Tampa Turtle

This thread has not been much help. We have POR descriptions that say "attend 75% of meetings and Troop activities" and then do not take attendance. Older boys skip a lot and magically show up at 17 and 9 months to get help on their Eagle Project from boys that hardly know 'em. I think the example of the sports team/clubs is a good one. Boy miss a practice without an excuse you can be off the team for "letting your team mates down" but what does that say about Patrols? You bet the younger guys notice the hypocrisy. As for POR's I try to see that IF they miss meetings they still need to make sure their duties get done...

Yes there appears to be a female drop off toward the end of cubbing (to use an old term) and Boy scouts. I have talked about it with some of my ex-fellow lady DL's (retired). Here is what I got: 1- They are tired. They are mom's (working or at home) and always really busy. It is great if the dad'd take over. The dads need to do more anyway. A number of AWOL cub dads jump into Boy Scout activity. 2- A lot of moms are not outdoorsy or mostly car campers/cabin campers. They were comfortable with crafts, field trips, and class-room type activities; not so much with knives and fires. 3- Positive male role models. Scouts is part of the "masculine process" and it is easier with all or mostly male leadership. I can help the Troop by doing a MB. I have heard this from several outdoorsy mom's who would like to go but limit their participation. 4- Male/Female complications. A number of wifes have expressed discomfort at other woman spending long weekends around their husband while they stay home. I think a number of woman have picked up that vibe. 5- After the first year they start enjoying that weekend a month away from the boys... For all that the SM's and ASM's tried to recruit a number of lady "brown-shirts" but the (outstanding)candidates declined.

Our jewish scouts only keep kosher if Bacon is kosher...us goyim seem more concerned then they. Our Moslems keep Halel but usually bring along a meal or two themselves as "backup" and help have some appropriate choices. It is a good thing when the boys work it out...

Maybe so but the supreme court building seemed pretty vulnerable to attack. Not like a lot of the other Federal buildings. Also they had a bomb threat that day. Security Guard said it happens all the time.

-Because leaders have not been trained. -Adult leaders were never scouts. -Adult leaders, who either missed scouts or want to re-live their scout days, want to be man-scouts. -(Some) Adult Leaders are tin-plated dictators with a god/messiah complex.

I saw arrests at the Supreme Court while my family was visiting. Pro-Life group waited for TV cameras stepped off sidewalk and was promptly arrested. Stay on the sidewalk and you can pray all you want... By the way if you visit the Supreme Court the cafeteria is pretty good--reasonably priced and apparently the "Supremes" do not like anyone else messing with their BLT's or soup. Pelosi screwed up the congressional cafeterias...

Venividi, Well we load em up from the HUT to the trailer. But I have seen some very successful campouts with just 2-3 guys in a patrol. There really isn't that much work with that many guys and they usually bond better. The ad-hoc seems to get muddled as to who was bringing what and sometimes there is some intra-patrol tension.

We have unannounced food competitions among patrols on campouts. The menu complexity, variety, and ambitiousness has really gone up. Also the ASM's keep getting samples all the time for judging.

I find some of the boys just eat up the hands-on badges. Other boys look on in horror and complain. If nothing else I told one recently "now you know you better get a good job to pay the plumber". Even if you never weld again knowing how it works can benefit you. Lets say you have a home project and you realize you need a piece welded. At least you know what the question is.

Great discussion. Great point on ad-hoc patrols. If you think of it it is usually because an adult doesn't want to haul another patrol box or something for a 2 or 3 guys. They almost never work or are fun. I suppose it might be different if the boys came up with the idea themselves.

Andy Williams --ARGGHH--you make me feel old just remembering who he is. I remember watching those specials with my Grandparents. Was Nixon president? Boy he milked "Moon River" amazingly long. Was quite the crooner. My grandpa would make me listen to his 1930's-1950's collection of 78's. Sinatra, Crosby, etc. All the old folks would come over and sing along to Mitch Miller and Spike Jones records. My job was to change the record. I will admit I love show tunes. I wish the Clash had put out a Christmas album.

I think a Hammock is a good idea too. I may wait a year for that. I got it! The books "101 backpack recipes for shovel, spade, and axe".

Engineer, There REALLY will be a Welding MB. I think in the next couple months. Manly good fun.

(1) Lord of the Flys. The little savages will burn the place down if we let them. (2) Safety. They need constant supervision or there will be a TERRIBLE incident which leads us to... (3) Liability. We will all be sued when a boy dies because we let them do things on their own. (4)Kids today are spoiled. They can barely go to the bathroom without adult supervision. (5) We tried it and it didn't work. (6) We tried and the parents complained that the meetings were too noisy, advancements not getting done... (7) Come on it has NEVER been boy-led. The adults manipulate the boys in whatever direction they want. (8) Boys don't have the time these days. Maybe that worked in the past but today boys are too busy to participate and lead too. (9) The Troop method is easier and more efficient.

