

We are having a big father-son campout this weekend. I will see if this comes up. Folks from the outside are not always going to bring it up to you if they know you are in scouting. Instead they will steer their kids to other groups and activities.

Welcome Duckfoot--where ya from?

This issue keeps whipping back to hurt us because the higher you are (in the public opinion BSA, Catholic Church, Penn State)the harder you fall when it gets out. Fall hard enough you break. Arguments that "this sort of thing happens all the time everywhere" may be true but does not matter. If we espouse the scout oath and law, and get many intangible benefits from our past virtuous history we should expect the bricks that come from our ugly history as well. People expected and still expects better from us. To do less "cheapens the brand" as National seems concerned about. Personally I find the poor response from National troubling. I left the Catholic Church because of the CYA response to historic abuse patterns. To me this is a more fundamental problem than Gays, Girls, and God. This is like a finding the foundation of your whole might house built on a foundation of sand. Hyperbole? What do I know I am just an ASM...

I think BSA needs to come clean, turn over what they got, and take the hit. We gotta move on from this one.

See I can do the occasional non-snarky thread!

I was once unhappy with how my boys, hard workers both, were being treated by the Troop. I had a tiff with the SM and considered pulling out. Instead I had a sit down with my sons, explained my concerns and said it was up to them, that I would support them if they stayed or wanted to leave, and I wanted them to have an enjoyable scout career. They conceded the problems but elected to stick around and see how things work out. They were much more mature than I.

I had one boy, a nice lad, who explained he came from a long line of non-campers. He struggled through Webeloes as we did more outdoor activities but really blossomed in the last 6 months. His father was jewish and proud of saying "jews don't camp". (While I was brought up Catholic I was grew up in a predominantly jewish neigborhood; we used to joke around alot. My reply usually was "what do you call the 40 years in the desert?") He had a stay one summer with his gentile grandfather, a burly Indiana farmer, and got fired up to do manly outdoor things. (Got his Grandpa's 1940's scout knife) Anyhow, I worked with the boy a lot and the weekend came for his first overnight Webelos campout as a Webelo. Struggled with the giant 3 person giant tent. Got bugs in his sleeping bag. Foil dinner got ashes in it. Fell down and cut his leg. Dad came and complaining the whole time. Etc, etc. In the morning I am up early starting the coffee. I see his tent unzip, out pop's his head, and he pipe's up with "See Mr Turtle, Jews CAN camp!" I can still see that big smile on his face. Like money in the bank. (He crossed over to our Troop and is doing well. He has to work harder than the other scouts on some of the physical stuff but is always doggedly cheerful. And his Dad is coming around)

In a Pack of 120 4 families who dropped out stated this as a reason. In a Troop of 80, 1 family. Far more families are dropping out due to time conflicts with soccer, band practice, rowing, and lacrosse (in that order).

I watched it too. I liked it--I wish we were co-ed (maybe). Looked like fun.

It is fun with Tigers when they scream out at the grocery store "He's my scout leader!". Now I occasionally get alumni come up to me and say "hi". Mom tells me how he always talks abiut me. Which is nice. Closest I ever got to being a rock star. Boy Scouting seems more like the occasional connection. Sometimes it is a boy troubled over a girl or faith issue that they are hesitant to talk to their folks about. Sometimes the issues are so innocent that they are endearing. I recall that they are still boys. Other times they are pretty serious and you realize that some guys are being shoved early into adulthood. That is sobering. I have told the story here before of an older boy who thanked me for volunteering as he knew without Dads volunteering their would be no campouts. Apparently the campouts were his only refuge from a bad family life and the monthly outings had helped him keep his sanity. He also said scouting showed him how Dad's and Son's should act like--he had no idea.

Could paint the name of every place you camp "Mount Snoopy 2012" or whatever. That could get fun after a while. I think anything that you can do have the boys personalize it is a good thing.

Could paint the name of every place you camp "Mount Snoopy 2012" or whatever. That could get fun after a while. I think anything that you can do have the boys personalize it is a good thing.

