TAHAWK

There seems to be more than one definition of "servant leadership." "Most Scouts will very quickly tell you that they would rather tell people what to do than be told what to do. That is human nature, not just the nature of a Scout. But leadership in the troop is not about the title or even about being the person doing the telling. It is about a choice to lead. It is about a choice to give rather than to receive. What we need to build into the makeup of our Scout leaders is the concept of servant leadership. We trust effective leaders because they care about us and about helping others succeed. That is the true role of a leader—helping other members of the troop succeed. Servant leaders understand what success looks like not only for the group but for each member of every team. They do everything they can to help the troop and each member succeed. Servant leaders help the troop through day-to-day operations and through all the chores and tasks that must be accomplished. Duties are delegated and roles assigned. Troop leaders help manage this process. They focus on how to make every member successful in assigned tasks so that the troop will come together quickly as a team. Servant leaders want to lead because they know they can help make a difference and provide a better experience for every individual. . . . Servant leadership is about making the choice to lead, to give more than you receive, and to make a difference. • Effective servant leaders care about others, about helping others succeed, and about making the group successful. • It is important to build up the idea and value of servant leadership in our Scout and adult leaders. • A good group leader is focused on the success of the members of his team—as individuals and as a team. Servant leaders understand what success looks like not only for the team as a whole, but also for each member of the team. • Group members can see when a leader cares about their needs and is focused on their success. That service earns him the group’s respect. When he has that respect, the Scout has earned the title and role of leader. • A troop leader who seeks to serve knows his troop members well enough to help them succeed, helps his troop through its day-to-day operation, manages and delegates troop duties, focuses on how to help all members be successful in their assigned tasks, and works to bring the troop together as a team. • Servant leaders want to lead because they know they can help make a difference and provide a better experience for every individual." Reading at least the B.S.A. literature on the topic, one leads in many ways, including delegating and assigning tasks. What seems to tie it all together is the goal or motivation of helpfulness. So when a "servant leader" observes someone using the wrong approach, say a myopic approach, does he correct that person? How does he correct the myopic one? B.S.A. simultaneous advocates "servant leadership," EDGE, and learning by doing. How does always cleaning the Dutch Ovens for the patrol fit all three?

At a Roundtable in 1961, they distributed a pamphlet from Reynolds Aluminum about uses for Aluminum foil in camping. Therein we found plans for a "Camp Meal in Foil" and a coupon for $.10 off a box of foil. I think I had three foil meals in the next five years. Jump forward to 1981 and retaking SM Basic. Somehow, foil meals had become THE prototypical Scout meal.. I have never understood that. Maybe the same way buses replaced trolleys in Southern California - lots of propaganda. Just had my umpteenth one last Saturday. But "foil soldiers" ?????? Is that entirely PC? If not, I'll try one.

Characterizing representative democracy as "mob rule" sorta' dictates your conclusion, does it not? Who would be in favor of that? (Those who say they are for mob rule soon call for a whiff of grapeshot in the streets.) What if we call adults refusing to let the mandated elected representatives make the mandated decisions "benign tyranny"? Would it be better to leave off the pejorative labels and stick to reasons?. Like, "It's not fair to expect the boys to make adult decisions" or "The boys are just not ready to plan their own program" or "How dare a patrol consider its own interests?" Probably no more agreement but a lot more courteous discussion.

I know you appreciate that we are trying to raise youth into good citizens in a nation and a collection of states and local governments where majority driving decisions is said to be a good thing. Majority rule often produces the least common denominator. It also produces the exceptional on occasion, even the exceptionally talented and the exceptionally crooked (See Detroit, mayor of, prison). Minority rule has not done notably better. I respectfully remind the community of the bald guy's statement: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." Majority rule in Troop 43 produced backpacking summer camp every other year. Explorers went two-three days earlier, pioneered the trail, identified possible patrol sites, ran advancement sites at camp, and took separate side hikes. At the TLCs I attended for nine years, the older Scouts and the Explorers (later Senior Scouts) were the more influential members. Of course, all the patrols and crews were regularly hiking and camping separately, so the issue of same ol' same ol' was less likely to come up. Anther tenant of our society is supposed to be respect for minorities. The Scouts are supposed to learn that too. Oh look! The two sides went their separate ways. The world kept spinning. You like Rap and I like classic R&R.

