Tampa Turtle

Amen.

RS, Jeff I agree. Sometimes the hesitation to do the "right thing" in these circumstances stops one from doing anything. Better to make the effort.

I understand the desire to have protection from wild animals and I think there should be some sort of exception for that. I do have concerns, G2SS aside, about having firearms around idiot boys who, on occasion, lack control around fire much less bullets.

If one is hung up on the money (and yeah I get suspicious of National)just sit down tonight and hand write a letter to the folks!

RS If your dissatisfaction motivates you to reach out and help all of them or lobby BSA to do so great! But do not let a less than perfect effort detract from doing something for someone. How is this any different than when a long-term scouter dies and we want to give him special recognition. Do we not do so because other old men died that week and we are not recognizing them? When Baden Powell died and Juliet Lowe died scouts turned out for their funerals and memorials. I think it is OK to "take care of our own" as long as it doesn't stop there. The important thing is to take care of SOMEONE.

Common guys. There are "normal" boys in our Troop who have gone on to commit crimes and special needs boys who take more work but can be great scouts and you can make a real impact in a life. It is heavy lifting and not for everyone. It is a case by case thing. Each boy is an individual. This is a well traveled thread and I think a consensus is no one has to tolerate a violent boy and that if a boy is high maintenance a parent needs to step in and support the unit to take up the slack. BSA should not create special needs units but needs to step up with better support and tools for difficult scouts, period. But then my experience is (in Florida)the schools and churches do almost nothing. I have a special needs scout and basically we are on our own.

This discussion has been going round and round for thousands of years. Not long after 9-11 my then 5 year old asked me "If God is all powerful why does he let the bad men hurt people?". And my goodnight kiss turned into a discussion of pre-destination vs. free will with a 3 year old. I told him our family believes in the free-will side. His reply (I paraphrase): "If we can decide to be good or bad then I will decide to be good. But if I hate God I might as well be as bad as I can be before I die. If I was God I don't know if I would trust people" Having a child explain that God'd free will means we have to swallow the bitter pill of evil was not what I expected that night. But he was (Can't say he still is now!) pretty wise as a young'un. God also allows cancers, disasters, and physics is this world as well. I have read Rabbi Kushner's argument (the Why Do Bad Things happen to Good People book) guy say he thinks God is all knowing, all loving, but not all powerful. That he suffers along with us. I don't know...the older I get the less I know. I do know that God wants us to be his hands in this broken world to help others, spread love and comfort, and promote justice.

Lets see... (from Gov websites for guess-estimation) I looked up there (round number) are about 100,000 public schools in the U.S. Majority Elementary. Average salary for law enforcement is $50,000 + Benefits say $20,000. Lets just round it to $75k per officer. Figure 1.5 officers per school (because folks get sick, and some schools are bigger and need more than 1) = 100,000 * 70,000 * 1.5 = $10,500,000,000. 10.5 billion. If you want a (minimal)guard presence.

I saw on the Yankee Council website: -------------- It is with great sadness and a very heavy heart that we share that two of the children lost were new Tiger Cubs in Cub Scout Pack 170: Chase Kowalski and Benjamin Wheeler. Three other families in the Pack lost children at the school, and Tiger Cub Den Leader Peter Baressi was a First Responder hero who stayed with the families throughout this ordeal. Victoria Soto, one of the hero teachers, was an Explorer as a youth in Stratford EMS Post 4911. Chase and Benjamin, two would-be Eagle Scouts, and all those lost Friday will forever be in our hearts and prayers. Scouting families across our Council, across the country and even around the world are asking the same question everyone is: What can we do? As a Scouting community, we come together especially in support of the Kowalski and Wheeler families. The Pack 170 leadership has asked that we set up a Memorial Fund to support the five families and donations can be made out to "Pack 170 Memorial Fund" c/o Connecticut Yankee Council, PO Box 32, Milford, CT 06461. We are working with Newtown Savings Bank to establish this fund. In an effort to assist the families, we will collect cards and letters which can also be addressed to "Pack 170" c/o the Connecticut Yankee Council, PO Box 32, Milford, CT 06461. --------------- May I suggest those so moved to do something can at least reach out here. It is not much but something.

Ah heck in Florida folks kill pedestrians and bicyclists all the time by sheer carelessness and I wonder if they even get points on their license. I am the main pedestrian and bicycle planner in my local government so the issue (which is complicated with lots of folks to blame)is frustrating and at times hopeless. My wife reminds me that some things can change if enough everyday people push to make it happen. Not always but sometime. At 50, I have seen some pretty big social changes that looked unlikely as a child: Smoking bans, gay rights, inter-racial marriage. Drunk driving is tougher now. So, on occasion, change-for better or worst--does occur.

Packsaddle, I did lose a child once (as an infant) but I think it is not quite the same thing as it was natural causes. Was a loss of what was not to be. I have had my share of personal tragedies--I can imagine the sense of loss but not under the circumstance of murder like that. And yes I hope I never, never have to. I agree with you that these families will have to walk through hell and some of them may never make it out. I do think, obviously, that so many of the survivor children, staff, and parents will be scarred. I fully expect folks to be mad as hell at God; I know I have been. But it is human nature to "go back to normal". Many of us seen that when someone close to us dies and the world keeps turning. I agree with Beavah about the double edged sword of free will. And I think that some folks do evil calmly and deliberately without mental illness as a factor.

