Tampa Turtle

I agree, individually. Boys will start making individual choices as they start getting more active in school and extra-circular activities. The "advancing group" should get more and more ragged. That said if there was a deadline for a COH I might offer to give the boy an extra opportunity to finish up. I have met with boys between meetings if it was a big issue--that way if they don't well it was there choice.

You know I gotta agree with the President in this. Let some other LEO's like the FBI (if they have jurisdiction) look into it and figure out what probably happened. The jury pool I was in had 4 possibilities: (1) Stand your ground (2) 1st Degree Murder (3) 2nd Degree Murder (4) 3rd Degree Murder with a Felony From what I recall in Florida (4) if he you do a felony and use a handgun and someone dies you can be charged with 3rd Degree Murder. (Think of a bank robbery and gun accidentally goes off) I think penalties are stricter than Murder 2. So It would be hard for a DA to even KNOW what to try the guy on. I think regardless Zimmerman got pretty hot and was, at the very least, put himself in a stupid situation. I know I have been stupid--once got in a yelling match with a cop. Fortunately he was cooler than me. I know in my dealings with the Police (and I am sure there some LEO's on Scouter) that they are reluctant to ever arrest someone if there is the DA is not likely to pursue. And stand your ground makes everyone reluctant. All I know in the neighborhood I work in there were A LOT of hoodies yesterday. I guess Old Navy is selling a few extra.

I saw a reference to a **possible** announcement from BSA in May in some Summer Camp planning documents. Would like to know as it would be popular with out boys (a lot have the patch).

I think there is great wisdom in Eamonns comments. Last year I tried to crack down on "poor quality AOL control' from a feeder pack and all I did was cause a lot of bad feelings. We had to grin and accept it but made them work to earn their Scout Rank. (which they should know 90% if they did AOL properly). It is not the boys fault for the poor job adults do. This year a wiser ASM who was our pack-troop liason started working with them a month early to shore up their AOL requirements/scout rank preps. Boy I never seem so many perfect uniforms, ready answers, and all of them came over.

Hang in their Lisa it gets better. Get the Cub-Scout How-To book; lots of games and ideas. Keep a box of stuff for games. My first Tiger Den has 20 boys (6 special needs) and no parent helpers. They would just sit there--I would beg for help. Eventually I would tell the boys "GO to your Mom and Dad AND HAVE THEM help you glue the beads" or whatever. The lads would scurry off and interrupt the chattering adults. The second year I had 12 and 1 helper. He was not very effective but was emotional support and occasionally "pick off" a troublesome boy who was being disruptive --it was usually my own. I never worked so hard for anything than I did that first Tiger year. I do public speaking and I sweated out standing in front of those boys each week. One time one kid yelled "your boring!" and I felt like the fraud I was. If you stick with it one or two parents will help a little. Most are scared and don' know what to do. Some are just exhausted and want a break. Here are a few things you could try that I did: (1) Stop worrying about snacks. I just announced that snacks were up to the rest of the parents to organize. I had no part of it. (2) Directly ask a parent or two to help. ""Jackson's mom" or "Mrs Smith" could you help us glue the macaroni" or whatever. (3) Hand out a parent survey of what the parents jobs, education, or hobbies are. Most folks will help in an area they are confident in. Ask each one to do 10 minutes on it or organize a go see it. Give a candy reward to each boy that hands in a survey. (4) Remember that you are a hero, a minor celebrity to those boys. It is worth it. Some of my first Tigers are entering High School and still kinda remember me. (5)Recruit a Boy Scout to come by and demonstrate something cool like compass work or tieing knots or playing a game.

Baden brings up good points. We have all seen good and bad in Troops so maybe not all AHG is bad.

This whole case has made me really angry. I am white but as part of my job and education I usually work in the black community and have a degree from a historically black college. I have come to realize that yes I have my prejudices but most folks do. The point is to be aware of them and rise above them. (I bet the guy Zimmerman will claim "I don't have a prejudiced bone in my body". It reminds me of a local school principal who, in response to a parent complaint about a bullying incident stated "In my 13 years as Principal I never been aware of ONE case of bullying.") What I am angry about is the stand your ground law is messed up. I was in the jury pool for a recent trial on a similar case and got a good 10 hours lesson on it. It is pretty easy for a citizen to arm himself, put him into a situation outside his home or street, brandish a weapon to a stranger ordering him to stop, and then kill him claiming the unarmed man was threatening him. It is hard to make even manslaughter stick because of the statute.

Haze 'em til they cry.

I have actually said "Dad you can stand over there and I will send him over when I am done with him." Takes practice, at least for me.

I hear my guys call girls "dudes" so I think anything is better than "you people".

WOLF! NOT WOOF!

Really. I hear: (after introductions) (1) I am supposed to wear a uniform? (2) Who do I see to get a Troop T-shirt?

Just for ideas... we have tried the following successfully with young scouts: - Canoeing (needed to borrow the canoes. A rental is good if costs) - Caving (through a local spelunking society) - Military Museums - Geocatching (I disliked it but boys loved it) - Small Boat Sailing - Kayaking - Fishing We decide a free a few years ago that since we were in Tampa that we would concentrate on aquatics and hiking. Starting to push backpacking harder. So find your own Troop style. Also after complaints that we had too many expensive trips we do a "high-low" mix. If we do a expensive trip we try to do 1 or 2 lower cost trips as well.

