TAHAWK

CalicoPenn, the number 17 was reserved for an OA lodge in Cleveland in 1924. However, Scout executives were so opposed to OA that an actual lodge was not formed until 1955. Several SEs thereafter refused to have any involvement in OA and the Lodge sank into largely being an adult club. A few years ago, there were no Lodge activities of any kind for one full program year. The Lodge is much more active now, with a very impressive Lodge Chief.and super Lodge Adviser. I wish they would publish a camping directory or do something along those lines to more concretely answer the SMs' question "What's in it for my troop?"

And "Scout-led" is just one part of the Patrol Method. Let me guess: the Scouts do not spend most of their Scouting time functioning as patrols. Instead, it's troop, troop, troop. Reread your BP. The lesson you drew is just not there, If the Scouts are stuck at beginning and do not promptly get to actual Boy Scouting, that is not something BP found acceptable. Non-Patrol method may be something, and it may not be "bad." It is, however, not Boy Scouting, and any Scout who can read will see that eventually. The Handbook explicitly promises them Scout leadership. Do we want to teach that "good enough" is acceptable when there is a choice? Is the goal for each pitch to just be near the plate or for the basketball shot to be just off the rim? Or do we do do our "best" to try to achieve the goal? I know what we ask the Scouts to promise. Should we ask less of ourselves?

I am informed that the problems with the website article on programming will be corrected.

Have the new SA take Orientation for New Scout Parents. "Ask you PL" Here is another thing that can have an effect over time. "Leader" = Scout in leadership position "Scouter" = commissioned (uniformed) adult "Adult" = all adults who are not Scouters. Helps in recognizing and remembering who is supposed to be leading.

While planning a campout is fine, Scouts are supposed to be doing that democratically year 'round. OA is for active Scouts. It is not an alternative. "[T]he OA emphasizes service to the unit. In this way, Arrowmen give back to their troops with the leadership skills and values of service learned through the Order." (Not surprising that that OA's spokesperson does not know that the primary "unit" in Boy Scouting is the patrol, not the troop.)

When I was Lodge Secretary, renewal of membership required a letter from the member's SM stating that the member had been an "active member" of the Troop or Post over the last year. It was not unknown for a member to be dropped for failure to supply such a letter after being reminded. That, plus the fantastic camping directory supplied by the Lodge )(updated quarterly and personally delivered - in a mimeograph age) kept the SMs supportive of OA.

Wait .................................................for .....................................................it.

Anyone, youth or adult, needs to follow the rules (if you can figure them out). Otherwise every adult with leader power is running his or her own youth program. The rules include adult BoR - at which they, like everyone else, is supposed to follow the rules. Accepting the OP's facts, this Committee needs to: 1) check the point of the Law on "Obedient"; 2) become familiar with the rules they are honor-bound to follow when sitting as a BoR; 3) notice that the "method" of "Adult Association" that they are honor-bound to use is primarily about all the adults modeling the values, including the Law; and 4) follow the rules!!. What the OP reports they have done is absolutely wrong. They are making up as they go along, "If anyone is lacking in scout spirit, it's the members of this committee. pure and simple." Often the Committee is untrained and look to the SM as THE authority on all things Scouting. Having said all that, the issue is what can be done to best help the Scout become a better person and citizen. The Scout might get a lot of value out of deciding on the "what."

An thus an opportunity to learn about having to make choices. As opposed to having the adults make the choices for them in the name of "efficiency."

Beyond the adult tendency to take charge, BSA presently has no training that discusses even half of the Patrol Method or has as its objective that the trainee learn what makes up the Patrol Method. The results are hardly surprising. However, there are people in the upper echelons of BSA who are advocating for the Patrol Method and for training in the Patrol Method.

It would seem that this is an illustration not of a policy shift at BSA but of the need at BSA for someone(s) to police what different people or teams generate, to the end that a consistently accurate message is delivered. Another example would be those in the Journey to Excellence bubble ruling that a weekend watching movies is a "weekend campout." An article on Bill noted that he, informally, took on the role of insuring that BSA literature was consistent and of high quality. Apparently, he had no problem raising issues of consistency and quality with anyone at BSA.

