TAHAWK

Predictions are best written on the wind.

Indeed, Satan (and his minions) were sued in Federal District Court, although the case was dismissed for lack of service of process on the defendants. Anyone can sue about anything. If only the loser had to pay the legal fees of the defendants.

Serious statistic. What is the source? Not easy to find information of something almost thirty years in the past. Also, I find no evidence that the changes in SM basic training thirteen years after gender restrictions were totally removed were caused by an influx of female Scouters. For me, the biggest change was that the syllabus language of "Working with Youth - the Patrol Method" lost all references to the Patrol Method, the word "patrol" appearing only once. At the time, we were given an explanation but it boiled down to "This is better." As you know, the big outdoor program deemphasis was in 1972 -- in the all male all the time days. It is said that blunder was reversed when BSA realized the damage and brought Bill back but some aspects of the "Improved Scouting Program" lasted until 1989. Outdoor program training as changed in 2001 had the same objectives (Scoutcraft through First Class level) as the former course, albeit with wholly inadequate time allowed to teaching/learning (a BSA tradition) - the same objectives as the first version of Wood Badge for that matter (with a solid week to cover the material). I never said "it" will "never get better," whatever "it" is. I hope. As for the Patrol Method, those few at National Council who seemingly were trying around 2000 to do away with the Patrol Method are gone, although ignorance about the Patrol Method remains. I have already posted that the Scouting.org article that gave over annual planning almost entirely to adults, including the Troop Committee, COR and UC, has been recently stricken. The Handbook says a troop is a collection of patrols. Real advocates for the Patrol Method are around, and in high positions. I never thought it was hopeless and see signs of progress.

Barry, if you are talking about lack of outdoor program experience, that is not a problem restricted to female Scouters. As more and more male Scouters are products of the deemphasis of the outdoor program in BSA Scouting, they too lack experience. Add the lack of any official BSA outdoor skills program beyond the "Introduction" in IOLS, and the thread is reinforced. Decades ago, almost every house had a hand axe and chopping block because wood was used to start coal furnaces. Every male from age 8-10 on carried a "pocket knife" well into the 60's. - 17 of 17 in my Third Grade class when the teacher asked if anyone could sharpen her giant pencils. There were no electric grill starters. Scouts were expected to cook over an open wood fire well-into the 80's, with "chemical stoves" expressly discouraged in BSA literature. Women could learn outdoor skills, as could men, if they were taught in any meaningful way. I was told last weekend that any expectation that a Scout could light a fire with one "kitchen" match in dry, still, sunny weather using dry pine needles and dry pine cones was "silly." "It's cold" (28F). This statement by a 11-year SM. Male. Marine. The female Scouter helping to judge the event, thought otherwise - thought it was a fair test to get 100% of the points. But she had far more experience in the outdoors. Judging all male Scouters by this guy would have been prejudice. We are woefully short of adult help.

I was taught by my faith that God allows evil so mankind has free will to select good or evil. Religions decide what is good and what is evil. Some of those religions allow that their pronouncements may be in error, and some do not. Some religions disagree with your conclusion and say that the biological female who believes she is a male is simply mistaken, as is a person who might believes that you are a teapot. Those with whom you disagree may be wrong, but they do not think so, and people act according to their perception of reality. Ask the people at the North American Man/Boy Love Association.

"accept"?

We discriminate against females if we exclude them or four-year-olds who want to join. Ditto for children who refuse to take the Oath or promise to follow the Law - or, indeed, follow the Law. You doubtless mean discrimination on some particular basis, and you ought to say what that basis is is you hope to communicate your position with any clarity.

In the History Department I was called a "fascist" (when I felt "Uncle Ho" was as likely a liar as the U.S. government) and at Law School a "red" ('cause I thought advising a hypothetical client to stand his ground and shoot down "looters" was poor legal advice when retreat was possible). Seems to be a matter of point-of-view. Labels don't bother me all that much. How about you?

Nationally, in much of our social and political discourse, we have gone from "I disagee" to "You're wrong" to "You're evil." Less so here. Interestingly, last time I looked, the group that "buys" the "It's like race" argument is least likely to include persons of color.

"I believe now, just as then, you're on the wrong side by believing either decision is the wrong move." I believe he refers to the gay decision and the transgender decision. While I am troubled by the religious and practical implications of the decisions and whether they signal a surrender to PC over values rather than truly value-driven decisions, I do not know that they represent a surrender to PC, whatever I fear or suspect. That I disagree with someone's decision does not make me the final arbiter of all things moral, ethical, or religious. I am only a single, imperfect being possessed of only the limit knowledge that I think I have. Who made the decision? By what process? What consideration was given to those in Scouting as a group? Is it true that the position of the majority was rejected? What are the implications for future decisions?

How did you discover this? Was there a vote? Who voted? Opinion Pole? Inquiring minds want to know.

In my oldest council, the lists were kept by district "Merit Badge Deans" on their own computers. They gathered the information from council and other sources, such responses to questioning at roundtables and district events. The lists were printed out in hard versions and distributed at district events AND were available on district websites. They would contact you each year to see if there should be any changes in your listing or if you knew of any prospects who might agree to serve in that capacity. When BSA imposed the new "privacy policy" a couple of years ago, the district-created lists stopped being kept. Now, the only list is the restricted-access list at Council. The SE at the time said he had no explanation for the change in policy and was aware of no complaints from Counselors about being contacted by Scouts regarding MB work - hardly a surprise. As a measure of the reliability of the council list, until recently I was listed as having completed SM training in 1910 and being a District Chairman of a district for three years before I was born and before such a district existed. In fact, every single entry on my record was incorrect.

