Tampa Turtle

My friend Dave coerced me to go stag to the Polish-American Club dance with him. Some famous Polka bands were playing. I was 17 and we were the only males under 60 in the place. I was a very popular dance partner with the older ladies. Food was good. They were in a good mood as Playboy had a Polish-American Playmate that month. Was a little awkward being shown a centerfold by a little old lady. I was Irish/Portuguese so it was a different cultural experience. I was Catholic so I was good enough.

What a small world! Bob Kuechenberg was the Godfather of a good friend of mine (David Z the crazy Polish guy) and went to my church so I saw him a good deal. He lived about 5 blocks from me. Yepremian was always a popular local. I think he sold shoes in the off season. I had a Griese autographed football. He always struck me as uneasy with the fame. Shame about his wife.

That is how we (are trying) to do it. More and more backpacking and less and less car camping. Meeting some resistance. Took me almost a year to get into shape for the longer ones; but a nice side benefit for scouters. A few "parlor" boys resist and do not see the need to walk anywhere. Kinda sad. I usually tell them on 9/11 thousands of New Yorkers walked 10 or 15 miles home after transport shut down; could they?

Grew up a Dolphins fan and got to enjoy the back to back Superbowls and perfect seasons. In those days most players were part-timers and had off-season jobs. You saw them around town especially in Broward. Met Yepremian, Morrall, Jim Kiick, Larry Csonka, Bob Kuechenberg, Nick Buonticonti, Mercury Morris, etc over the years. Griese not so much I think he lived in Dade. Got in a fight with the Shula boys. They were middle-class guys getting paid to play football not so many prima-donnas. Still remember singing the Dolphins fight song and seeing Yepremians "pass" and thinking "oh no we are going to blow it!". People forget Dolphins won ugly a lot. Moved to Tampa in '83 and became a Bucs fan almost every game is an exercise in humiliation. Will say this Tony Dungy is the real deal...just a real nice family man and christian. When he was our coach you could be real proud of the players...even got Sapp to behave for a while.

"Belts and Braces" look that one. I have always been a belt and suspender man myself. For medical reasons I am longer allowed to drink though I sure could use a scotch after a day with some of our scouts. BSA policy aside I think it is a really bad idea to drink around scouts and NEVER at a campout. I have been in Troops and Packs that have allowed it on the sly and there were some dangerous practices with the boys (Tigers IN the fire, Wolfs throwing axes) tolerated by the tipsy leaders who were having a good time. (I had to be the fun policy). Mainly I have noticed that the occasional sipping of "the boy scout juice" is that imbiber tends to speak much louder and tells neighborhood gossip ("Tommy's mom is sleeping with Timmy's Dad --did you hear?"), profanity, and ribald humor all of which the boys can hear. I have been to adults only planning meeting or thank you dinners where there was booze and I was not that bothered by it beyond getting folks home safely.

Looking in from the outside it all looks a little silly. Now give me back my knots!

As an ASM once you voice your positions you back up the SM's call --which is a pretty good one. It is a good lesson for the boy that appearances matter no matter what you think and their are consequences. Gee we all have screwed up. When I worked at the University there was a dean who would never hire someone with prison-wanabe tattoos. Fair? Probably not. But it was a consequence of what he considered to be bad judgement in one area or life that may spill into another (work).

I hate the serrated edges to. Occasionally they are handy for cutting rope a little faster. I always look at them as something that if one accidentally cuts themselves will make a jagged wound. I have yet to go to the trouble of sharpening one. My older boy wanted a KA-BAR or a SAS type stilletto and I had to say no. Knives are handy tools but some are made for killing people. Who are you planning to kill on this trip?

I remember the expression "you hike your own hike" or something like that. I agree give him some gentle advice, point him to any good guides or websites, and let him find out of his own. (I rarely intervene on my boys hiking except for water, 1st aid, etc) My younger son packed his pack and wore it on the walk last night. Already he is taking "essential" things he thought he needed out after only a one hour walk. Like a heavy dry box instead of lightweight dry bags. Adjusting the load, re-appraising his sneakers. He is taking it really seriously. I gave him some advice when he came up to me and asked instead of pontificating. Trevorum gave good advice.

Hey SMT thats what my boys got! (They already got MW3 for b-day)

Have him experiment -walking stick or no walking stick. Opinions vary...I really need mine. 2nd on breaking in the footwear. He'll have a better idea on what he needs after a while.

qwazse I like your approach. You want to back your SPL so the boys know you wont sell them out when it gets tough. It is definitely a teachable moment. I agree about the 13+ boys. The younger ones are probably more rigid rule followers. I would still expect some parental fall out. I had a catholic priest friend...he would make a sailor blush.

My son was almost blinded by a C-cell battery. Tried to open one up to see how it worked. Turns out it was under pressure. Same boy had 12 stiches from falling on a 3 wheeled walker used by his Grandma. Hardly dangerous objects those. Stuff happens. On second thought --why did I give him a knife! :0

Can the SPL just do a Mea Culpa and be done with it? Yeah, from the little I've heard, it seems un-SPL ish but I have been around scouts (from Bears and up) who didn't know I was in earshot. Much more intensive language and subject matter from most (but not all boys) than I ever recall. Heavy duty stuff even if they got the facts a bit messed up. Also some real nasty racist stuff...little angels. This is the bad side of the Norman Rockwell squeaky clean image, parents EXPECT better if their boy is in scouts...even if they swear and let him watch R rated movies and uncensored internet. The unofficial Troop Chaplin thing makes him look worse. We had a similar incident with the church youth directors son. It happens.

