Tampa Turtle

I am a dog lover and have had a number of Belgian and German Shepherds. I trust dogs but not their owners. I have taken them on family campouts and hikes but never, never on a scouting trip. Why: 1-If I am busy I can never 100% be certain my herding oriented dogs are not going to chase after some running or teasing boys. I will be busy working at the campout. 2-We have had some folks bring their dogs -- but probably 40% of our families have dogs do I want 30-40 dogs running around. 3-A lot of families are irresponsible enough with their boys I suspect that a number of them would let good ol rover run free. And yeah how many dogs need to poop and not get picked up to become a hassle. 4-I don't even want to get into liability issues. Here in Florida I am completely uncovered for dog bites with my homeowners. That said I would love if every Patrol had their own Dog.

Agreed --visit different Troops. Each has a different culture. If there is something that rubs you or your boy raw it rarely gets better. My son agonized over two good troops. One was very spit and polish but heavy car campers. Very nice boys. The other had many more campouts, high adventure, but the boys were more rough and tumble. He chose the 2nd as he wanted more of a personal challenge. Both were good, each had its flaws, but were unique. Let your son look. And if he makes a wrong choice it is not for life; we always get a few transfers in both directions every year.

I think Scoutfish pretty much nailed it.

Good grief! I had 20 tigers and then 12. Do not make my mistake...BREAK THEM UP. I will be a lot more fun for them and for you. You can always piggy back some activities if it helps the other leader or share schedules but the smaller groups give the boys the attention they need.

Congrats on the 6 boys. You want quality not quantity. Even if you just got a few you are moving forward. Yes it can be disappointing when you do a lot of work and no one shows up. I had a Tiger meeting where only 2 of 20 Tigers showed up (usually averaged 12). Just me and my ADL and our sons. I was getting an attitude and our boys were expecting a meeting. Was really an Dad-son play-date but was Best.Meeting.Ever. Keep your focus on delivering a good program; the rest tends to work out.

Old Ox, For me you hit on a key point!I am now able to do many things I was never able to do as a youth. To share those things with my sons is priceless. I would have been in Boy Scouts in the mid '70's and it did not look that appealing (I did like the belt loops and berets), not much the adventure I assumed would be there. I have been very fortunate to have boys who are "throwbacks" who like playing outside and building stuff themselves, it just seemed to me that traditional scouting was a good fit for them. Somehow I got hooked along the way.

I think the rich kids will buy the latest uniform parts to show off in front of the others. I think it defeats keeping a group "uniform". I am discouraged by this...

366, It is basic management Tell the ASPL want the end result should look like. It is up to him on how to get there. Have him ask for resources after thinking about it. Remind him you are a resource for advice if needed. Let him do the work. Try not to jump in when he does completely differently than you might have. As others have said, even if messes up he will learn something and prob some skills will get taught. If you miss some surely there will be other opportunities to tidy things up. Good luck!

OK, OK I have had some perfectly horrible parents that I really encouraged to go to another Troop...

To deal with hovering parents assign jobs and remind them they do not have to stay. Some will gratefully bolt. I had mine: 1-Some were basically Assistants -one Dad for PE and games, one super Mom for scheduling, etc. really helps to have 2 adults engaging the boys. 2-I asked all to do something once for part of a meeting. If a parent knew a Biologist they arranged for a presentation. Works great if they can talk about their hobby and career. It really helps to get to know the background of the parents--they can be a diverse and tremendous resource. 3-I had some for a "mini-committee". They would be off in a corner planning a field trip, making calls, planning menus. Half the time was hanging out. (The terrible economy really helped us -- 1/3 of the Dad's were unemployed at some time so they liked having a project) When you get enough engaged parents they start to "own" the program and group dynamics will start to damper the troublemakers. I have had the occasional painful parent but most could be redirected to charge in a more productive direction.

I would weigh your commitments to the Pack carefully. I was a Webelos leader and an ASM-newbie the same year and it was very difficult. It seemed I was camping every other weekend. However I know ASM's that are on Pack Committees but those being very active seem to burn out fast. Congrats on the SM-in training. Get all the training you can. It would build up your confidence and that helps in leadership. I totally concur on needing to be seen at every campout and as many events as possible. You need to BE THERE. Boys appreciate that you take the time, regardless of your ability level, to make things possible. You get credibility. In my case it took a year but most of the older boys seem to start to accept me. I think it is that I am a regular and that some of the older Dads are dropping out (aging out, health, family, economic stress more than the program) Keep up the good work!