Andy Rooney, There is an opening. Of course he wrote his own material; I am sure it took more than 3 minutes.

Funny many of the rich kids in our Troop eat a lot of the same fast food as Mom totes them from activity to activity. My wife cooks dinner and we all eat at home together so I guess we are throwbacks.

Parents may be living with Grandparents as part of economic conditions; that is the parents may still be intact and living with Grandmas since she still has a house. Of course I have met a number of poor grandparents raising their grandkids cause Mom is strung out or in prison. They are darn well not gonna lose another one and will (literally)work themselves to death for that kid. I am not saying that the status of the american family is not worse than it was at one time just that while it is bad it is not a total disaster either.

My kids are in a Florida public school and have prayed, out loud, before class and in the cafeteria with no repercussions. I have taught them they have a right to freedom of religious expression but so does everyone else and the need to be polite and respectful in a civil society. I told them we subscribe to the Gandi saying "I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any. (It is also quoted in the more recent Catholic Catechism) The kids they go to school with are a real mix and they have had some interesting discussions. We have only had one problem with a teacher and had to explain the difference between establishment of a state religion and freedom of expression.

We have some boys that will only eat junk food and will bring their own food (bag after bag of Doritos, candy bars, etc) We generally squash that for the following reasons: (1) The boy needs to be in the menu planning and we eat as a patrol (2) It is unhealthy for outdoor activity (3) and it creates LOTS of problems with boys wanting to "raid" the junkfood tent. I used to think the boys were pulling a fast one on us but the parents usually supported the boy! I always remind the grubmaster that we have "the grubmasters prerogative" The grubmaster may purchase one reasonably priced "luxury item" for the patrol at his choosing. It usually is a small jar of Nutella or some Sardines. One time canned squid --the things boys will eat at a campout. Other time Rooster sauce.

Thanks E61! I guess I could have done--I was lazy. Recently a Patrol was arguing over what to plan for lunch on a canoe trip. Sandwiches were decided --Ham and Cheese. One boy --a newbie who rarely came (and actually did go either) insisted "No cheese! It is one of the foods my parent never make me eat! Then the flood of special orders came in and it went back to Ham and Cheese. The boy was very unhappy; I reminded him that he could open the sandwich up, remove the offending piece, and resume eating. We had one, well-coddled, patrol where the boys were in a circle on the ground planning the trip menu. Around them were 4 parents interjecting "Tommy doesn't like peanut butter, Billy only eats ruffled chips, etc..." We had to tell them to give them space. We rarely have a boy who has a real food allergy issue or religious restriction but if so we accommodate it. In some cases we had a boy who was Diabetic and he brought his own food since he managed his diet in a very restrictive manner.

We (our Troop) celebrate as our charter org is a Methodist Church as are 60% of the families. Also many Catholics and a smattering of jews, moslems, and hindus. All are welcome to share their traditions --usually in the form of food. We ASM's work hard to keep things welcoming and ecumenical but not to the point of doing a generic "holiday" party. I grew up in a neighborhood where we were the only christian family. A lot of it is the spirit of how things are offered. If I was invited to a Passover Seder I treated it as a honor and opportunity to learn about the connection between our faiths. I would do things different for cubbies as we met in a public school, parents seemed more sensitive, and families were much more diverse. By Boy Scouting families learn more about the reverent part and we ASM's do a lot of work teaching respect for other faiths while staying true to your own.

I would recommend spinning off picky eaters as a topic.

Beavah, If nothing else it tires em out.

Eagle92, A few good ideas here guys! I may wrap some duct tape for the stockings. Did that with the staff; I highly recommend it. Of course I am the only one who carries a staff! (I told your parents I wouldn't touch ya; I never said anything about a stick!) It is the great Webelos project and once you make one you may get the bug. Son 1, the would be military guy, is getting an array of surplus military stuff. Not my choice but that is what he wants. He will have a mix of US, brit, swiss, austrian, swedish, and czech stuff. (Jacket,Long UW, Wool Socks, ALICE and harness, etc.) He already does the hammock thing. Son 2, is the problem. He has more of a backpacker type of mindset. Has the lightweight tent and backpack. Has most of the basic gear. This year he is getting the canister stove and pot, nalgene, and fire steel. He has a new Nook that he likes to read and we are encouraging that. He did enjoy the Hatchet series of novels. They both have a growing knife/tool/flashlight collection and have lost many of the same. Ideas I liked (that they don't have) -For rope, what kind? Paracord? How much? -Duct Tape. -Water Purifier (though we rarely use them) -Survival Blanket (Can never have too many and it is so hard to repack) -Dehydrated desserts. (For anyone else MRE's are always a big hit if you can get the real deal) -Oh! Maybe a backpacking recipe book? He likes to cook. Yes it will be a very-scouty/camping Christmas.

I need to get some gifts for my boy scout sons... (1) Does anyone know of any good scout e-books for the Nook? (2) My boys have bags, packs, lights, etc. What else might be good?