I agree it gets tiresome, folks talk past each other, and it really doesn't sound like a dialogue that will get anywhere. I'd just be happy with a a little more civility in the discussion. I will admit I can suckered in pretty easy. Some of the non-issue discussion have gotten snarky as well at times. And that is a shame as I think the forum is a useful support system on delivering a good program. It has helped our Troop.

Am in same boat. Younger son (12) is starting up hiking and backpacking now. With the cooler weather down south it is a better time. He needs to build up his stamina and back strength. Older son (13) was born to hump a pack for 20 miles but the younger one is built like a reed and is a sprinter. I am no expert and am a year into it myself... I assume he has to carry water? That is a BIG weight. My sons have done some conditioning hikes for 5-7 miles on Beach sands with light loads (water mostly), stop for lunch, and go back. We also start carrying our backpacks for the daily dog walks as well, to the mortification of my wife. I have found the best way to train is with the packs. It changes your center of gravity and makes you realize that stabilizing your ankles is a good thing. Also, if he is going to combine backpacking with the hiking, you get religion about hauling unnecessary stuff real fast after the first several miles. It is a lot harder to walk while carrying stuff. Makes a regular hike with a light day-bag a joy afterward. As for myself I start doing a lot of little things. Park in the far lot and walk in. Take the bus more to work and get of a couple stops early. Walk the dog early. Work in more walking. The right shoes are critical as are the correct socks. I think the Scout Thorlo (sp?) socks are pretty good for the price. Teach him to examine his feat. Our boys carry Goldbond, Moleskins, etc even for short hikes. We do mandatory foot inspections as well. Some folks mix up some weight training with the walking.

True but we should also follow rules of decorum, as Scouter Terry wrote "be Scout-like." I was merely making a suggestion. However you are correct.

On that date I was wondering if I would get fed stewed carrots or stewed prunes.

Yes it is easy for something online or an email to explode out of proportion. Been there, have the scars. Really this is under the label of consequences. If the SPL teases the younger boys or lets them get bullied - he loses the respect of the younger boys. He will have to work that much harder to get it back. Same here, except he loses respect of adults. Better to learn it now. Hopefully the reaction from other adults will be manageable. As for the language, it seems like most of the boys do it. You need to stomp on it when you are around. Sadly the parents are much of the problem as well. In my case my son has Tourettes and I am amazed at how well he can swear under stress. It has *ahem* created a few difficult situations.

drmbear, Excellent idea! Get them out of the "classroom". I had a college professor who would, during boring bits where he was reading to us, would take us outside to sit on the grass or cook hotdogs or something. I have done Forrester three or four times...gotta do it in the woods so you can point to the parts of the tree, etc.

This the point around the campfire where talk of Dutch Ovens begins, the use of parchment paper, and what we will cook for breakfast. Maybe fishing or knives or funny things we overheard that the boys said.

My wife was taken aback this Christmas morning when at gift opening time me and my 2 boys all whipped out are knives. It looked like a knife fight. I used to always carry a pen knife and used it everyday. But I come in and out of government buildings at work and they threaten to confiscate them...I even had my P38 can opener taken away at a County Commission meeting. To get back to SMT224 I do not think it is out of line. She probably would pull her kid out for something else...she may be over-protective or he may be immature. Maybe she is right and he is a real danger and needs help...in which case the change in priorities may not be scout. Fire and Knives. We do those things in scouts; yes it may "feed the fire" (no pun intended) of future miscreants but once discovered provides an opportunity for education and redirection. A real firebug should be directed to the local Fire Department education program. I was a bit flip but I do take that seriously. All of us probably have been badly cut with our first knives--who wants that for their children? In 6 grade one of my classmates started a fire across the street with a borrowed can of gasoline; several kids were badly burned. To step back if it really bothers a person a compass or bottle is cool. I know my sons are fond of things given by leaders. Basement, thanks for the wrench link. I had no idea there were that many kinds of wrenches! Talk about evolutionary niches. Anybody read Henry Petroski? He wrote the cult book "The Pencil" and "The Development of Ordinary Things". Kinda like a Stephen Jay Gould of forks, pencils, and paper clip evolution.

While I loved Calvin when it was being written and my 13 year old has rediscovered them --he was a miserable little bugger.

Despite what some adults think what the boys I encounter want is an active outdoor program --for which they tolerate the other parts. Some are motivated by getting the Eagle and racking up Merit Badges--but the most active of our boys want the adventure. The heavier the pack and more miserable the slog the better. Where we start to experience drops outs is when we start doing do many MB-themed car camping "working" trips. I dub these "MB academy in the woods".

SS Water Bottles are nice. I was pushing in a bit with the Webes but I would argue that Knives and Fire Steels should be OK (with parents permission)because a Boy Scout should get his Totin and Fire'm Chits pretty quick and should know how to use them.