I mentioned how many adults because we had an early outing with newbies where we dropped off the scouts and a couple scouters to hike in and then drove in the gear with a couple other dads. That way the boys were only carrying water and snacks--even if it was only a couple miles. Gave them mental transition time and get a little energy out. Agree on the gear; they need time to figure out what they need. A few inexpensive DIY projects could could. Depending on the weather and insects some cowboy camping or survival style camping toward the end of the season might be fun. I am so jealous of the Kennesaw Mountain idea! I would recommend working in the The Southern Museum of Civil War and Locomotive History as well if they haven't done it. Working toward a short AT trip next year would be great. Vogel State Park is an easy trip (a lot of sites nearby), you can swim, and they have some short connecting hikes to the AT. We do a *very* popular surf trip to the beach. Consider some sort of "founders" patch for the boys--might help with retention. Ask around some established Troops for equipment--some old Troops can accumulate a TON of old stuff. Also ask them for advice on stoves, etc before your Troop buys some. Nothing like actual experience on costs, upkeep, and boy-proof design than from folks living it. There are a lot of different opinions out there. Sounds like fun!

I say let the SPL do his SPL thing. They say a lot worse than that due to inexperience or temperament.

We did the following: -It was done the weekend before school starts as a way to get the "vet" cubs reacquainted from the summer break. -We did at a local park with a fishing pier. That made parking and bathrooms easier. -We asked our "parent" Troop to provide some Boy Scouts for some hauling and supervision. They did as service hours. -We designated a couple of adults as "pier managers" whose job was to keep an eye on the boys and help them tie and bait hooks. At lease one should know what he is going. -We had a bait manager who made sure the 5 gallon bait buckets were kept full. Also to keep the playing with the shrimp and pin-fish to a reasonable minimum. -We had a couple moms take pictures since we did catch and release. -We reminded the adults of the state fishing regs via email. -We had a water manager who kept the jugs full of water and cups-gotta keep em hydrated. They also had sunscreen. -We did it for about 4 hours or so. We provided free lunch as we found that was a barrier in past years. Usually it was hotdogs, chips, and soda. The pier we were out eventually catered it for us--they did it cheaper than us. We handed out tickets to for lunch (and ice cream) when families came up. It made it easier to estimate how many hotdogs, etc. If we gave out to many than we planned we had time to punt. -Make it easy as possible for the parents. A lot more kids want to fish than parents have the knowledge or time to do it. -Bring extra poles. I made a bunch of "old school" poles with bamboo from my yard. They were quite a hit. But if each leader adult brings a spare pole or two it is a great help. Make sure you put some masking tape and name on each loaner.

Yeah sometimes my ASM patch would get loose from the VELCRO brand fastener ahd flap around before I would notice. I was glad when my last son crossed over and I could just sew it on. Now it just flaps due to my poor sewing skills.

Ya know if a Muslim or Jewish wanted to start up a group and limit it it would be OK so why not AHG? It's not like it is the only game in town. Like someone said --Freedom of Association. Power of the marketplace and all that. Do we cover freedom of association in Citizen in the Nation? First time I heard it I thought it had something to do with American Girl Dolls or American Heritage Magazine. I don't like a few things abut GSUSA and a few things about AHG's. I have met a handful of each and seemed OK.

I did the velcro. It didn't look great but I could switch the patches and tabs. Snaps may be easier and less bulky.

You can always do an urban hike as well.

Since it is a small group of guys spread them out a bit. Even if car camping march them in a mile or so away from the parking. If I had to do it all over again I would stay away from patrol boxes. Maybe see if you could "borrow" some older scouts from another Troop to do some instruction sometimes.

1st off congratulations and good luck! I agree on starting off with a hike. If they are newbies and unconditioned you may want to make it 5 miles. Or you can have a basecamp and a loop hike. However starting off as a backpacking Troop would have some appeal if you could keep it simple and short distances at first. Try some modest campouts and concentrate on the basic skils at each (hydration, foot care, compass, first aid, cooking) before starting a bigger adventure. Basic Tenderfoot to First Class stuff. Some of this depends on how much adult support you have. Get them camping, keep it outdoors! I assume when you say "New Troop" you mean New "Scout Patrol".

We have been happy with Troopmaster. The many reports it cranks out give us ASM's lots of data to look over to troubleshoot trends. For a small Troop it is overkill. Exporting to council seems OK.

Thanks Scouter for the link--it really helps a lot. I think Kudu is right--even with the prerequisite warnings on partials--this sure smells like cupcakes baking. The only thing they left off was "and we'll your name on the side of the trailer".

Kudu--danger--right on! I was teaching Emergency Prep class the other night. Nothing gets a boys attention like electrocution, traumatic amputation, crushing injuries, or being on fire. "Dang it lad, don't TELL me how you would put out the boy on fire SHOW me! Push 'em down and roll him!" Of course I did not have the advantage of an air-conditioned building...poor lads I guess they are not Eagle material.