I like camping. I have no problem with urging a Scout to do more than the minimum. I suggest that willingness to do more than the minimum is a good character lesson. Compromise is good - if no fundamental value is compromised. What if the lesson learned is that power is all that matters? It is so because I say so, and forget the law. Following the law is mere book thumping, and my values trump the law. How does that lesson work for the Scouts? (How is that lesson working out for the U.S.A.?) "Outcome"? A fundamental tenant of our society is supposed to be that we a society governed by law not by men, and good Citizenship is THE outcome we are supposed to strive for. At this point, I see no happy outcome. Fixing blame will not fix the problem. Hopefully the Scouts come out of this undamaged.

There is a natural tension between what one team in a league wants to do and what other teams want to do. Different people with different experience often have different opinions. One solution is for all teams to agree on majority rule. That is not contrary to Scouting values. Not bad to learn about compromise (which has come in our polity to mean I get at least some of what I want and you get nothing of what you want so eventually I get all of what I wanted). If that is the agreement, then I believe that all teams are honor-bound to go along. Bill says as much. Another option is for each team to decide where they want to go. That is not contrary to Scouting values. An issue might be availability of resources to support separate programs. I have experienced both approaches, and they both worked in the sense that the Scouts had a good time. All the above assumes that you agree with Bill and B.S.A. (some of the time and in the Rules and Regulations) that the basic unit of Scouting is the patrol and that there is no "troop method." If you think solely in terms of troop, troop, troop, it may seem like a kind of disloyalty not to support the league decision.

Other than the change Bill made as to how the PL gets his job, Boy Scouting, as promoted by B-P, was as far from adult-led as you can be. He said the Patrol Method - boys leading boys -- it was the one thing that most differentiated Boy Scouts from other youth organization. You have to know that. I know you know that. And while it is true that BSA troops were pretty much adult-led at first, Bill led the move to the Patrol Method with elected leaders. That was the way it was in the 1950s and 1960s when membership was at its peak. Do you believe that a boy can learn to lead by watching adults lead? I don't think it works well, if at all. It's like adults taking over pitching in Little League. B.S.A. says, officially, that it's not optional. What B.S.A. does is another story due to it's goals . What YOU do it up to you, Boy Scouting or not? I think that, unlike NSP VS mixed, use of the Patrol Method is absolutely critical, and failure to use it is a good part of the reason for the decline of the movement in the U.S. Kids have less tolerance for fraud than adults. They are promised one thing, in writing, and expect what they are promised. (The failure to keep the fun and adventure promise is another big issue.) And "boy led" is just part of it, as I am also sure that you know.

Wow, Hedge. We would criticize the guy for not following a policy that did not exist? That is tough !!! But "work for" what? Teaching kids to lead? Kinda' hard to do that if they are not allowed to actually lead. (B-P said that, in effect. Partial responsibility=partial results. I would add, "No responsibility = no results, if the "what" is leadership.) Compared to other issues that we have, this is not a critical issue. B.S.A. is not in its steep decline over mixed-age patrols vs. NSP, whatever any of us personally prefer. If you missed it, the Orientation for New Scout Parents prepared by some doughty person(s) at Corporate says the Patrol Method is a "component of the boy-led troop." That is evidence of massive lack of knowledge, and ignorance kills.

So you had "uninsured motorist" coverage, a standard option in regular fault insurance.

Stosh, you are not describing "no fault" according to both what I recall (when it was the inevitable wave of the future) and what I find on Google. The idea was to treat it like workers' comp. Your get damaged; your insurance pays. No lawsuits. No determination of fault.

So they wanted to be Boy Scouts.

Nice !

Fear not, Thomas, most troops here only know the Patrol method as a rumor.

I thought in a no fault state your own insurance covered you? That would make you . . . .

Hello, Thomas. Tell us more. Were there outlaw Wolf Cubs and Girl Guides before B-P decided to have such things officially?

