Tampa Turtle

The Family Camping themed articles appeared in a recent Boys Life edition that went to the older Boys so it is natural for them to get confused. Some of our boys brought it up on their own.

I apologize on "scout age boys and girls"...I should have said parents of sons or daughters some of them have kids in BSA, GSUSA. My point was what the public THINKS was said. We are influenced by the public opinion of folks who have no intention of putting kids in Scouts.

I really like the idea...I doubt I can get my guys to do it since I couldn't get them to video a 3 minute response to your Troop...and I tried bribery! We don't have an attic but a hidden choir room with furniture from the 1940's...it looks like Churchill's wartime bunker. We also have a secret room in the bell tower but you have to climb a 20' ladder and it often has wasps so we try to keep it secret... We got an industrial kitchen does that count? The haunted walk-in freezer!

As I am know in my neighborhood, school, and work as a Scouter man of man have I been getting questions and comments. Now that National has started sending out FAQ's and clarifications (I got mine yesterday) I am able to 'try' to explain the official line. (t helps that I have worked in government and have much practice presenting policy I may disagree with while sounding impartially.) I probably talked to over a dozen scouters face to face in the three Troops I am social with over the issue and I estimate 2 out of 3 were opposed to the move. Reactions ranged from 'I am ready to quit' to 'discouraged'. I would estimate that most of the guys have 5 years+ of leader experience. But none of them have any illusions of complaining doing anything. There was discussion about how to pursue a formal designation as a "Boys only" unit (I am not sure what good that is short of the C.O. demanding it...you get new parents in all the time. Eventually the co-ed feeder pack parents will change the culture which I think is the plan anyway IMHO) I showed some mom's at work they BSA FAQ chart that showed the Boy Troops and Girl Troops side by side. They have scout age boys and girls. They were outraged and said on the news it said nothing about 'Separate but Equal'. I remember one comment well: "So Girls can now earn Eagle as long as the stay in their Girl Ghetto". I then said there may be an option for Girl patrols and Boy Patrols in some Troops and who knows what in the future. They were of the opinion that anything short of mixed sex Boy Scout patrols next year was NOT what Boy Scouts was talking about. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned all that. I think National has a herculean task of aligning what their proposed policies are what the perception is of the change is going to be both in and outside of scouting. Boys think one thing, scouters another, and the outside public something else. Jumping the track indeed. They have or on the verge of losing control of the conversation and in the middle of the muddle is this thing called 'Family Camping' the train is heading for while everyone is looking elsewhere.

What are 'Belt Keepers'?

Hello I met some scouts from the Netherlands outside of Buckingham Palace in London in the summer of 2013. A great bunch of young people.

This story gives a few more details: http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/19/scouts-overreact-in-kicking-out-a-cub-for-pointed-questions/

Yes, if he was a kid or family that was constantly '$--t stirring' and there told that there would be a sense of decorum I'd consider a 'time out' from the Pack. But if the Senator was basically doing a stump speech and the boy was earnest and informed I'd tell him to come cover to my Troop in a few years. I saw several videos...he did do a long question on gun control that made her uncomfortable. I suspect they were doing Webelo Citizen #10... We have a politically diverse Troop and maintaining civility while being open to respectful and thoughtful discourse is a BIG deal. Not always achieved though. I have an issue with kicking a Webelo out over something like that, it happened to me waaay back in 1972 and was one of the reasons I did not go on into Boy Scouts back in the day. I would like to know the whole story.

Casablanca gambling? I'm shocked!

Except he tries to 'trigger' me at the Dinner table constantly. No small talk with that one.

Mashy, We are all men at this time and are quite well staffed this year. I have tried to recruit a number of likely lady candidates into ASM's but other than one who went to camp with us no luck thus far. However we have quite a few Mom's doing key Committee jobs and MBC; in fact they formed their own patrol one year and socialize occasionally for a 'Girls Night Out' when the Troop is away. We have always been fortunate to have a strong well organized committee. As for the women who turned me down the reasons (in no particular order) I got were: (1) They wanted their boys to have male influences only on campouts (often a single mom) (2) They were pretty conservative about the Boy Scout Tradition (often an active duty military mom--no wall flowers, mind you) (3) Their son would not want them too (4) They were 'retired' after Cub Scouts (5) Would prefer the time off (really a general parent thing, there) (6) Active GSUSA, Venturing leader and plate quite full (7) Not sure other men would welcome them at campouts. (a few are opposed) (8) Not sure other wives would approve of them hanging out with the other dads all weekend (this was more an issue than I imagined) THAT said after working on (7) with the other ASM's we loosened up on letting Mom's who were worried about their Scout (young scout, special needs, transfer after a difficult previous Troop) coming on the campouts and camping with the ASM patrol. On three of the four occasions we did that we did have 'Mommy' problems (but then we have all had 'Daddy' problems at campouts haven't we) that interfered with discipline, patrols, meals etc. That left a real bad taste with the older boys which I think explains their reaction about "Family Camping" and "Cub Scout Camping".

