Tampa Turtle

It is a good argument. On the one hand re-doing things means it the unit can get better at ironing out the kinks--continous improvement and all that. On the other hand doing the same yearly program breeds boredom after boys do it a couple times. Maybe a multi-year schedule or alternate events?

This discussion is making me hungry. I think the secret is learning what the imputs, outputs, and profits are. We have done some fundraisers where scout families were putting in so much free time and stuff it really would be cheaper, faster, and easier just to charge everyone another $10. If the goal is high visiblity rather than make money we do some of those too and we try to at least break even. I think there is a great benefit to the Troop for the fellowship of doing a shared task. So the goals can be: (1) Making the most money (profit not gross) (2) Having a group project. (3) Advertising the unit (goodwill)\ (4) Teaching the boys values. Deaf Scouter has a great point, the right type of in-kind donation can make all the difference.

SSS must disagree (I LOVE the Pogo Avatar) . Although I would prefer to EAT at the Pancake dinner we find Spaghetti a better money maker. Our Troop is involved in both and both are heavily attended. We do Spaghetti with Sauce (4-6 meatballs), Garlic Bread, Salad (pre-made) and a dessert and sell for $4-5. Raw materials cost us $2 so we make $3. We do it as a takeaway so we can typically make 500-600 dinners and sell 1,000 tickets (plus get an additional 30% in contributions from not carb eaters). We market it as a "don't cook drive through". Once you solve the pasta making problem (it takes HOURS to cook that many pounds of pasta--we have the help of a restaurant that flash cooks the pasta ahead of time so it shortens the time) We have been doing this for about a decade and are blessed by our CO having a good kitchen. The pancake dinner is a great social occasion but has several issues. First is folks prefer to sit down so you have a capacity issue. We have a large cafeteria to use but still it is a cap. Second is that you have a through put bottleneck on how many pancakes you can flip at one time. We have 4 large industrial ovens with huge hot surfaces and we cannot keep up. Second is that folks (especially scouters ;p expect protein (Bacon, Sausage) which gets expensive per person AND milk, coffee, and OJ. So we have to charge $10 and it costs us $5-7 for materials. And we have to bus tables. Between the price point and the capacity issue we make less money for more effort. I dont know how breakfast places do it. That said pancake dinner is a great fellowship opportunity and lets the locals see our boys and have led to some goodwill and new contributions. We have played with also doing a sausage/dog sort of drive through So study your costs, price points, and logistics on how you plan to do it step and step. Go to restaurant supply stores for bulk food (we buy spaghetti sauce by the 1/2 gallon) for costing. Look for someone who cooked for large groups. Good luck!

bnelon, My point was his fear of the hassle and potential expense--warrented or not- leading him to decide that the perception of POTENTIAL of problems was not worth the distraction from his core mission. Which might kill the Troop in any case. Hence the need for clear guidelines from BSA and National CO's for local operators on the issue.

The mom is being unreasonable. I was never in Boy Scouts as a lad but I could have completed each and every requirement on my own somehow up to Eagle and while that might make me "good as a boy scout" I would be neither a Boy Scout or Eagle. What kind of lesson is this lady teaching? How are they gonna handle College applications? Agree this is up to the SE to fix.

I talked briefly with my UMC minister this sunday. His position was he loves having a large Troop in a small church. And he says he can be welcoming to Gays at the church and at the Troop while not embracing the lifesttle. BUT his main concern was, in a small cash strapped church, the fear of a local option leaving the local church on its own to spend $$$ to defend itself from litigation from either disgruntled side. So he is waiting on National Methodist leadership to figure that out. But he was worried and he is a pretty level-headed pragmatic minister.

I think there are two inter-related issues the boys and the adults. As for the boys I agree with Skip. I just had a 13 year 1st Class old just come out (a family friend) and I am pretty sure he hasn't kissed anyone beside his dog at this point. It explained why he and his best friend/tent buddies parted ways recently. Tent buddy was not comfortable and now 1st Class has a backpacker tent. They still hang out but just sleep seperate. Pretty sensible resolution. A few weeks later another boy (bit of a hulking bully) had called him a (gay euphemism). Gay scout who was out weighed by 50 pounds and 3 years said "Yes I am a _. I would prefer to kiss boys and not girls and I presume when I grow up I will want to sleep with them. So what? If you want to kill me for being a _, then do it now and get it over with. If not shut the h_ll up and act like a scout." Bully shut up and left him alone. A while later they were working and laughing. It was pretty gutsy to watch and my heart broke for the boy who had finally had enough. One of the bravest things I have seen a while. So as far as the boys I do not want to be in the business of prosecuting lads who are already going through a tough time. Now for adults I am a little more uncomfortable.

In my exerience it is best to have it stored at a "neutral" site such as a (donated) storage or a trailer. I have seen a Pack where it was stored at a garage blow up and then the person in possession of the track treat it as his property. If you are fortunate enough to have an affiliated Troop maybe you can share some storage space there...

Our long suffering Cub Master made them from practice arrows with various stripes and devices showing their "service record". Boys worked hard to earn stuff to jazz up therir arrows and my sons still proudly display them years later. However as the Pack grew she she sometimes had to make 20+ arrows! She said she stayed up late many nights but that it was a good problem to have.