A very sad time. I had to stop watching. My wife missed the news all day Friday and could barely choke out what happened. First graders...that is Tiger Cub age. Had to explain what happened to my 13 and 14 year old boys just to get ahead of it a bit before their friends started whipping things up...they seemed pretty blaise...which made me feel very sad as a parent. I don't want them to freak out but not so accepting of how screwed up the world is. Kind of a parental lose-lose. Turned out later my older boy was disturbed by the sound of firecrackers Saturday and bolted fast for home while walking the dog. He thought a shooter was walking down the neighborhood. Later he told me that he always thinks what he would do if a shooter entered his school--every class every day he goes over it in his head. I think God wants us to somehow move the ball on this. I don't know how--yet. The U.S. is an outlier in mass killings--we sure have a lot of them. Yes people have free will and determined folks will always find a way BUT we can make things harder. Since they are almost always male it makes me remember why our job as Scouters are important. Maybe we can push a boy just enough in the right direction... As for the agony of those directly affected--I can only imagine. I saw what my folks went through when my brother died--it looked like hell to me. Sorry for the ramble--I am not as articulate as Eamonn and Beavah.

I scout some of the military surplus sites and have got some good ideas there. Boys tend to get a lot of stuff at first and pare down to the good (and costlier) basics as they progress and physically grow. Hard to go wrong with a knife or multi-tool. Compass is good. If it is a big gift maybe one of the "big 3" - sleeping bag, backpack, or tent. I got my boy some military type poly long johns one year and that was pretty popular as was an old UK style camo jacket. They always seem to go on the trips as well as an (expensive)Hennesy Hammock. Stuff sacks and animal cards are great ideas. They may need to get them anyway. I would go for a simpler and better quality knife. Note if your boys is a lefty--mine is and he has a hard time with a think swiss type knife. A knife with something that makes it easy to get the blade out may get used more.

Sorry about the divorce. We just had a campout and it can be, in unexpected ways, a restorative. It is great to see boys grow and mature. We just had a "Iron Chef" challenge campout and it was funny to see how one Patrol worked hard to "poison" the judges (us Adults) by putting every ingredient (Meat, mushrooms, milk, onions, marshmallows, chocolate)they could find into a soup. It was gross looking but was the best tasting! Made me laugh. Also seeing one of the boys (on his own)teach a new adult one of the knots. Had to go over and over it until the Dad learned it.

Never forget the power of a good idea; it would carry on somehow.

Eamonn you made me smile. My old world maternal Portuguese grandparents had a an old lithograph of the smiling Jesus with the glowing heart as well as a matching ceramic lamp. Used to terrify me when I was little and had to sleep in that bedroom. The eyes would follow me around the room...or maybe I was a very guilty 6 year old. As for Kennedy I believe the Warren Report and actually read it many years ago (in 6th grade what a nerd). Kennedy made a stop in Tampa before Dallas and many locals recall how laughably easy it was for folks to get within 6 feet or so of him. Several high schoolers ran right next to his car for several blocks. A local man, known to be a nut, managed to stand right in front of him--literally touching--during a speech before a local policeman, not secret service, pulled him away. Security was a different story in those days. No pre-trip sweeps of crazies, snipers on the roof, or alternate secure routes.

Me and my boys use a lot of Military surplus gear. The European gear is pretty good. I have gotten some very sturdy backpacks for $20-40.

Me and my boys use a lot of Military surplus gear. The European gear is pretty good. I have gotten some very sturdy backpacks for $20-40.

We have had boys have multiples on the same night but we switch adults.

I am experiencing some drop off from (minimal involvement)scouts and more vocal comments from my more liberal than me friends (who talk about how tolerant they are right before they are intolerant of my scouting and church). I think the minimal involvement scout parents may use it as an excuse but they were not that committed. I think our drop off from Scouts is unhappiness from our boy-led transition; they either all-in or turned off. I am OK with that. I am a little more concerned about the sharp drop-off in cross-over interest this year. I do not know the reason for it--it could be the controversy, competition, or a fluctuation. I think that may be where the danger is--cub parents redirecting their kids from "controversial" boy scouting to lacrosse and other sports. But it is still early in the cross-over season.

Oh Boy! Still cannot get my youngest (13) to read it. Drives me crazy.

As an "extra work" parent who is a Scouter I agree. Some boys, for a range of reasons, need a whole lot more "overhead". It is only fair, whenever possible, for the parent to pick up the slack somehow. I often work with the other extra-work boys--and it is always less stressful than working with my own.

Gee whiz. Bye bye. I do not think Alabama and Mississippi could afford it. I saw where MS gets $2 in Federal funds for $1 in Fed taxes, Alabama about $1.60. Boys Scouts of Texas might get some cool hats. You know on 2nd thought if secession means they get to KEEP the boys in Irving it might be a good thing.

Hey I would just like to get my state to count the votes before the weekend!

I do not think it is a mandate. For example my Wife is pro-life and anti-gay (long sigh)but is supported Obama. I asked her about the abortion issue and she said she didn't like the way the republicans said it. She said it needs a more thoughtful solution. I do think it is a sign that times are changing; especially in urban areas and the younger generation sees it as less of an issue. But I doubt we are going to say it is OK to smoke marijuana just because some referendum passes. I think BSA needs to get ahead of the issue somehow.