Tampa Turtle

I think it is inappropriate. Scouting is about the boys. Boys and their families come in all (political) shapes and sizes. Just like religion. Don't want the "brand" to be associated with one side or it ends up discouraging future scouts who do not agree with you.

I guess I kinda do the don't ask don't tell thing too. Gotta an 11 year old too who is wondering if he is Gay. Great kid, likes girly stuff but seems to enjoy the "male-ness" of scouts. Hears boys saying negative things about gays and then wonders about himself. All I can do is tell him everything is going to be OK, that he is young and developing, and is OK just the way he is. And oh by the way do you know that taut-line hitch yet? Try to keep it a sex-free zone. My older son went to a youth church pool party (middle and high school age) yesterday. His first boy-girl party really. He has "a lot of issues" so this was a big deal. He noticed a high school couple making out. Some parents scowled but did not stop them. So it is not just a "gay sex" thing with youth but a "sex" thing. I am of two minds. I have had gay and bi roommates. I really didn't care; by 4th grade I KNEW I was straight and what I wanted. I figured some gay guys are the same. I always figured every gay guy was one less guy competing for the girls. I guess we just can't say "no sex on scout activities"! Some smart ass would ask "what about myself". I do not like the "conjugal married couple rule"; had some couples really going at it at a cub scout campout; don't they know those tent walls are thin. In my limited scout experience the gay scout issue (as opposed to the gay leader issue) is very volatile. Even in the conservative church based Scout groups I have been involved in the parents are wildly and passionately split on the issue. In my admittedly small sample size the (often divorced)mom's were the most vehement anti-gay. The dad's might joke but figured they knew a few in sports, scouts, school and it was no big deal. But the mom's are another story.

Since I rely on Eamonn to keep the discussion cheerful and centered it kinda bums me out. I agree do something with the kids. I find that being married with two kids the one weekend a month camping plus other meetings and events takes it's toll. I am lucky to work at a place that is both family and scouting supportive; my last job wasn't and I am sure it cost me money and advancement. Certainly seems a lot more work to plan a camping trip than it used to be. I would like BSA to be much more outdoor oriented.

Bummer, I always thought their badge sashes looked cool. Like the leader red shirts-looks like a lumberjack.

OGE, You were in Tampa? They let you in? I am going to have to have another talk with security. I actually live near downtown Tampa but go to Pinellas fairly frequently. We do a lot of aquatics since we live here. Do our conditioning hikes on the soft sand at the beach which has the added benefits of girls waving to the boys. I like the idea of teaching the boys some basic maintenance of new materials. At least a few boys are learning to sew so my faith in mankind is restored a tiny bit. So much stuff that is repairable is treated as disposable; it bothers me the waste.

I like to add jobs, education (like any special degrees), hobbies. I keep it really short and friendly-like. A lot of people forget that they have a whole lot more experience than they think. I found that wives will sometimes volunteer a husband the grandfather. Sometimes it is good to mention planned activities (the dreaded Tigers "Visit a television station, radio station, or newspaper office. Find out how people there communicate with others. " that became hard around here after 9-11". Sometimes you find out the dad that never shows up is because he is the weatherman at the local TV station and can get you in. I have found once you get a few folks helping with the stuff that they know, have contacts, or feel confident with more families will help.

DK I agree that you have to teach the modern techniques as well. I like boys to make, if possible, their own gear to be thrifty and learn about what they are using. If you rigging an ultralight tarp those knots come in handy. We have had some good new-school vs old-school debates with the boys and encourage them to figure the stuff out on their own. I have one old-school son and one who has to have the latest innovation. I think the traditional skills, partially because they are different and a tad exotic, encourage a bit more creativity and a deeper understanding of how things work. That breeds more Independence. A cord-lock does what a taut-line hitch does and is easier to adjust. Bungee cords are nice but seem to abrade faster. What should you do if the bungee breaks or you not have enough. Etc, etc. I have seen guys go at both sides of the continuum. Traditional guys that start using more modern techniques and equipment because it is easier and more practical. Modern guys that back into learning "the basics" because they have realized on some trip that they were not nearly as prepared as they thought, say when the stove stopped working or the canister was empty. So I do not think it is an either/or. However all organizations have their cultures and prices of admission. And even if for no other reason the Traditional Skills are that for scouting.

