Tampa Turtle

(1) BSA National has made the announcement and cannot go back. (2) BSA has announced a "Separate but Equal' policy. (3) A few will try "Separate but Equal", some will ignore it and go "co-ed", and most will lack the manpower to pull it off. (4) Some units who try to stay "Boy Only" will face a PR disaster when some girl gets turned away. Only if a religious based National C.O. backs them up will this be tenable. (5) National will have no choice but to "relax" the policy on separate units. It is only a temporary tactic. (6) None of this will change the fundamental problems (program, culture, program, finances) BSA is facing. In fact it is a distraction.

That is what Scout Son #2 who is pretty wise in these matters thinks BSA is on the brink of disaster--not because of the girls (he really doesn't care except it will drive 2/3rd of his patrol away or that is what they say) he thinks it is the erosion of the traditional youth-led patrol method that is getting watered down by parents and BSA lets things like Merit Badge Academies turn scouting into an Eagle race. (He said some of those are nice guys but all they care about is their individual goal not the patrols) He said it is the old time old school 'real' scouters that made his experience worthwhile and too many of them have quietly announced they are leaving because of the policy change. These are exactly the people needed to push against the parents who want to take it from the boys. I think he is having regrets from seeing the Troop that he has put so much work in degenerate so quickly. He is still helping out though he aged out.

Yes like there will be parallel Troops.

It's expensive but so are things that National runs like Philmont, Jambo, Seabase. We did the Yorktown at Patriots Points and it was $175 a kid. Transportation costs are the killer. But then Disney is only 90 minutes away for us.

I will amend: "No one People too lazy to use Google seems to do know where it came from."

No one seems to do know where it came from.

We need a new term for the two separate but equal Troops with the same leadership-- are Troops that ignore the BSA guidance "Rosa Parks" Troops? Are you going to be doing the same meeting time? Will the "ghost girl" Troop have its own SPL, etc --that will speed up that POR requirements! Or will the boys and girls just rotate in and out of the meetings? Extra Committee meetings but sharing the same equipment? What happens when Troop 50(male) wants to go with propane lanterns and Troop 50(female) wants solar powered? I can see a female Troop doing better with shared tents than a male Troop with their own. What happens when some boys forget their tent and 'borrow' a shared tent from the girls side of the Scout Hut? What happens when both "Troops" camp at the same location and Troop 50(male) SPL and ASPL is absent because of a big game and instead of going to the senior most PL everyone defers to the Troop(female) SPL who did show up? What if one or the boys refuses to listen to her?...is he being insubordinate or following his chain of command? Anyone who had camped with a "fellow" Troop or a merged Troop at a Camp-o-ree has seen some of those issues (usually things sink to the lowest common denominator). I am coming around the opinion shared by some on this board that (and completely aside from the issue of Girls in Boy Scouting is a good or bad idea) that National has painted themselves into a corner again...folks wanting full-gendered integration will be very unhappy with any separate but equal policy and push hard to end it quickly. Traditionalists that thought they had room to maintain a Boys Only unit will feel betrayed when National and their CO's cave or they stick to their guns and find themselves isolated and surrounded on social media? I suspect a lot will just withdraw until the dust clears and then drift away.

My concern about the reality not matching is when we parrot the BSA company line about being separate and not 'co-ed' Troops BUT what happens (because of either policy change, wink-wink on paper units, or the exhaustion of leaders) is when we get 'co-ed' Troops WE will face the significant loss of trust. Some of the boys sitting in a "Life to Eagle" session recently I doubt they will finish before 2019 hits. They will have to make their decisions then....

Our boys have really clammed up on this but I have seen a big, big push on boys getting Star and Life and straining about wrapping up Eagle and bailing out by December of this year. About 3x the normal activity. Some of the adults are concerned that this will rip out much of the leader and upcoming leader class out of the Troop.

Riddle me this CSE Surbaugh: "What's fast, wood, and powered by gravity?" Answer: A Girl Scout Girls Fast Track Race! This is the kind of STEM (or is it STEAM or STEEM or STEAMER) activity that BSA should have started like in the 1950's or something. Why can't our boys (or girls now) carve blocks of wood and race them? Why can't OUR kids learn science while having fun? The gloves are off...start selling Boy Scout Cookies...just make sure they are marketed correctly (Boy Scout Cookies "Macho Mocha Mints with extra Transfats! Nothing-but-Gluten Do-see-don'ts, Bacon wrapped lardettos!"

