Tampa Turtle

And now I am taking it away!

Kudu, That and the link, good stuff.

And for Eamonn's great answer...here;s a knot!

The SPL makes that call and reviews the menu's. We have cooking competitions now and that has seemed to increase the quality of the effort. The older boys counsel alot about empty calories, etc. There is no issue about the occasionally junk food as long as their is protein, etc. Or pop-tarts The boys suggested the current arrangement. Individuals got tired of being stiffed. Most parents submit a check anyway. The Grubmaster has a rough budget per boy and buys the food. Submits the receipt for reimbursement. This is reviewed at the PLC and comments are made if a Patrol consistently goes over or under budget. The treasurer them issues the reimbursement--sometimes directly into the scout account. A lot of this is done online.

I have seen this, and yes some boys need a close watch. But I agree with you to treat them like (junior) colleagues. I learned this from an old CM who used to always talk to the cubs "Gentlemen...".

Again, if you are a DL or ADL you are pretty busy. Let the other parents decide ($1 a week or rotate or whatever). You concentrate on the program. What happened with us is there was always a parent who had a little more money but usually didn't put in a lot of other effort. So they would "buy their way out" by providing snacks. Great--one less thing to worry about. We had another Dad who was unemployed for a while. So cash was tight but he had time. So he did a lot of planning for activities, games, etc. But I was in the "no snack" camp but stayed out of it.

I think Enders Game DOES have some good leadership lesson but much of the story is pretty dark and it is cruel. I mentioned this to my cheerful and sweet son who replied "well, life can be cruel". But I have smiled to myself and thought of Ender when I once saw a "loser Patrol" of casts-offs gell as a unit, find some unlikely leaders and take off.

Basement, Remember we are in transition. We shoved a lot onto the boys at first and had a good number walk--they were not ready. So it is a mix. In our Troop (and I know this is not perfect--I am ready for comments)We typically have about 40 boys on a campout. (1) The PLC decides on the trip (cycling, kayaking, whatever) (2) The Adults look for park availability (3) The PLC decide the location (4) Adults make reservation, tour permit. (5) The PLC plans the packing list, budget, and some activities for trip. (6) Adults email the permission slip and estimate cost (7) Adults collect money and permission slips. Money goes right to treasurer, roster gets modified. (8) Patrols determine menu, pick grubmaster, Patrol QM with Troop QM prepare all Patrol gear. If PL is not going the acting PL for the trip is announced. (9) About 4 days out adults "lock down" trip roster, have conference call on drivers, seats, trips, any special equipment rentals. Double check on training, forms, etc. (10)Adults may plan extra activities either "in pocket" or for New Scout Patrol. (11)Roster totals for each Patrol goes to SPL>Patrol Leaders (Or acting PL for trip) (12)PL contacts Grubmaster with final number who shops usually night before the meeting. (13)On some trips QM corp may pre-load trailers with Troop Gear or prep Canoe or whatever tie-downs. This is a day or two out. (14)On trip day boys show up 45 minutes early. Loading is boy led chaos. Patrols load Patrol boxes, cooler, etc. QM's oversee this. SPL is responsible for Troop gear only. Adults responsible for adult Patrol boxes. (15)Boys with Adult supervision move trailers, do hitches, etc. (16)SPL does roll call with Roster. Adults take last minute payments, slips, and medical forms. SM travels with all required paperwork (In the campout "football), notebook with everyone's medical forms, and a large first aid kit. (17)Adults get boys to destination. (18) At campsite boys unload trailers. Patrols pick areas. Adults set up their own site. (19) In our Troop it is custom for the adults to host the Cracker Barrel. Boys may help in the preparation. We have had a few boys who chronically showed up last minute and were hard to squeeze in--especially when we were out of seat belts. I wanted to impose some new cut off procedure BUT at the suggestion of this forum we dealt with them individually. That seemed to work well (aside from one boy missing a couple campouts til his parents got the message) WHEW!

What we need to do is shop for Scout britches like in Ender's game...err I got my threads all mixed up. Never mind.

What do you do to organize the campout? We require parental signed permission slips and payment usually the meeting before the trip. A sign up sheet preceded that by about a week. We get a few cancellations but also a few additions--which drive me crazy for finding enough seatbelts, grub planning etc. Maybe with the new guys it was just a communication issue.

