Tampa Turtle

There are different Troop cultures in different Troops sometimes it is easier to find the Troop that is 'doing things right' in your eyes, shake the dust off your sandals in the old Troop, and go where you are wanted. I am all for fighting the good fight but be aware time is of the essence when you have a kid in scouting.

Our CE on the 'Family Scouting' announcement: Q. Will girls have to meet the same requirement to achieve Eagle Scout? Yes. Our goal is for young women to aspire to and achieve the Eagle Scout rank by meeting the same criteria and achievements as young men.

If they bend the rules to accommodate the first girl there is going to be a lot of screaming and yelling from our Troop's Scouts and Scout parents about how we and BSA have been making THEM jump through all these hoops without exception. How will they react? I think a few may quit in discuss but more likely adults will relent and grease the skids for those boys remaining. She may have been doing the same things but she was not a legal scout, sorry. My son#2 just aged out and wants to continue being a Boy Scout, not an adult leader, not a venturer, but the rules say 18 and out. Awarding this girl an Eagle is also not fair to the families who wanted girls to become Eagles but were waiting for the doors to finally open.

My wife loved red when she was a younger lass. Caused quite a scene in a church service one time LOL. I guess the pictures are real, our Council pushed them out as an FYI. Also one with an all girl Cub Scout Den --apparently it must be a staged photo for some future BSA material. Folks observed they were saluting the flag incorrectly so that will need to be fixed prior to publication. I'd link to it if I could figure it out. Please note: it included the following National photo shoot for the new Cub Scout handbooks ! For updated information send questions to Family.Program@scouting.org!

Stosh, if the recent actions of National has shown anything it is not really 'my' program it is their game and rules and they can change it when they want to. But yes the scouts (and it tends to be a subset) are my scouts. There still some boys I might want to call up for lunch just for a check in, or call over if I see them around town. And there are the ones who you never really considered that you connected with who walk up to you in public and shake your hand (or even hug you) and tell you the really appreciated it you (or give a belated apology for being extra-difficult). THAT is getting the Scout Paycheck $$$.

I agree. On the flip side when they go bad you feel a responsibility in that maybe you missed something. And when they pass you grieve deeply. I feel much more bonded to my Boy Scouts then the hundred different Cub Scouts I saw in my leadership there. I think because I saw them develop from children to men and I had so many shared experiences with individuals in the field where we shared joys and adversity and we saw each other at our best and less than ideal.

She was a MBC but did not feel welcome for the 1st two years. She helped out at some fund raisers - the "all hands on deck" ones. She was not interested in camping or doing advancement. She was much more sympathetic to my stories after dealing with the scouts! In the last year when the Scouts and Scouters are away on a big trip or Summer Camp the ladies plan a ladies poker night or party. I think it is a good sign.

As the new parent briefer I used to have a "Everyone Must Do Something' Speech as the first shot across the bow at the 1st meeting. The lazy smart ones start looking around for the easy to stuff do and we got a few more Merit Badge Counselors that way. A few parents were perfectly willing to drive scouts a few hours if they didn't have to stay over night --every little bit helps, right. We always had a list of suggested jobs, understudies, etc etc. ASM's were always a more controlled class --you had to make some commitments to break in there. A few Dad's were all gung ho until they had to WEAR a uniform shirt and if that was a deal breaker than they weren't gonna be that reliable to begin with.

Ya'know despite all their groovy new ideas one reason the Old Guard might view the New Volunteers with a jaundiced eye is the turn over in new leaders; a lot more is proposed than followed up with....

Not nerdy at all. It is a fascinating experience in human organizational dynamics!

