Tampa Turtle

That ziplock story...it just makes you proud LOL. In this country we always like shiny new stuff and hate to pay to repair and maintain the stuff we got (see: Nationa; Infrastructure). It is a lot easier to raise money for a new climbing tower than get new plumbing in the camp restrooms though the tower will be used a lot less! So we get stuff creep. Then camps start competing against each other--see the ads in the back of Scouting and Boys Life. For summer camp I think it can be kinda cool to have access to a bunch of stuff that you normally can't do and cubs --with all those mom's, dad's, and tagalongs seem to need "nicer" facilities. But Boy Scouts seem to like the quasi-decrepit camp if it means they can run around more. Maybe I am wrong. Seems like in our Troop we get two kinds of scouts--the kind who really like a swank camp with really nice facilities and the minority who are happy to poop in the bag as long as they are having an outdoor adventure.

If it was a boy-led issue and a boy approached the ASM over his stand I suspect he probably would go ahead and uniform up. I had a boy do that to me the ONE time I didn't travel in my class A. He was a nice boy and I felt a tad shamed--I shouldn't be asking them to do things I wouldn't be willing to try myself. Now if another adult brought it up--I may just dig in my heals and be contrary.

Well we can camp almost all year so I don't think there is much of an off-season. Just a "cold as heck for Florida" season and a "why are we camping in the mountains instead of Florida in July" season.

Jargon is interesting to pick up especially from outside ones area. I like british one --ie "spanner in the works", etc just to spice things up. When I was at a University my unit was a multi-disciplinary one and one of my favorite memories was the different graduate assistants (geography, biology, engineering, anthropology, art) teach each other their respective buzz words to impress a girl at a party. ("drop Biomass in once" said the biologist, "say the room wants to be open" said the architect "trust me".) It was a lot of fun. I find because of Scouter I use a lot more scout jargon with the other ASM's and it gives the false impression that I know more than I do.

What...most fractured threads ever?! Well I think--look a bunny!

Is there a good map of FL BSA camps?

We have had exactly the same issue! Except he was an active Marine. he just did not want to wear anymore uniforms in his "off" time. Did everything else great. Ex-Life Scout. Would wear a scout-related T-shirt, though. We let it slide. We had bigger issues with a Webelos III ASM with a perfectly tailored uniform that undermined all the other methods. Eventually if all the other adults wear the uniform 90% of the other guys will fall in line.

We have used both brands; my boys preferred the Crossman.

Cubside: Working latrines especially for Mom's (big issue) and surge of boys at once. Water area for canoe, etc. Covered picnic areas for cooking. Scouts: Lots of hiking trails--enough for a 5 mile loop. Variety of terrain Fire rings remote camping sites Latrine/port a let near site.

I think we use a sliding scale. If the boy is a known procrastinator--maybe not. If the boy had a good reason for being out of sync or was making an extra effort and trying to squeak in the deadline--probably.

I have a rule of thumb: The first time I hear the words "matrix management" out of the mouth of a manager I know we are hosed.

In my old hometown the Catholic diocese supported a hospice that had many gay patients with AIDS. They never turned anyone away (capacity aside) if they couldn't pay or for orientation. (Heck I know priests that are gay) I know because my mom, a catholic eucharistic minister, made the daily communion rounds there. It was a pretty expensive operation.

Hawkins, I think most of the folks here understand the terms but they are used so much and so poorly they become hackneyed. Don't confuse dislike for jargon as ignorance.

Until a fuel line on a Jet Ski or ATV breaks, sprays fuel on a scout, there is a terrible accident and BSA is sued. Then folks like me, who never wanted them in the first place will complain that BSA took them away.

How does your troop schedule boards of review? We have a "BOR night" typically on the PLC night after a campout. We also have one a week or so before the COH. Do these occur at troop meetings or at separate designated times? Both, During troop meetings, or on special BOR nights. If not at troop meetings, how often are BORs offered to the scouts? Adults will make great efforts to round up a committee. We will also do one at a campout or summercamp in special cases. Who handles the scheduling? Advancement Chair schedules boys for BORs. After a SMC a boy contacts by email the AC to request a BOR. Some boys will go up to the advancement chair who will grumble but do it anyway. We will do it right away if they ask; we err on the side of accommodation. Who sits on the boards? Committee members, sometimes ASMs. We do not let ASM's who work with the boys (say a NSP ASM)sit on one and adults to recuse themselves discretely if they have a bias pro/con. How are BOR members recruited? Recruited from the parent pool, it is an ever-present danger for parents standing around outside the scout hut. If a parent does a good job he will get recruited more often. While I am not happy with our COH schedule and delayed recognition folks will work hard to get the proper BOR done. We are a big Troop you can have a 6-12 a night. A few boys had back-to-back BOR (2nd class/1st class). Boys are expected to be in uniform with proper rank and POR on uniform (this may require a trip to the stapler). If a boy is missing a part (especially Star+) we will not reschedule but pause to let the boy scavenge the part from the uniform closet/friend.