I agree start saying "when you are a boy scout" and start doing more adventurous activities. I had 3 of 9 that did not cross over last time. Two were the moms was not ready for them to be "on their own". One hated the outdoors, we hike in a city park on a paved trail and he found the plants and animals quite appalling. He played Hockey instead (yes Tampa has rinks). All 9 boys got AOL. I think of all the Webes in the former Pack 90%+ get the AOL. The inflation of the "honor" of the AOl --and yes parents think it is like the Eagle--screams ending point. There is a lot of burn out by the end of Webes, especially the leaders and some of the boys. Really, really need for them to do 3 or 4 Boy Scout activities to wet the appetite. We have had some luck in planting the suggestion (not to hard as some mom's are skittish about turning over there boys)about how great it is to "get rid" of the boys for a weekend every month. How some couples have turned that into time for date night or girls night out. Works with some folks. Also the idea that they need to learn to do somethings on their own in a safe controlled environment.

OGE glad you are back, I am having a bad morning so I will try to be Cheerful --it is not a natural state for me. Talked with a former Bear co-leader of mine last night. One of "our boys" her son dropped out of scouts (her other son got his Eagle). I talked to the boy. He did not like the outdoors stuff, the camping, etc. Found it too challenging. Preferred baseball which he is good at. Fair enough he is passionate about something and wants to do it. As we have said their is a lot of competition. There is no way this kid is ever to go pro; he is good but not great. So are the baseball skills not practical? In contrast, later that night my two boys insisted on me getting them up to (try Unsuccessfully) to see the Perseid meteor shower. We had time to talk, I mentioned their friend and we talked about scouts. They are excited about our new SM's ambitious schedule (I am working on the calendar so the they got a peak). I asked what was it they liked most about scouting: 1-Camping, fire, knives, cooking, making stuff.(the Outdoor Program) 2-Going on adventures, Canoeing, sailing, learning 1st Aid. 3-Uniforms. (Surprising) 4-Hanging out with the boys before the meeting (game time) 5-Daddy time. 6-Being in charge (they both are chomping for leadership) Sports can accomplish some of that. Uniforms, yes. Fun with boys, yes. Daddy time, if I was a coach, yes. They value the traditional outdoor program the most. To do that, I would argue as others have here, it is best to learn and keep up the traditional outdoor skills. Like my young friend in baseball, this does not appeal to all boys. BUT my watering down the traditional program we make Scouts boring for those who are attracted to the traditional program. That is our market segment. My boys pour over the old manuals and boys life magazines. We sell them an image of adventure and we had better deliver.

We had a number of card games going (poker, black jack). No money exchanged, though.

"Be Prepared" said BP "Prepared for what?" They asked. "Why...for anything!" He replied. "er...sorry we only practiced those modern skills we thought relevant".

Did you ask them?

Buffalo, I know one of our adults said he was wearing a fleece outfit inside a (pretty good) 20 degree mummy bag and said he was cold on 2 night 2 weeks ago at a high elevation.

Some of our guys just came back from there. They said the tents were provided and very welcome as the temps hit around 30 once or twice at night.

Craftgasm, indeed. Very cool. Could be perfect for a Boy Scout project, too.

Good luck! I am a bit jealous. Starts up can be fun. It would be nice to have a small Troop. My recommendations: get SM and MBC training and keep it fun. Be patient: boys work at their own speed. In a couple years you and the boys will take great pride in being "founders".

I was in a very organized and active Pack and I was not aware our Council even had a resident camp for cubs (which it did) much less what a resident camp was until I was well through the program. I would concur with the previous suggestions: (1) Whip up enthusiasm on camping in general. (2) Create awareness of this great thing Resident Camping Does the resident camp provide food, fun, and housing? While there are costs their will be some parents who will be attracted to camping without the hassle. Explain the pros and cons. Don't expect everyone to want to go. When I was in cubs some times I had money but cash was short other times I had money but not much time. A big hook for cub age parents is spending times with their kids and having a *special experience*. To that extent they will spend a lot of money and effort on an activity (Disney, Museums, etc) if they think it is worth it. Also, in my experience there is a big gulf in camping experience in younger parents. Some are really into outdoors but a lot are not and lack confidence.