You said the right thing. Even if they did not change their behavior that time they may do so in the future.

Oh I GET that. When I went to Israel with my scout sons we thought "man, Jesus and his Disciples were really good hikers, he had to have some serious calves", there are hills everywhere. Small place, big changes in elevation. Every time my minister said "and they went back up to the Mount of Olives" I visualized that slope. We followed some of the Jesus Trail from Nazareth to Arbel...I was not gonna do that hand over hand cliff part! And we saw the Sea of Galillee it was a week after one of their storms rolled through and trashed the docks. Real eye opener. And I meant by the hand grenade comment that the Gospels record a very manly and stoic Jesus at the Crucifixion.

LOL I just heard my older son rebuked his jrAFROTC Colonel (ret.) over some disorganization with "My Boy Scout Troop is better organized than this!". I do not think he liked that one bit.

"you've got questions, we've got blank stares" Thanks I needed that! Poor suckers, they are stuck in the middle.

I will concede that changing some girls views of boys and men would have benefits to some individuals as well.

I would agree once one looks past the modern perception of his gentleness = wimpiness. Like the guy who jumps on the grenade to save his squad--if you can forgive the theological crudeness.

I'd be surprised any EBOR of review would fail a boy at this point.

There are times I feel stupid around him. Like when he argued with the Orthodox Rabbi and could cite Talmud passages from memory. (which all Rabbi's love) Of course he has plenty of brain power free from not doing his laundry, etc.

Then you are assuming the purpose of Scouting is to overcome sexism in boys?

My boys see Girls in leadership positions all the time in Marching Band and jrROTC and youth group. They have also hiked and climbed with girls.

To protect the weak, stand for your beliefs, respect women, seek adventure, be self-sufficient, and take charge when needed. Respect and civility toward the other. Showing leadership when it is needed. Doing the right thing even if it is the tough thing. Knowing enough self-sufficient skills so you can help your self and others in an emergency. Being adaptable. Learning to work in a band of brothers.

My older son got the proverbial 'which of the Scout law would you drop'. The BOR lead told me it was refreshing since most boys say 'I can't pick one' and my son (the bible thumper) said 'Kind' because he would pick being Reverent over Kind if it mean't saving the soul of an unbeliever. The interview kicked into a higher gear when he was asked if extremism such as ISIS condemns a religion like Islam. My son then started quoting parts of the Koran (which I had no idea he knew) in Arabic in illustrating his position.

I was (yet again) humbled by how much some scouts have personally invested in the program and how some of them have pretty perceptive reads of what the adults are doing. On occasion that has included a pretty fair assessment of my personal, physical, and emotional assets and faults.

Eagle1993...they know all about girls in Venturing and Sea Scouts. They have been with (rare) girls at camps. I did explain the 'parallel structure' concept. Several boys do not believe that Girls will 'stay' in a parallel program other than a couple years; that it is clearly a short term evolutionary step that some units will just ignore anyway because they will not have enough adult leaders. (BTW we also have female leaders.) I was surprised at that one. As for what they should know....look at it from their perspective...it has been over a week and there has been no official announcement specifically directed to the Boys in BSA now; just a general press release to the world. It has been a week and no one I know directly has gotten a word from our Council or District. We pass all that stuff down and some of the boys read them; in the interim we have gotten news on Merit Badge Academies, Storm cleanups, etc etc but not a major policy change. As I have said before Irving should have developed the 'how' details and FAQ and followed up the announcement with information to the Troops. Their confusion is a natural reaction to how this was handled. If what they fear is not what is going to happen than it is National's fault in bungling the message and causing needless blow back. I do not blame the listener. I think their concerns are pretty clear...those boys, right or wrong, want Boy Scouting to remain boys. They seemed highly offended that no one asked the Scouts themselves just parents. Don't kill the messenger.