Tampa Turtle

Clearly it is time to go, you have no leverage with the CO. It happens. It almost happened to us under rumors and misunderstandings with a new Pastor but now he is our biggest supporter. But in your case its, done, over, finished. Again it doesn't matter if it was fair or not. I thought Beaver's comments were not off base. And you really did not provide much info. I was on a church board for a while and there were reasons people were let go. Usually it was because they did not handle something well (son of a leader doing something wrong and it going unreported and the CO getting wind) or something like embezzlement. Sometimes it is because a scout ran over the ministers pet turtle as a kid or whatever. I think the reason may be important in case you take that person with you with the new unit. I hope you do not treat other scouters like you treated some on this board, if so you may be running a one-person show. We ALL get emotional about our units but if it is really about the boys the smart thing is to start a new unit with associated numbers. We has one local one that had a split #33 and the spin off is #133--they say they are "100% stronger".

Orienteering class went OK (there are always boys that need to knock that out anyway). Tug of wars were popular and can be surprisingly hazardous (discourage jokers from wrapping rope around neck). Hits were Hatchet throwing (boys broke most of them eventually). Slingshots, chick peas, and tinplate targets kept boys lined up all day...and how old school is that! Blind tent making (no doubt out of a training manual) was fun. Just have a non-blindfolded helper with the stake mallet. First aid carry competition Dutch oven competition was popular with about half the Troops. They did an outside movie night away from the main area. The younger guys seemed excited by that. The older boys just went to sleep earlier. Not popular: Campfire skits and contests-while a few Troops still do this most boys seemed bored. Any part where the adults spoke for more than two minutes. When an older boy or venturer talked they might listen for up to five. ---- I have been to some bad ones. The one the boys enjoyed enough to say they want to do again was organized and staffed mostly by OA members and the leadership was almost all boy led.

We once had a trip on the Peace River in Florida (the name is a clue to its passiveness) after a heavy rain had caused it to record floods and then gone down (some). It was a challenge in that the banks had the tops of trees that were normally underwater and the best landings were unavailable. The current was a little unpredictable. Also we got stuck at a bridge where there was a log jam and little clearance underneath because the water was still high. So yes check with the local outfitter especially the reports of those who just did it. That all said our main issue were dozens and dozens of crabby Gators on the banks and the newbie canoe that rammed one--scared that poor critter! Memorable trip.

Might want a minimum number of throws...some fell apart after once.

I like the simplicity of the approach. We used to have the "public school rule" for years; ie we only had meetings when public school was in session. (though we had some special high adventure trips over some breaks). You never really had to consult the Calendar much. Then we had a SM who started adding extra meetings to those "wasted" days and the whole system fell apart.

Some Patrols just "get it" more than others. We had one that was usually #1 or #2 and took a lot of pride in their patrol box, etc. The being able to pick the Patrol camping area was a very coveted benefit and they usually picked the best spot farthest away from the adults. On occasion we found they had pinched the best site from the adults!

Lashing. Timed. Make a working Catapult with points for distance.

Do not, repeat do not use Menthol shaving creme.

I think there should be a special PITA knot for just such occasions. Did a 5 day hike paired with such a lad. And did a one day 25 miler with a boy who was truly not ready and complained for the entire time. Being so slow I often end up hiking with the ones who are unhappy who also happen to be slow. However it forces me to be cheerful to keep up their morale which in turns helps me feel better.

Yes this the age where you get the most bang for the buck on the Patrol Flag and that boy identity. Just make sure that the adults don't take over too much.

If you do make a promise, even if the boys lose interest, keep it. We had a few leaders that promised a party or a fishing trip to boys who earned XX and later forgot all about it or just didn't do it. Major withdrawal of trust. The boys do notice those things even if they never say it.

It needs to come from the boys to have any meaning. We had one where it was put a pie in the SM's face but ended up being all about him and in the end the boys were turned off. A silly song and dance was popular once. We make the PL do at least one, preferably 2, Patrol Activities every 6 months. Some did a camping sleep over, a few Q-Zar or Movie dates, one just grilled hotdogs and played video games. Once done it really seemed to help camaraderie; just getting them to do it... A few years that we made sure that when a Patrol one a competition it got displayed for a few meetings. Tried a Hogwarts-style points system but never got anywhere...

My older boy is *on the spectrum* and socially awkward and ...eventually...was able to show leadership and pick up enough friends (good influences and bad) to make the trip worthwhile. He was pretty quiet at first but eventually won some of the older boys over by tough paddling and hiking. I agree that in many school systems some of the folks who should be directing you to help (School Psychologists, etc) act more like gate keepers than facilitators. In any case if the boy needs work in an area than Scouts is a good way to find away to work on it. Feeling a little melancholy as son#1 ages out this thursday after 6-1/2 years as a very active Boy Scout.

I think a little flexibility about attendance requirements is needed for older boys as well. They will have conflicts and if you force them to choose they might not choose you. But we expect them to keep the commitments they make and if unable to function in a formal leadership slot to step aside for those who are willing to put the time in.

Lord help me I agree with Stosh on his earlier comment about 'fumes. I keep hearing those reasons/excuses about Boys dropping out but then I see them participating around town in other, often more demanding activities not chasing girls and driving cars. To be honest a majority of the High School boys I know could take or leave driving; it is their parent pushing them. I think it is a boring older boy program and making them work. I see a shift to viewing scouts as being a waste of time as they hit those mid teens. BUT...when they get more autonomy like being in charge and being entrusted with sign offs more of them stay. I am also a Marching Band parent and often see the Band Director give his youth leadership more autonomy than a lot of Scout Masters. And the kids are very loyal to 'the band family' as they call it not me. (This is in spite of the Band Director BTW mostly). As Pogo said "I have met the enemy and it is us". Adult leaders and parents muck up this process pretty good. I have been as guilty as anybody. However this has been a good thread...I will bring up this topic as a goal for the youth leadership. Good observation on how it might affect the choice of Patrol Leader.

David CO- what is the difference between a Religion and a Denomination? Stosh-I am surprised you are not a member of ANY church. Can't find one you like?

Perhaps Catholic Bashing was a cheap shot. I'll change that to Papist Pounding.

The Catholic Church allows Orthodox to receive communion which indicates that THEY think it is about the same. Stosh I think you are just enjoying a good catholic bash. Get over it.

Thanks, I'll pass that along.

As a person with a degree in Fine Art and a Masters in Architecture who wants more Art in education changing STEM to STEAM just seems to dilute the concept is silly. Or dilute is not the proper term...to change the concept into a gaseous state.

Shhh we still have Trebuchets...

Most Eastern Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Armenian) do as well...they just use a different term.

We are working on this one. We do have a pre-BOR worksheet that is needed to be gone over and signed by the PL before the BOR. It's a start.

Yes! My wife had a cross on and everybody profiles everybody. It was pretty obvious, apparently even we hid any apparent signs. And yes people would engage pretty quick. We were not part of a tour and were looking (usually) for Christian sites and often had to ask folks for directions, etc and off we would go. It was mostly pretty fun as it was never personal.

They started the 1st meeting last night by promptly (and politely) requesting all the adults but the SM and the Advancement Chair (for the MB updates on the laptop) out of the room for a MBC training session. I heard it went well but I had no idea!