Scouting, by deliberate choice, has always selected affirmative guidance over "thou shalt not." If you are told that the SPL runs the PLC and you have someone else do it, would a rule "Someone other than the SPL shall not run the PLC" really change your behavior? But since you asked: "“Never do for a Scout what he can do for himself.†Sentinel947, it was Andy's blog that got me looking. Eagle 94-A1, I am trying to get the answer. I suspect it's another example of Hanlon's Razor in action.

In several publications, BSA states that annual program planning is to be accomplished by the PLC, led by the SPL. The SM acts as a coach for the SPL and a resource. In two publications that I can find, BSA says that the SPL presents the proposed annual plan to the Troop Committee, which is to remember that program is to be Scout-planned when considering whether the Troop has sufficient resources to support the proposed program. These current BSA statements are consistent with BSA policy for over eighty-five years. Inconsistent with those eighty-five years of statements is the current BSA web article entitled "Planning." http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/ProgramPlanning.aspx This web article says the following: Perhaps this is, in part, simply very poor writing. But the error in stating that the Committee, COR, and UC (and other adults) are invitees is a clear violation of BSA policy. The presence of so many adults will change the process even if, as seems unlikely, they never open their mouths. And the stated claim that they need to be there for "efficiency" suggests that they are absolutely expected to participate. For a typical troop, the Scouts present could be outnumbered two-to-one. -- or more.

"At a COH one of the patrols (designated before the COH starts, and goes up front, welcomes everyone, etc. then distributes the awards for this patrol member. He then hands off the duties to the next PL who does the same and hands off to the next PL. The last PL does his thing and then thanks everyone for coming and invites them to stay for refreshments." Sounds great !

Allow that adults should know more about possibilities. Presenting options, if they are really options, that the Scouts have not thought of is perfectly consistent with TPM, as is trying to convince them to exercise their power to chose in a particular direction. (Yes, a line can be crossed So don't.) The troop I was with for twenty-five years was weak on ceremonies (opinion). Cattle calls. Literally 12 seconds to award Life. Parents not happy. We had the leaders witness the really fantastic ceremonies (opinion) at a troop in the neighboring district. The leaders decided to do more. We had a dad who was an amateur theater hobbyist as a resource. The ceremonies improved (opinion).

There is such a shortage of adults, that failure to follow mandated method is tolerated. Not only is there no official pressure to offer Boy Scouting but there not even recognition of adults who do the job or the units they serve. ______________________________ What could BSA do if the Patrol method was important to BSA?

"Discipline must be constructive. Discipline used in Scouting must be constructive and reflect Scouting’s values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. Disciplinary activities involving isolation, humiliation, or ridicule are prohibited. Examples of positive discipline include verbal praise and high fives."

"Prepared for life." In the adult world, failing to follow the "rules" typically results in negative consequences. An alternative in "patrol competition" would be to have positive consequences for those who follow the rules.

Let not the good be defeated by the search for the perfect.

That would be Peter Pan Syndrome, and no I have not.

Lesson: A gentle reminder from an adult can make things better.

Stosh, have you noticed that you are [GASP!] an adult. Suppose there is anything adults can make better?

"All hat and no cowboy."

My prospective includes, "I will not buy Japanese junk." For my grandparents' generation it was, "I will not buy German junk." Go back far enough and it's "American junk." Spyderco, Benchmade, A.G. Russell, and Kai have been sourcing knives from China for some years - over ten. Those who use and review the knives find them to be of a high quality and a good value for the price. That is, they are not junk. It does not take years to discover what can be discovered about fit & finish, heat treatment, and performance. The U.S. Military apparently feels the same way in sourcing critical military items from China, although I wonder about the strategic aspects of relying on a country that seems to be increasingly aggressive. Buy American sounds good to me, but don't fool yourself about the value equation.

Then stop purchasing it. If there were not purchasers, I doubt that the product would be made - at least not for long. I mentioned two brands. Obviously, you are not a knife knut. Otherwise, you would recognize Spyderco and Benchmade. I will add A.G. Russell and Kai. You might be interested in this: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Chinese-products-of-such-low-quality I like the "race to the bottom" line.