Lisa, I am very, very sorry. I dread that happening. After a while you know so many boys...you see them grow up; they become part of your life. My brother died in his teens and I saw what it did to my parents and the family. I wouldn't wish it on nobody. Like a nuclear bomb. I will pray for them. That was one heck of a good BOR answer though. That is a good story--he got the point. Some people live a long time and little is left to mark their passing; some boys leave early and have touched others. Again I am sorry--it sounds so inadequate.

Cubmobile has the advantage of tiring them out. At least the pushers.

Moosie, as long as you are ecumenical in your bashing, it is fine with me! As others have stated, I think the minute you take the governments money well then you get the governments string attached to it. If you want to maintain your Independence well make it work without it, some religious based schools do. I will say- it WAS a good topic!

Calling scouts "Our Customers". Just last night I heard "we are not filling the recreational needs of our first customers". I said "you mean the boys needs to have more fun?".

Come on Moosie! Sounds a bit like catholic bashing... There are Baptist Hospitals. In fact the big merger locally here was of the Catholic and Baptist hospitals. Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, and Methodists (and especially Methodist) all have formed colleges, hospitals, publishing houses, and yes not-for-profit development companies (I worked with them when I was at HUD). I have seen Jewish hospitals in south florida. All have benefited from this constitutional "loop hole". (lets not talk about Scientology--a sore subject in nearby Pinellas county) All will charge you real money. Per capita, several Protestant denominations --Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Lutherans I think higher incomes than Catholics. The Methodists alone were quite busy beavers founding things right and left. Historically Catholic schools and hospitals were prevalent not because of a desire to be rich but because: (1) There were a LOT of catholics. (2) Priests, Nuns, and Brothers would staff these institutions at very low pay. As they have dies out and being replaced by paid staff many of these places are becoming more expensive. (3) Some catholic ethnic groups (irish, portugese, spanish) could not get in or were served poorly by existing institutions. So there was a demand. This has been a pattern seen worldwide. This was why there were historically black colleges. Yes ANY institution will tend to (A) Empire build and (B)protect its competitive advantages. Look at BSA national as well. But I would argue that it is not a Catholic-only phenomena.

Well it made a lot of money for ol Joe Kennedy! My youngest is taking American Business MB, maybe he can figure out a $angle$. Loud announcements to parents that we are not responsible for any damage, theft, or loss of electronics on campouts keeps it in check, a little.

I generally just hate the things. I think part of camping is to "get away". I have had entire days at camp spoiled by a ASM who did nothing but talk to work for days on end. Gee, it was stressful just listening to him. Boy use of cell phones also seems to make cutting the apron springs worse for those young lads who get homesick. Boys stay up all night playing card games like "Zombie Fluxx" or telling dirty jokes or describing in minute detail the video games they are playing (Skyrim seems to be overtaking the others lately) so that part does not bother me. I am all in favor of an actually enforced outright Troop ban but feel like I am on the losing side of history here.

My goodness I agree with Hawkins! I can accept we can evolve with additional training for things that are hazardous--we don't want boys needlessly hurt and want to minimize risk. So the weather hazard training was probably a good thing--and prevented some bone-headed things in my unit. But banning goes too much the other way.

We do not do immediate recognition in our Troop; boy have to wait until the next COH; we do only 3. I think it is because we have a big Troop and it just seems like too much work. I think such few COH's does de-motivate the boys who are by nature competitive. It also creates false pressure to "hurry up and sign off" on advancement leading up to a COH. A kid misses a requirement by 1 week and he has to wait 4-8 months. He may decide to just do something else. Boys have plenty of other opportunities to learn the pain of missed deadlines.

Either the technology is hazardous or not. I do not see how the Whitebox stoves have any 'safety features" different than a well built DIY one. Had a boy try to light a canister stove by turning on the gas and holding over a fire...and then promptly dropping into the fire. So the canisters got their problems as well.