I believe the intent is pretty clear. The boy needs to show profiency on a backpacking stove (I think best during a backpacking trip--the planning is the thing) and another time using (in our Troop) using the ol' Coleman 2 burner Patrol box style. Some boys do a Dutch oven since we do that a lot. We want the boys to learn backpacking stoves so they can do more ambitious adventures later and be able to cook for their patrol.

If I recall our (very large pack) had 1st, 2nd and 3rd for (Tiger, Wolf-Bear, Webelos) and 6 design categories. Everyone got a ribbon and every car got raced in at least 2 heats. (which took a loooong time) Last award was a big trophy (and small gift) for Best Sportsmanship for the boy the CM spotted cheering on the other's cars. (When we got a nice track we retired the old one and set it up as an area for tag-alongs to roll old cars down too. That was popular.) The last few years I was at the pack we started photographing the cars as they got checked in and immediately putting them in a slide show so everyboy's car got splashed on the screen. Occasionally some shots of the deseperate pre-race tinkering (and hand injuries) to bring them under 5oz. A highlight was a Scouter who was the MC and managed to come up with a racing nickname for every car that raced. Pretty hard when there is 80+ We occasionally had a most spectaular crash award which was a necklace of old toy car tires and parts.

Our pack(well funded through Popcorn) usually gave the boys a compass or a BSA carbinneer depending on what the Web leaders suggested. Most of the guys got a AOL arrow and we gave out home made photo based placemats and B&G table decorations of each of the boys. I like the idea of the Scout Books (are affiliated Troop is a non-necker one) I would stay away from mess kits--boys will usually drop them in a year or so of scouting in lieu of a plastic bowl. By the time most of our boys made it to crossover time most of them had a mess kit, flashlight, and knife. I gave my last boys that cross-overed Boy Scout knifes at my expense. I had been with them a long time and a parent gave me a generous gift so I spent it on them. In general I left this to the mom's--who could go a little crazy some years. I like the idea of the personalized memento especially since not all of them may go into scouts. I wrote each of my boys a note. I later heard from one mom that the boy kept out for several years--which was nice.

Our pack(well funded through Popcorn) usually gave the boys a compass or a BSA carbinneer depending on what the Web leaders suggested. Most of the guys got a AOL arrow and we gave out home made photo based placemats and B&G table decorations of each of the boys. I like the idea of the Scout Books (are affiliated Troop is a non-necker one) I would stay away from mess kits--boys will usually drop them in a year or so of scouting in lieu of a plastic bowl. By the time most of our boys made it to crossover time most of them had a mess kit, flashlight, and knife. I gave my last boys that cross-overed Boy Scout knifes at my expense. I had been with them a long time and a parent gave me a generous gift so I spent it on them. In general I left this to the mom's--who could go a little crazy some years. I like the idea of the personalized memento especially since not all of them may go into scouts. I wrote each of my boys a note. I later heard from one mom that the boy kept out for several years--which was nice.

We are doiing Scout Sunday this weekend (the 10th). The Troop is coming out in force with boys and adults in uniform attending services, boys as ushers, and helping with parking. We have a new minister and want to make a good impression--we do this every year but this time a little more effort. We were asked NOT to do the color guard this time. On the church grounds we always have a "campsite" set up with a fire, a lashed bamboo gate way, and some dutch oven treats to share--we invite folks over for that.

Our pack(well funded through Popcorn) usually gave the boys a compass or a BSA carbinneer depending on what the Web leaders suggested. Most of the guys got a AOL arrow and we gave out home made photo based placemats and B&G table decorations of each of the boys. I like the idea of the Scout Books (are affiliated Troop is a non-necker one) I would stay away from mess kits--boys will usually drop them in a year or so of scouting in lieu of a plastic bowl. By the time most of our boys made it to crossover time most of them had a mess kit, flashlight, and knife. I gave my last boys that cross-overed Boy Scout knifes at my expense. I had been with them a long time and a parent gave me a generous gift so I spent it on them. In general I left this to the mom's--who could go a little crazy some years. I like the idea of the personalized memento especially since not all of them may go into scouts. I wrote each of my boys a note. I later heard from one mom that the boy kept out for several years--which was nice.

Scoutingagain is correct--it will only make things worse.

Sorry for the HTML--I am having a hard time with this new software. No emphasis implied.

Wow, National never disappoints me in its capacity to rise to new levels of disappointment. These guys--and the board--are professionals? A total cock-up. The worst of both worlds--just anger both sides. Can we just resolve this and move on?

I tried and could not follow it. But I like Moosie's Avatar.

I wondered because I am involved in 2 Methodist Churches one of which is openingly "welcoming" and the other more "traditional". Both are in the same district of the United Methodist Church so I wonder how the UMC will parse their response. I think there are some doubts about how workable the local option will be.

I agree in that I miss the "last 24 hours" link. It was fun to see the "hot" topics converstaions. Now I cannot find them with search.

To those folks worried about Gay adults preying on innocent boys; do you as a heterosexual lust adult lust and molest adolescent girls? Or is the temptation just too much?

The Catholic church as also had problems with priests who molested girls--it was not just a gay thing. And it was the systematic cover-up that blew up in their faces. And I say again we have Gay scouts NOW. They are just staying more out of sight; though most their buddies know anyway.

Perhaps some folks can form a unit stressing heterosexual values by admitting....girls. Or recruit this Scoutmaster Miss Candypanties I keep hearing about.

Oh you guys!