It took me awhile to break in; it took much longer for my wife. Sometimes it is just simple turf issues that I have seen again and again at lots of organizations (school, PTA, Church). Another is that it takes a long time to develop a good Troop culture and it can easily be undermined by a well meaning new parent; I was that parent! Luckily I was shunted off for some other work for a while. But there is a "tyranny of those who show up and do the work"; the ones who show up day in and day out eventually grow their influence. But yeah we once had a guy who loved cook for masses of people and he would roll out a huge mobile kitchen for events; but he wanted to do it all himself. We ate pretty well for a while (though violating the Patrol method on them cooking for themselves) and as I was a new guy I went along after a few comments. A fellow new dad also liked to cook and offered to help (you know chop up, clean up, basic prep or any scutt work). The old timer threw a fit--it was all him or nothing. One campout he could not make it due to another commitment and the new dad made breakfast on a campout (it was pretty good too). Someone teased the old timer about the new guys cooking being almost as good and the old timer NEVER cooked another campout and event again. (I have also found that the biggest territorial battles are over the Kitchen followed closely by the Money and then Advancement.)

They program has a way of sucking you in. You can get attached to some of the lads and really want to be there for them though they may not really know it.

Luckily it is not a potential co-ed Troop; if all this Summer Camp dating going on we might want to tack on an additional $1 condom fee for the Troop stash. Be Prepared and all. (BS4G motto:Be Prepared. For. That)

I give this one Two Snarks!

Really, the cub one? My boys were cubs then and they had the ones with the Wolf on it. Maybe it was old stock.

Obviously the folks on this forum must get a lot of scouting as an adult Scouter to stay in despite all the sturm und drang in modern scouting. I have been thinking about this lately and I was wondering: why do you really do it? What is the pull of scouting to an adult over other pursuits? Just curious. ( I put this topic in 'Issues" rather than 'Program; since it is more of a philosophical thread.

Eagle 94-A1 you are dead on every point. I am seeing the leadership problem now in my Troop: (1) The old hand Scouters are throttling back their participation because of uncertainty and disapproval -backing off rather than completely walking away. . While they are not at every meeting these folks (which includes some women) are the ones that, since their boys are gone, have more patience with the odd boys, pass on Troop traditions, and seem to know the best about field and wood craft. I do not know if they will come back and engage more because they just love scouting too much or will later walk away so they don't look like Misogynists. (2) The active parents/uniformed leaders of the current Scouts seem the most upset with the change (I suppose because they are in the system they picked). There is a major push by at least half of the most active parents/ASM's/Committee members to "wrap up" Eagle (their words) as fast as possible before the girls arrive. (3) The less engaged parents (over worked folks half ASM and half coaching sports) bugged out shortly after the announcement with their kids to concentrate on their sport. While they often tend to drift away anyway it seems the change provided a good excuse. (4) We have had a few folks, mostly former cub scout den leader moms, fill in the gaps. (Usually we suggest cub scout leaders take a 6 month breather and get used to how different Boy Scouts is than Cubbing before donning the tan shirt). The down side is they pretty much switch from a Cub Scout Den theme approach to advocating what I will call "every day is a merit badge academy". (5) Since the middle aged to older boys (always a hard group to please) are vocally less than enthused with the change their moms are pretty mad about it and the most vocal group in opposition. Often these are the same moms who give their boys a push to stay in scouting when they lag in enthusiasm. They also provide key committee posts. (6) The current SM (we like to have two year terms) is planning to quit after year 1. He has been through gender integration in other venues (and did so successfully as a leader) and just doesn't want the hassle. As you know it is hard to find a good SM. With the announcement the next two best SM candidates are leaning more 'no'. (7) We have a couple terrific outdoorsy moms with lots of GSUSA experience chomping at the bit (and with their daughters) waiting to jump in. I have camped with them and they HATE GSUSA. The problem is while they are fine with the outdoor aspects of the program when they do join in they keep short circuiting the patrol process especially with the younger boys and do things for them. They have gone through BSA training but it seems a big cultural shift. Mind you this is ALL BEFORE we have gotten any guidance from National, Council, District on what to do. Despite all the assurances about parallel Troops or a boys only option we have girls knocking on the door NOW. As you all know it can be very hard to find good committed Scout leaders in the U.S. program. It requires a night a week, a campout a month, additional training time, and expenses. For a lot of reasons it gets harder and harder to find that kind of person. I know in our Troop corners are being cut, we ask less of the new leaders, some folks might rarely camp at all or show up on a regular basis. It takes more adults if they are less committed to cover the bases and as a result it gets harder to keep everyone on the same page. And the most important item on that page IMHO is keeping the adults out of the way of the scouts. Now it is entirely possible that, over time, enough a new leaders will fill those gaps and, again over time, build up enough experience to deliver good programs with boys and girl scout. But I fear that National will prop up any 'experience gap' with more things like Merit Badge Universities, class room like STEM badges, and rapid advancement because they are worried about numbers and delivering the traditional, scout led, patrol based outdoor program is becoming counter cultural hard work.