I guess it depends on what you are doing. I was a DL so I was just tracking my boys. If I was running a Pack maybe not. Being able to push out info to the parents easily via email would be a plus.

The original thread was about BSA and manufacture sourcing and BSA and britches are near and dear to a scouters heart -er rear. This is under the "uniform" heading.

I always used Scout Trax and it was free.

As current president of the "Guys who think that BSA pants should cost less, and suck less" Association I just to buy some decent pants!

That has been my attitude. Yes I want the boys but I really want them to stay in scouting. So if another Troop is more to our liking than great. I really like the WOSM model but the US seems to like to move around more. Schools, Churches, Social Groups. If folks think the next place might give them what they want they will often move. So I don't see why Scouts would be any different.

We have a 75% attendance requirement but we don't take regular attendance. I am an ASM so I do not do PLC. I have been keeping an eye on the "staff" POR's leaving the "command" guys to the SPL-SM. The Scribe, Webmaster, Librarian, Chaplin's Aid POR's seem to be making an effort this term so I cannot complain. I just see a lot of campouts where the PL and APL are not there for (often good reason). I will talk to the SM this campout. Stuff seems to be running, though. The higher functioning patrols have an abundance of attending ex-SPL's, PL's so usually someone steps into the breech. The struggling ones don't and suffer. It just bugs me. I see guys who want the job and deserve a chance who don't get the opportunity.

Barry, Yes, yes --shop around! That is what I always encouraged my Webes to do. Within 10 minutes of my house: One that is very spit and polish and BSA by the numbers. A very legit Eagle Mill but Boy Run. One that is less so but does a lot of camping and aquatic activities. Boy Run. One that is a reinvigorating very Catholic unit. Kind of a start up. One that never turns in BSA paperwork, parties a lot, and probably has knife throwing contests at COH. Savages but camp twice a month ALL year. Each different in style.

I might tell my son that. Maybe I should just read it to him. I got him to read a bit of Bradbury's Illustrated Man. He thought it was a bit creepy. The syntax of some of the older books I think cause some difficulty. Of course Hunger Game mania has swept the house. I have reread Ender's game about 4 times. I thought Speaker for the Dead was rather good. Others not so much. Interesting both my boys LOVED Master and Commander. Got them interested enough to watch the BBC series Longitude. It is always hard to introduce a beloved classic to your children to have them be disinterested. Philistines. My wife has never forgiven me for "Santa" giving them Monty Python and the Holy Grail and avoiding the wifely Python embargo. They loved that--must be a mail thing. Yeah my younger one wants to be a Marine but he is built like Ender and very sweet. I think it is the snappy uniforms.

I was looking at some data and the high performing patrol seem have higher attendance at campouts and more PL and APL's going.* *That really sticks in my craw. We have too many Patrol Leaders who get elected and are AWOL at meetings and camp outs.

I am willing to pay an extra 10% premium on an Official Item provided it was a quality item. My first concern is a good product. I compared my new replacement centennial pants with my son's new BDU tactical pants. (Tru-Spec Atlanco Basic BDU Trousers, 60/40 Poly/Cotton) Comments: Color Same: Cannot tell a difference. Fabric Weight: Seems the same. Look: I think it would be very hard to see that they are not uniform pants. BDU hang better and look sharper. Pockets: BDU has 2 less. Fasteners: BDU has no velcro or zippers just buttons. Stitching: BDU is superior but not by much. Construction: BDU is not a switchback. Has extra reinforcement in seat, knees, and "inseam stress points". Both have adjustable waist. BDU has 2 less pockets but the front ones are much bigger. BDU Length much longer. So in general I found the construction of the BDU to be a little less complicated (less zippers) but more thoughtful. The centennial seemed to be designed by committee. Price: Centennial $50 BDU $28. BSA costs 78% more.

I think both are valid. We do a mix of both, and --I hate to admit--some Webelos III at times. I like the Socratic method and sometimes tell the boys "how can you solve this?" and it works a lot of the time. Sometimes we let them do it all without much help and they do a pretty good--not great--job more than half of the time.

I generally like the overall uniform. I just want it to be a little more practical.

Yes I would agree to err on the side of inclusiveness.

I, and my son in question, LIKED the Centennial design. However the quality was poor and the product is over-priced when I can get a better product for less money.

Ah yes but a Den--er group of families can meet as a group on their own and have a campout. Nothing wrong with that. If they want to use the time to do some activities, they can do that too.