Just found this at Andy's place: "Dear Andy, I’m concerned about a Scout in our troop trying to put together a “Capture the Flag†war game under the “disguise†of it looking like an orienteering activity. Is there a definitive BSA rule I can refer to, so that we, the adult leaders, can stop this kind of military activity-type stuff once and for all? This same Scout is always pushing questionable activities, like paintball, for instance. He’s been told many times that these aren’t Scout-appropriate activities, but he doesn’t give up. He waits until he thinks he won’t be overheard and then urges the younger Scouts to say these are what they want to do. How do we put an end to this sort of stuff? (L.J., ASM)" Alas, poor lamb, he went to the wrong place: "Capture The Flag is hardly a “war game.†It’s actually an elaborate variation on the game of Tag, and it’s been played by Scouts for generations (I played it over 50 years ago, at Scout summer camp). There’s nothing inherently “military†about it, and it can be lots of fun because it’s based on teamwork and strategy as well as physical ability (lots of running!). As for paintball, as long as there are no human or other living targets (or simulations of same), paintball is a BSA-approved activity. Bull’s eye targets are completely permissible, but that’s where it stops. There’s no shooting at one another, under any circumstances. As for this Scout’s deviousness, this can stop if a general announcement to the entire troop is made about the kinds of activities they can choose to do, and those they’ll need to go somewhere else to do."

"They" is not a monolith. "They" say a "lock-in" watching movies is a "weekend campout." "They" are happy with that policy. "They" say it is not - that you sleep under stars or canvas or it's not a "campout." Bubbles at B.S.A.

For all of Bill's career in Scouting, there was an option for older boy patrols in a troop. Senior Scouts started in the 1920's Explorer Scouts started in 1933. In 1944, we had the second new exploring program - "Explorers" with the optional cool green uniform and a separate advancement system - Apprentice, Frontiersman, Woodsman, Ranger. At first, Explorers belonged to Explorer Troops, but soon there were Explorer Posts. Prior to 1949, older boys in a troop were "Senior Scouts B.S.A.." or "Explorers." From about 1949 to 1958, a boy became an Explorer at 14 and could simply remain in a regular patrol, join an Explorer Crew within the troop, or join an Explorer, Air Explorer, or Sea Explorer post or ship. An Explorer earned "Rating Strips" leading to Bronze, Gold, and Silver awards. Effective 1959, with the third new program for older boys, we had Senior Scouts in troops again, but the title "Explorer" and the cool green uniform were reserved for members of posts, and the special Exploring ranks, such as Silver Award," went away. A "Venturing patrol" is just "everything old is new again." Blink, and the Bronze, Gold, and Silver Awards flashed by again.

Heresy !

Twenty years is a good start. There is no need to discard aspirations on the grounds that they are unlikely to be achieved -- even most of the time. A Scout is . . . .. I am in favor of whatever patrols the Scouts are for. They need to figure it out. When a Webelos II den crosses over that got along well, then they almost always to want to stay together as a patrol, at least for a time. I have often seen mixed-age patrols work well where there is good leadership in the patrol. (And it's the adult responsibility to develop that leadership.) My first thirteen years in Scouting were in a troop with all (6) mixed-age patrols (with less choice for the two Explorer "crews" then allowed to exist within a troop). The PLC [actually the TLC] interviewed incoming Scouts, consulted with the SM, and told the newbies they were joining the X Patrol, subject to it being "a good fit." The main considerations were: 1) had he been recruited for a patrol; 2) did he have one or more friends in a given patrol. Moving was not common but was known to happen, and, since expected, didn't cause a fuss, The "good fit" in a team was the goal. Later, I spent over twenty-five years with a troop in the NSP Age, and the troop used the NSP. We were very careful about the Troop Guide (usually a former PL or someone thought to be future SPL material. Once, it was a former SPL.). The culture was that the Troop had gone on since 1908 and the new kids were the new blood that kept Troop 22 going. Senior leadership (boys) regularly reminded the relatively older Scouts that the new kids were important and praised them when they displayed that attitude (most of the time). What I think is wrong is adults playing upset the basket day once a year to have "balanced" patrols or frankly ignoring the boys' wishes becasue they "know better," "Friend" is a term of art. The degree of friendship varies. Friendship may come over time. But I have never seen a Scout happy in a patrol where he cannot name one person he regards as a "friend." Unless something has changed (and things change), B.S.A. suffers it's greatest loss from Webelos who fail to cross-over. It has been as high as 50% in some years. Over and over, we are told to use Den Chiefs, invite Cubs to troop activities, and just be nice - all antidotes for the fear of a 10-year-old when confronted by high school kids. Putting them in a group they want to join would appear to be good tactically. I hope Scouters and Scouts come where to get ideas from reasonable people who treat each outer reasonably.