The other night I over heard a compliment from a Scout. He was giving advice to a another scout who was confused about some procedure. He flicked a finger at me and said: "You can ask that one. For an adult he is very talk-to-able." Now sometimes I am known as a grumpy PIA Scouter but it is nice to hear the positive. Currency of the Realm. This happens every once in a while and it can keep me going for a while. I know I tend to focus on program problems but things like that snap me back to the big picture. Any of you have had those experiences?

Agree with Scout Nut. Yes I think it determines what is "urban". I think those labels don't work too neatly anymore. In Tampa some "urban" areas (multi-family, no parking, close to downtown, etc) are pretty well off. Some older 1950-1960's "middle ring" suburbs are in fact pretty poor and then you go further out in the boonies there is a mix of former poor rural towns and wealthy gated communities. I live in a well to do "urban" neighborhood. Any of our Elementary schools nearby could raise 40K in a weekend fund raiser if they really needed to. That creates problems as well as some folks will build a pretty expensive scouting program if you let them. In the poorer african american neighborhoods they are frequently single parent or grandparent. Hard to get them to participate. The hispanic neighborhoods seem to have pretty intact extensive families. I think our Troop has a 1/4-1/3 single parent households, usually Mom. They want more male role models and good influences of scouting. They drop out more often, usually as to time commitment issues.

I would get a pancake compressor and a paint gun not spray cans. Also have the boys do the prep and priming and an adult (or best boy)do the final coat. Agree about the name and decal. Once it looks good enough to steal make sure you get a ball hitch lock. Learned that lesson. (I am not sure why it has to be silver vs. a mural or something artistic if someone is so inclined. Why not let each boy sign it when they make first class or something?)

Painting Merit Badge anyone?

"I'll add: Knot Tying Light a Fire " Calico--how did I miss that!

Mom's are really better at volunteering for cubs but already area sacrificing elsewhere. I have at Pack meetings may speeches about: -Telling Dad's that time is flying buy and the time to make memories is now. -That we will back them up, provide support, and teach camping skill if needed. -The need for male role-models as well. -That it makes you a bit of a hero in your boy's eye. -To man up and just do it. -That is really a lot of fun.

Agree that an active program can move teh boys along and that you should raise expectations. Especially those first two years when the boys can be very enthusiastic. We had a award --the Golden Spoon-- given to the Patrol with the best tasting and ambitious campout menu. Some Patrols really had to step up their game and we started seeing a lot more varied cooking techniques and multi-part meals. Naturally we had samples to judge. Boys did steak over flames, chicken parm, terriyaki, salads, omelets, etc. Was a lot of fun to watch. All for plastic spoon on a wood block spray painted gold.

Really depends on the parents and the meeting logistics. Some parents stay because they will be back soon anyway. Others leave because they live nearby. I had one Den with GREAT parents; they all did something (lead a game, teach a class, hand out snacks, plan a trip)and sat away from the boys most of the time. I was happy to have them. I had another that they were a great distraction, offered nothing but criticism and interference. I wished they would dump and go. There is no set answer but agree that the first few meetings they should hang around.

I have seen it and it can be done. I wouldn't recommend it but I wouldn't put artificial barriers in front either. I too saw some of my old Webes on their first as-Boy Scouts campout when they crossed over to my Troop. They worked together, first up, cooked a real complicated breakfast and cleaned up first. They were on fire. Great Patrol spirit. It was an honor to see it. Most of the those boys fast tracked a bit. I would not short cut the Grubmaster and Cooking requirements--it is an important skill. That is what slows some of the guys down--there are just only so many opportunities a year.

Yeah I'd just congratulate the man and keep reservations to myself. Seems the more I learn about scouting the less I know. Sometimes seeing other units you pick up a few good ideas; other times you see things you didn't and confirms the direction you are going in.

We rotated and also practiced. So the boys did 2-3 a meeting. Also folding, the whole deal. Some boys are not ready to be callers and some are better than others. Some needed extra help (I held up a sign for one lad in case he needed it). All eventually got to do all the parts. One day my boys (Bear and Webe at the time) and I were walking, in uniform, from a field trip through a city park where the Mayor was making a dedication. The color guard from a local Troop failed to show and we were pressed into service. We did and went great. It seems to me that there are a few things that the general public expects scouts of all ages to know (even unreasonably): First Aid and Flags.