Then BSA is not guided by its constituents or "core constituency."

God needed Ten Commandments. BSA needs hundreds. Makes it tough to teach "health and safety" at IOLS with a straight face. What legal commentators know is that excessive numbers of rules damages respect for all rules. Our latest program guy at council dumped the camp "127 Thou Shall Nots" accumulated by his (fired) predecessor in favor of the Oath and Law ! Just one of the many steps he took to totally turn around the summer camp program from near death to filled to capacity in four years. Sadly, BSA is trending in the other direction - at high speed.

All the factors are identified above: summer camp MB mills; troop lists; looking for the easy way out (Did anyone mention district or Council "Merit Badge Midways" or the like? ) I have been a MB Counselor for a long time, and the work gradually dried up. I have never had to do YPT more than once every two years despite holding multiple unit, district, and council jobs. ( The online version testing for YPT screams "slapdash." Which of the correct or which least incorrect answer are they looking for? ) BSA's decision to sharply restrict access to MB counselor lists on the grounds that MB counselors would be offended by being contacted by candidates is just nuts. Furthermore, the imaginary issue would be solved by having the counselor paperwork contain his/her agreement to the publication of the list and receipt of contacts from candidates. Once again, the people in the "risk management" "bubble" are operating without regard to the "business" as a whole.

"Moving to another troop was mentioned earlier. I think that's just a temporary fix. It's a change of scene, but the program is still the same. Interest will still wane eventually. " This is only true of the other troops has an equally weak program. In my experience, troops are not the same. There is an entire range from wonderful to awful in the area where I Scout. Of course, practical problems may overcome attended a good troop. Wood Badge does not teach the Patrol Method. It "models" the method, which works best for those who already know what the method is - a decided minority since BSA has not coherently taught the method in any official syllabus in decades and often publishes statements or practices that are directly contrary or implicitly contrary to the method (See "Journey to 'Excellence'.") . That is, Wood Badge uses the DGE teaching method, omitting "explain" for people who, largely, do not have much of a clue. As a result, and as you say, Wood Badge is sadly not even close to the answer for returning to Boy Scouting form the "troop method." That is really too bad given what could be accomplished. OP, how about starting a separate Boy Scout Patrol? BSA will require you to register it as a "troop," but Boy Scouting started out a independent patrols, something BSA allowed for into the 1960's - chartered "Neighborhood Patrols."

Who are the "constituents" for BSA? Not automatically the families from whom the Scouts come.

Adults Association is males modeling Scouting values, and in that way, leading by influence - an accepted part of the adult role since Scouting began. We disagree about the level of lassiez faire to be applied. But better your way that the new norm of adults acting as PLs and SPLs.

One of our cats brought us a dead snake. Our world went on. I hadn't thought of that incident for years. It was just a cat being a cat.

In many respects it is. As respects raising boys to be men, which female leaders was supposed to kill forever, not so different. Would you settle for a single "very"?

Anyone here around when BSA suddenly decided to "main stream" what were then called "handicapped" Scouts? One day, I suddenly had two totally blind Scouts - brothers - whose unit had been broken up. As it turned out, the problems were few and the boys dealt with them in a way that made me proud and humble. But one family - really one mom - pulled its two Scouts out and moved to another troop because it was "unfair to burden" their patrol with the two blind Scouts. (One son had been held back a year in school so his athletic career would benefit in high school. Very competitive.) The SPL pronounced that the decision was "weird." A few years later, the "special" troop was OK again, rechartered, and the brothers went back by parents' decision due to transportation issues. Tears were shed.

I know the feeling. Thirty years ago, after the troop committee raised $54.00 in 3.5 years and would not come up with drivers for campouts - repeatedly (sometimes after we were many miles away and needed rides back), we voted with our feet and never looked back. It was the seventh time that troop had gone out of charter over the years and it never came back. The troop we joined is 109 years old September 15th. The CO remained indifferent throughout. The CO leadership made it clear that a meeting space (on most Mondays but not all) was the beginning and end of their responsibility despite the words on the papers signed each year and many service projects for the CO. (And the meeting space could never be the Dan Beard Room built with a donation by an Eagle parishioner specifically for Boy Scout meetings. That room was for other groups.) Indeed, this Methodist Church's "Youth Minister" told me to send Methodists Scouts wanting to work on their religious awards to the Episcopal Church down the road. He had "no time for that." Still, that little voice whispered "failure" to me for years, despite how happy the forty-two Scouts were in their new home base. Sometimes we just can't fix things.

Over the years, BSA has allowed some units -- and Councils -- to ignore supposedly mandatory program features. Nothing new about that. Has gone on for decades. We have had adult-run camping clubs, adult-run non-camping clubs, adult-run advancement mills, and the "youth-led troop method." Can't blame that on the last few years. The Motto, Slogan, Oath and Law are still the same as is the Handbook. Officially, those are the "values."

Hello Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. We need some positions filled on the Committee for Little Billy's Scout Troop. Which of the following will you fill so Billy has a Scout troop? Really? If enough people keep saying "no," we will have to shut down.

The LDS published response is that they are studying the implications but have been assured that it is a local option matter.