What about a den crossing over where all the boys get along fine? If they are friendly, their age is secondary, yes? My first PL was 16 (Eagle) when I was 11. I didn't come from cubs. Was he my friend? He was friendly and kind. I thought he was fantastic - the big brother I never had, I never knew who decided I should be a Panther. I felt lucky to be in that patrol. The PL announced at the first meeting that I had "joined" the Panthers. Was there a Plan B if it didn't work? I suspect so. The SM was very big on Plan B. One new Scout settled in in the fourth patrol he "joined."

The three-kind-of-patrol method, taken literally, has no patrol for a Scout who does not make First Class and turns 12. "There are three kinds of patrols: new-Scout patrols, regular patrols, and Venture patrols. New Scout patrols are for 11-year-old Scouts.... Regular patrols are made up of Scouts who have completed their First Class requirements.... A Venture patrol is ... made up of Scouts 13 and older." On top of that, B.S.A. repeatedly says, and has said for 85 years, that a patrol is a group of friends, That means, beyond coaching the process, adults and the troop have no role to play - much less is there a role for bureaucrats in deciding who is in what patrol.. Good grief!

"The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration says 15-passenger vans with 10 or more occupants are three times more likely to roll over than ones carrying fewer than five passengers. That’s why all Scouters should take heed of this breaking BSA news: Effective Sept. 1, 2015, the use of 15-passenger vans manufactured before 2005 will no longer be allowed in connection with Scouting programs and activities. 15-passenger vans manufactured in 2005 or later may be used, as long as they are equipped with Electronic Stability Control and seat belts for all passengers and the driver. This applies to all vehicles, regardless of ownership (privately owned, owned by chartered organization, rentals, etc.)." Sounds like an "unauthorized activity." If so, you are on your own insurance-wise. But if it's not a Scout activity, at least the judge won't tell the jury that violation of the B.S.A. prohibition is evidence of negligence. You'll just have to hear abut the NHTSA study.

Can not post.

A problem is thinking that "they" is monolithic. What I see are committees which nether know much about Boy Scouting or communicate with one another. "They" also say: n “Scouting offers what boys want: outdoor adventures, being with their friends….†B.S.A. website, 2016 n “they self-select and they are friends….†B.S.A., Scouting blog, 2015 n “Scouts should be encouraged to invite their friends to join the troop and become a member of their patrol.†B.S.A. website, 2016 n “ ‘You set up a structure—six to eight Scouts—and let them figure it out,’ he says. n ‘Boys are going to want to stick together if you can use their friendships to put together a team.’ †B.S.A., Scouting (May-June 2012)(quoting child psychologist Dr. Brett Laursen ) "[A patrol is] . . . small groups of Scouts who camp together, cook together, play together, and learn together.†B.S.A.., Scouting.org (2016) “[The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.†B.S.A., Scouting.org (2016)[emphasis added] “[The patrol is] the place where boys learn skills together, take on leadership responsibilities, perhaps for the first time . . . . †B.S.A. Scouting.org, (2014) “Patrols are where Scouts learn citizenship at the most basic level. . . . †B.S.A., Scouting.org., (2016) “Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements. [emphasis added]†B.S.A., Scouting.org. (2016) At other times they will compete against those same patrols in Scout skills and athletic competitions.†B.S.A., website (2016) “Your Boy Scout troop is made up of patrols, with each patrol’s members sharing responsibility for the patrol’s success.†B.S.A., The Boy Scout Handbook, 13th Ed. (2016) at p. 25 Then we have the "three types of patrols" bunch; whoever put on Scouting.org that the adults, including all the commissioned Scouters, the troop committee, COR, and (for Heavan sake!), Unit commissioner, are all equal participants with the Scouts in planning the annula program, (more "efficient"); and whoever decided that the Patrol method is a component of the "boy led troop." I said the words are all there. In substance they are. However, there are these other, conflicting words. So it's fair to ask, Who speaks for B.S.A. Scouting?