The entitlement issues can really impact the boys when they get into Boy Scouts and they find that they really have demonstrate that they know the requirement, not just that they did at home with Mom or Dad. Most of the boys will get up to speed but some of the parents have a bit of a shock. Just last night I told a couple of brand spanking new mid-year crossovers that "Cub Scouts is do your best but Boy Scouts is do the requirement."

Baden P I think you are correct; I am too close too things and inexperienced to see the situation clearly. At the cub scout campouts I used to get my sons to cook some of their own meals, set up their tents, etc. I was one of the only parents doing so. The boys are pretty excited the first year the T-1 program keeps them busy. Then they have to sit around a couple years until they are old enough to do the High Adventure. Then they get bored and leave. The first year we do a lot of interesting trips --canoeing, climbing, hiking, snorkeling, but it still car/base camping. That said we try to travel light and are trying to switch over to a more backpack based approach. We had some success moving toward a boy led unit but the system collapsed partially due to our size. We are now planning to switch to a mixed age Patrols and more Patrol based camping. Our experienced "outdoor guys" we had relied on have aged out, got sick, or had life get in the way. I think our Troop will need to make sure that leaders, especially less experienced ones such as myself, get in shape and get the skills they need.

As I push 50 I like what I like. Embrace the uncoolness. I like Dockers, processed food, and trashy TV. Scout is so dorky it is cool. I have many interests so I call myself a "Multi-disciplinary geek". I used to be a "cool" arty architect type. I cannot say I was any happier that way.

Sure looks like a Kelly Kettle to me....

(long Sigh) Been there. A very well organized ticket punching approach can earn a lot of beltloops. As others have said the real issue is the relationship with the ADL's. I would make a point, even a handout of what is expected to "earn" these things and remind folks that we want the boys to have fun, learn new things, and enjoy the journey. Extra belt loops will not get you into a good college. If the group is big enough consider splitting the den. As for dishonest parents, I have had "impossible awards" earned and looked folks in the eye and I know they were lying. While I tried to control the flow and tracking of awards beyond that it was hard to prevent out and out dishonesty. The boys know what is going on. I think the cost of excessive awards should be pushed on to the parents. That is what we did with the Sports and Academic pins which the Pack would not pay for. A rush of awards can bankrupt some units.

I know a few Eagles I would not want to SPL's --they just lack the interpersonal skills. I think Eagles make very good Troop guides. It all depends on the boy.

I say go with the ASPL, prep him best you can and he may surprise you. Have him lean of some of the older scouts. He can always have an occasional adult consult for advice.

Good idea.

To get back to the original issue I think too much Pack camping does affect Boy Scout first year retention. I have noticed the boys whose families are really, really into camping and hiking come with decent skills but get bored by the 3rd or 4th campout. They want to graduate into more "High Adventure" activities. I would say that Sports has picked off more good scout candidates at our Troop. During the season there just is too many practices...but that is a well worn subject. I do not recall little league or football having as many or as intense practice regimens when I was a kid...

A former Cub/Webelos leader should, at best, be a "junior" ASM the first 6 months. Boy Scouts is fundamentally different and learning the Troop culture, as well as getting trained up, is essential. Best to be assisting where you can and not trying to run things. Best would be a break but I know in my case they needed help.

pchadbo, I agree that is the best response; I do not know if he is capable of it. Maybe a video approach?

Yes many boys play when they should help set up camp; I have noticed some shocked scout newbies. I tried to get boys to always set up family tents by Bear and help other families when they are Webelos. They get to tend fire by Webelos (usually watched by parents and instructed by a Boy Scout) and by end of Webelos do the majority of the work at a Pack campout. Also by then they have done a Brownsea like program and have a better idea of what Boy Scouts is about. Usually lose one or two over that but firm up more shaky scouts.

I would hesitate putting too much effort in this area, families add on and drop out of an event with little notice. Start as simple as possible with Google Docs or Excel if you got it until the system breaks.

In Sunday School a kid between 3rd and 4th grade is called a "rising 4th grader". Is that a brevet captain? I think my old Pack would "graduate" all the boys to the next level before the school year ended. They got new neckers and pressure to come back. Therefore, a Bear became a Webelos and if interested, could work on Activity Pins. In any case I would hate to stand between a boy and progress when they may have free time during the summer.