I used to use that joke with the New Parents on BSA YPT policy (I am the "New Parents" ASM many years). Was a quick way to figure out who was a little more uptight that the others. But I was told by the SM it was a little too edgy.

A Coffee Mug.

The old ones were pretty cool. I remember that they would have stories about Scouts camping out and wolf packs and the like. Exciting stuff. I used to read them faithfully as a cub scout drooling over when I could be a scout. Then there was a big switch around the 1970's--I guess this was the era of the new 'Urban Scouting' and the articles changed--longer thought pieces, some social justice stuff, less camping. My mom was surprised when I asked her to stop renewing the subscription. I think she got me 'True Magazine' though she thought it got a little racy -- it had "I survived a savage wolf attack'. (little did she know that I was smuggling old 1960's Playboys out of Dad's closet). One point I have is BSA has always used the magazines --when they paid attention to them-- to instruct the youth and scouters on what image they want to project. So it is logical to be wary of fuzzy 'Family Camping' articles as a possible change in BSA strategic direction. Of course it can simply be a change in editorial direction by individuals. Or it could be (as I suspect on a lot of things like uniforming) a committee decision process that produces a mediocre product. Another point I have is back in the day how did I get my "Scout Fix" after BL disappointed me? I found old issues, my Dad's 1942 Popular Mechanics for boys analogy (which I still have including Whiteys the German Sheppard's bite marks circa 1945), Dad's 1943 Boy Scout Book, and those old Seton Woodcraft books.

Belt looks different. I don't know how girls gonna like wearing suck baggy switchback pants. As I have said the move from the Iconic Yellow for Wolfs is a style blunder but National, long ago, stopped caring about tradition except as a "brand" (CE uses that term a lot -- I guess my Scouts are 'products' too. Oh well, time to TRY to move on, I can only keep so much moral outrage on so many things going so long.

I never saw the OA Brotherhood stipend promised me either. Actually the Senate Appropriations Committee (Mrs Turtle) told me that if I cut back as leader I could easily save about $500 a year which might be better put toward the occasional date night.

Actually Flagg has another point (I am tiring of agreeing with him). The adult leadership in our Troop is doing so many things now that just the proposal of doing anything much extra or different elicited responses of 'I'm not doing anything different', 'I'm not doing any special training', 'If it takes anymore leaders someone else can do it', and 'One more thing I am out of here'. Some may just go into scouting semi-retirement, ya know showing up for the occasional meeting, maybe showing some lashes, but not really helping guide the youth who lead it. We still have a mess at our CO a Methodist Church. It is not on our Pastor's radar, he will likely let the unit do whatever it wants. But the most pushback we got was from the ladies of the United Methodist Women (who include more than a couple former Girl Scout leaders), the UMW were always big supporters of our Scouts, they would kick in regular $500 and $1500 gifts to the Troop just because they felt we were setting such a good example.(oddly, enough the Methodist Men always disliked us, complained about something we did after every meeting--there was no placating them. They dwindled to nothing and oddly enough when the folded the church gave us the $500 left in their bank account) Now the UMW is questioning why the church will be hosting a co-ed unit if it could now be supported in a public school. It is just a headache!

I am REALLY outraged that while adding girls to my Troop will be an increase of genders by 100%, the 2018-2019 contract for ASM's only has a 50% pay bump.

YPT tip #4: Don't touch the scouts, even the sexy ones.