Lashings are a tough sell? Why our Pioneering camp out is one of the most popular ones we have. The older boys made towers and gateways and (unauthorized) catapults. They made rope (well I screwed that one up so they instead had a lesson in adversity and had to redo later). The log drag with the timber hitch was very, very popular. One boy said "It is amazing what you can do with some big sticks and rope". A Scout is Honest. The boys hated splicing. But we told some of them -- you want go to Seabase you gotta know your knots.

I have used Altoid tins for survival kits, sewing kits, and making speakers (look it up on Instructables.com) Best sewing kit container I have is from a 1950's stainless steel water tight made in USA tube that was from Lydia Pinkham's Pills. Wish my MIL had saved a bunch. To think that used to be a disposable! (I guess thats why she saved it) Fun discussion though I wished I'd used MM containers!

I wouldn't do the special recognition. The leaders son frequently advances at a good clip because of good attendance. Sometimes they are not the best behaved boys around their parents (imagine that!). A lot of the other kids suspect that the leader's kids get preferential treatment anyway so I wouldn't reinforce it.

A Scout is Kind. Did we forget that? If I was called into a 5 on 1 meeting at work or church over a smart-a$$ remark I made to someone making a smart-a$$ remark to me I would feel a bit prosecuted. It would feel like a star chamber. I don't care how "nice" anyone acted, heck for BOR we only have 3 and you are allowed to bring someone along for moral support! Good chance that even a straight boy would be so mortified that he might leave Scouts forever. Probably keep any family members out to. Anyway if a guy is bisexual does that mean he is 1/2 in and 1/2 out of Scouting? Can he only go to 1/2 the camp-outs or has to stop at 1st Class. I hear so many boys, and I am sure I am not the only ASM around, that has heard boys catcalling, calling each other gay, pretending to be gay, etc, etc that it would be ridiculous to interrogate each and every time someone said something in jest at camp. 5year, you should be proud of your son he did live up to A Scout is Brave and A Scout in Honest.

Dan, I beg to differ with you, esteemed colleague. As a person who started with all the "modern equipment" in cubs and has moved on to Hammock camping and backpacking in Scouts I find these "old fashioned skills" quite handy, light-weight, and versatile in many situations. I use the 2 half hitch and taut-line hitch quite frequently to rig the hammock, hang gear, and rain fly. So does my boy. I have used the tautline hitch in tying down gear at home prior to a storm. Very handy. Hurricane Charlie came through in 2004 we had no power for 10 days. Wish I knew a few alternate ways to start a fire then, matches were no good and lighter wore out. Had plenty of charcoal but could not light it. Wife giving me the "you are not much of a man" look the whole time. Yes, there were 3 pizza places within a 10 minute walk operating (tip: use gas ovens, usually doing a booming business after a storm) but I was dependent on them and pizza got old quick.

Mini-MM tubes are slightly larger than a diameter of a nickel, I think. I agree the eating will be popular (step 1: eat MM's) and since they are a little longer they may store some other things better. May not work as a necker thingie (to get technical). When I did the mini-first aid kits in the dying days of the easy of find film canisters it was VERY popular. A couple boys made sure to bring it to the first camp-out. Make sure you get some red tape (I used electrical) so they could make the cross--that was a big hit. I recall this was the same meeting (Tigers) we introduced the compass (amazing! One boy yelled "Is north always that way!") and the great round the block night hike.

Give them the need to use it indeed. I heard our SM say that dining fly's will be part of the allocated stock of Patrol equipment. I like the idea primarily because it will force them to erect a dining fly on campouts using their knots and give us an excuse to have competitions at meetings.

Ask around if anybody is a Diabetic and has test strip containers. They are similar in size to film canisters but with a hinged top and are a heavier plastic. I keep mine and they accumulate fast. Also ask your local pharmacy if they have any extra small pill bottles, I have gotten some stuff there as well.