I dunna know get 2 Scots in a room and get 3 opinions. Maybe sponsored by Iron-Bru. It's made from girders you know.

THIS is why Girl Scouts is MORE awesome than Cub Scouts! Why can't BSA get their act together so we can try an activity like this? ENRAGED! http://blog.girlscouts.org/2018/01/girls-start-your-engines-day-at-ford.html

For whatever reason the families I had in the Tiger-Wolf ages had a lot of separation/divorce drama (I have seen it again about Webelos II-Scout transition) for reasons I have no idea. So I think there is a valuable role to play as that steady adult influence where things are changing. If you have one of those scouts try to see if they need a little extra support especially around pinewood derby time. YMMV

On Scout Sunday our pastor gave us a big shout out and approval and then said how we are now accepting girls! So I guess we are...

I married a Girl Scout. Dang, they sure trained them hard on sweeping camp sites and using "sit-upons".

We reuse electrons from the first virtual campfire in 1991 when we still called it the World Wide Web.

So that is my problem. That and I refuse to say "White Rabbit, White Rabbit, White Rabbit" to keep the smoke away.

Scout Sunday good turn out. Both sons (18, 19) showed up in uniform as well. One of their old ASM's said we should call them "Cling-ons" and they could use a Klingon design for a patrol patch. I wish BSA would have a better option for 18-21 who want to stay in Scouting other than venturing. Not a lot but they can use the numbers.

I heard President Trump is going to tweet monday that the new BSA Skort factory will be based in a brand new factory in Mt. Hope, West Virginia employing over 500 former coal miners. BSA Chief Scout Executive Michael B. Surbaugh is expected to announce that the new 100% american made Skorts will be available first in the $100 million Scout Store USA following the consolidating of all other council scout stores to a location somewhere in Wright County, Missouri the approximate center of the U.S. population. The new skorts will retail for $159 a pair and offer a lifetime guarantee making them an exceptional value.

Aw, shucks.:)

I use to teach but stopped when it became too much of a drag. What I like about Scouts is, if you do it right, you can do most of the fun part of teaching. Merit Badges can be a hassle but teaching one part of one with somebody or just bringing a speaker is a big help. I'd say just giving promotional materials via your son is not likely to be successful and I have seen hundreds of boys. Nothing wrong with promoting local programs. Our Troop has recurring relationships on education and service projects with the local Keep Tampa Bay Beautiful and the local Estuary program. Those folks work with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts all the time. It's just that the adult leaders working with the kids are so swamped with the meeting preparation and working with individual personalities that it is hard to get there heads above water to do the simple work to make those connections. So that kind of thing is appreciated. And you kinda kill too birds with one stone.

There is the other side: 1) You have a boy (girl) in scouts. 2) You slowly get sucked into the myth and re-discover your inner boy. 3) Some old scouters or real boy scouts teach you some skills, you get just enough 'official' training to stay our of trouble. 4) You deliver the best program you can, make friends, and gain 100 unofficial nephews. Some inspire you, most are memorable, and a few break your heart. 6) You ignore national unless you hang around the forum or there is a press release. Look the whole world seems to be falling apart, some of us on the front lines are trying to keep the faith in our little corner. Because when you get down to it all real life us local. BSA might implode (and that is what we are mostly griping about here) but Scouting will one way or another will continue. (You know that would sound a whole lot better if Tom Hanks or Jimmy Stewart was saying it.)

I'd just pick out an easy area that overlaps with something you are doing anyway and offer that once in a while. Gives you some cover and isn't much of a commitment. I know a few parents whose main contribution was wheeling and dealing to hook us up for field trips; they didn't actually ever go camping or meetings much.

Oh I have been on the other side of that conference! I've had some pretty mad Scout parents too. One of my hats as a government person is permit review. No one likes to be regulated. I have to sometimes disapprove permits, I've had personal threats, calls from lawyers, etc. While I try hard to be a helpful public servant I have a thicker skin now too.

OK K I'll buy that. If I was offensive I apologize. No more kids. I got one ready to launch and another one moving into position once the deck clears. I think you'd learn more by visiting actual units...and I mean the plural. They are so different. Or read the manual. Some groups like church or scouts will make an unlimited demand on your time if you let them. So I get that.