Tampa Turtle

Very good info. Why BSA National didn't put something like this out yesterday is beyond me!

To be fair, a SM buddy was telling me of a problem he was having with an older gay boy scout who was hitting on a younger lad at a camp out. He was rebuffed and retaliated by stripping the boy of POR duties. Stalking etc followed (and things went down hill from there, police, counselors, etc, etc). So even Boys only issues of sexual misconduct do occur and have to be dealt with. I think rules will need to be tweaked...especially the first few years. I do think the social dynamic will change. When Camp Woodruff started using Venture girls in the camp store our boys (of all ages) seemed to visit the stores a lot more than previously.

We considered doing a 'sausage-dog' sale as long as you meet the health code permits.

( I stole this from a Monk acquaintance of mine) The dissenter is always most loyal “Dissent†is one of the more difficult dimensions of public discourse to define. It’s not the same as the political sparring that is expected of political parties—even required at some level—if a republic is to be a republic. And yet, dissent is easy to recognize. Dissent comes out of the depth of the heart and exists only in service to what both sides say they are committed to preserving. It comes out of a soul in anguish over life that must be bartered in the process of saving it. Most of all, dissent always has a place and a time and a face we do not expect to see in this place at this time. It has the character of exactly what the institution wants most to produce: total loyalty and complete identification. The problem is that both sides define their one same loyalty differently. The establishment is always loyal to the very institutionalism of the institution in question. The dissenter is always most loyal instead to what the institution itself claims to be about. As a result, loneliness is at the very heart of dissent. Loneliness is its character and isolation is its cost: it is one young man facing a row of tanks in Tiananmen Square. It is the pacifist Dorothy Day on a hunger strike in a Washington jail for having the temerity to protest on behalf of women’s suffrage at the gates of the White House. It is Rosa Parks refusing to get out of her seat on a public bus. It is the few who hold out against total dissolution of the highest ideals of any institution. —from “The Woman Who Wouldn’t: When Vision Gives Voice to Dissent,†by Joan Chittister, in Not Less than Everything,

First I apologize for any bitchy un-scout like comments yesterday. I care a lot about this stuff and I found Nationals timing off. An issue with me, and it is a big issue, is how National rolled this out. Obviously they were going to do this...how many females suddenly started appearing in pictures of the scouting magazines, the meetings at Council were really about 'exploring an option' but seemed like a one-sided sell job. Why did they not take the time to include a FAQ of the issues confronted at the local level. We are the front lines and at my Troop things started LAST NIGHT. (One mom wanting to know if her 15 year old daughter in Venturing can join the Troop in January, our Scout Master and one of a neighboring Troop {and guys who have commanded and experienced integrating females into military and LEO units} stating they will not continue next year, several parents emailing they may quit including a Life Scout's, and both our Committee Chair and Life to Eagle Coach saying they will leave. And we are pretty mixed unit politically and socially. It was a rough night and we still have not heard from the boys. I do know my two Eagle boys have recently aged out said they now will not continue their plans as young ASM's and they love Scouting.) So now I must trust National to continue to provide a youth-led, patrol driven, outdoor oriented program? Will they bend away from that as well? Will Duty to God become a local option as well? They withdrew a HUGE amount of trust by the way they did this. It has been hard enough as it is to deliver a traditional program with National's Merit Badge Academies, etc. I am a feminist. I have a female boss and a female director. I am a commie liberal Obama loving Democrat. But I think there is a valid, respectable argument to having Boy only scouting and a national discussion on the best way to handle it. We never had a chance to have that. National made the change and get the kudos and Locals will have to clean up the resulting mess. I feel I must question Irving's reliability and competence. I actually feel sorry for the professional scouters at Council as they will be caught in the middle.

Me too. 'Things fall apart; the center cannot hold'

Touche'

The BSA twitter feed seemed to be running pretty negative but hard to know what folks really think. It seems people with cubs are ok with it, families already in scouting with daughters are happy. An awful lot of Eagle scouts and eagle scout parents seem pretty upset...just not what they signed up for. Unfortunately that is the group that a lot of local leaders, FOS, and future scout parents come from. I suspect that. in the best of membership turn-around, there will be short term drop off before any larger influx from Cubbing come in.

I do not thinking you are being respectful to those who have put a lot of time into the program and do not agree with the change. LatinScout seems like he was a heavily involved scouter at the local level.

Notice some of the Council and District social media feeds shutting down comments though positive to negative was running 3-2 to 1-1. Interesting.

I have been in those meetings. Most do not want the expense and the hassle of dealing with it. Some will just opt out.

It WILL be co-ed Troops because the american public is already giving kudos for going co-ed. Try to re-wind from that reality.

Local Option? Ha ha ha ha. Until the 1st lawyer approaches the CO. Then it is either fold or admit.

I am DYING for a reporter to ask Trump to tweet about this.

A case where a journalist puts together what is lying in plain sight. I still would have appreciated some data on GSUSA's finances.

Interesting read in Slate. Wish they had given equal coverage to GSUSA's woes: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2017/10/why_there_s_never_been_more_bitter_rancor_between_the_girl_scouts_and_the.html

ItsBrian, while filling out your application take time to reflect on all the work, skills, and adventures you have compiled up to this point.

In our council pretty much as SSScout described. Be honest and objective in your answers. (Bad references really cannot tank you but might, at worst, bring up some tougher questions.) Most importantly...get those Merit Badges done! (I will be singing this song to some boys tonight!)

We went outside and walked around to various stations. They covered everything down to what if someone got killed. It was OK. I think an overnighter is reasonable.

We once did a 5 miler in the 90's in Florida in sand. Whole Troop of 40 got lost but we all had the mandatory 2 Nalgenes of water. One boy, built like a weeble, overheated and we all donated the 2nd Nalgene of water to help cool him down. No shade. We, slowly, got back to camp for 2 more miles but it was 95 degrees by then. I think we might have lost him if not for the water.

I have seen this a couple times and it does a heart good. Once on a canoeing trip a young guy, 11, was left behind at camp because he was too sick and an older boy, 16, took 90 minutes to show him to build a perfect tee-pee fire twig by twig. Another time see a young guy frustrated with using a flint and steel and a older scout quietly shows him the right angle and pressure by putting his hands over the lads. The older boys who are really good with the young ones are few and far between (it is hard for a 16 or 17 year old to want to hang with 11 year olds) but the ones that do are treated like rock stars and are long remembered long after they are gone.

Thanks. He just finished his last requirement signatures, just turn in paperwork and wait for EBOR. Wants to finish up a partial or two just for kicks.

I am still confused. Son #2 will eagle a 17 years 11 months with 36 merit badges. What is he entitled to under this new scheme? (he knows no one cares about the palms).

In 10 years even with a large Troop never saw a need to do this. If needed a couple "whose tent is that" or "what tent is 'x' in" was sufficient. Boys ALWAYS know. But then we do not provide tents.

I still find the new policy confusing.