TAHAWK

Yes. People invent their own Scouting all the time. One SM told me "it's all optional" when I asked why i was that the PLs didn't know what patrol they were in. To each his or her own.

We were using the Junior Leader Orientation Workshop syllabus with the now heretical 11 Leadership Skills. "Welcome to Scouting's toughest job."

If it's not a big deal, why so much passion? I tend to follow rules. Scouting does not require us to love the rules. Opinions differ. I have an Eagle knot on one shirt. Scouting in multiple councils, I have not gotten around to sewing knots on my other shirts -- or much beyond CSPs. If I don't know my stuff, no patch or medal will do. If I know my stuff, who cares? One of my cohorts this week staffing training is First Class - and twenty years a US Army Ranger - which he never mentioned. (I knew him eight years before I found out.) Did the participants figure out that he is a good source? You betcha.

It may be a matter of scale. A few facilities suitable for girls may not be enough. On the other hand, new shower construction for yeasr has been on the basis of single occupant spaces. We do, after all, have Venturers using the same camps. And I still worry about change for the sake of PC.

Notice the big buck product routinely suggested in Scouting. Bleech! A Scout is thrifty.

Barry, Could you tell me more about the district-level youth patrol leader training? Is the syllabus available on line? Around here, that training disappeared by 2001 except to the extent that my former troop ran it several years and invited other troops send participants.

“ ‘You set up a structure—six to eight Scouts—and let them figure it out,’ he says. ‘Boys are going to want to stick together if you can use their friendships to put together a team.’ †B.S.A., Scouting (May-June 2012)(quoting child psychologist Dr. Brett Laursen ) No necessarily Webelos -> Scout groups Is it the quality of decisions, guided by the wisdom of someone other than their Troop Guide or adults in the coach/resource role, or allowing them to make decisions and process the results?

Anyone mention dusting socks with dog flea powder?

Bill Hillcourt was the official biographer of this BP fella', selected by Lady BP, perhaps because he was BP's close personal friend for decades and the most prolific Scouting author ever. Bill was also proclaimed "Scoutmaster to the World" by the Journal of Scouting History. Bronze Wolf recipient simply as a Scouter.

According to BSA today, if not collected in a single place, the Patrol Method means: 1. The patrol, not the troop, is the primary setting in which a boy experiences Boy Scouting. The necessary corollary is that the Scout is to spend most of his Scouting time in a Patrol context, doing patrol stuff: patrol meetings, patrol hikes, patrol Scoutcraft instruction.m "Occasionally" Scoutcraft may be taught at the Troop level. 2. A patrol is a small, largely self-selected team of friends who, under the leadership of a Scout they elect, experience a Scouting program they collectively plan. 3. The troop is . . the youth-led “league†- a boys' league - in which patrol teams play the “game†of Boy Scouting beyond the patrol level, as planned by the PLC under the chairmanship of the elected SPL. 4. Adults play the critical roles of: a. Safety officers b. Teachers of leadership c. Coaches and mentors d. Resources e. Examples of Values

Gee, might a crippled program have some relationship to falling membership?

qwarze, Those were examples that support my point - that BSA materials should not be regarded as beyond question. They were prepared by mere mortals. Course Directors and SPL face very different problems and excessive worship of BSA materials is only one of them. I personally do not see promotion of big-ticket mega events as a big problem. It has been going on for generations. I has not been a distraction in any troop I have Scouted with since 1954. Since few of the Scouts over those years ever experienced the big-ticket events (save for the 1960 Jambo that was attended by units, not contingents, and that was paid for in Troop 43 by our booming fireworks business) what was experienced and attractive was not mega-events becasue they were not experienced. Nor was there any mooning over missing them. The focus was on the Klondike or Camporee, our own troop-run summer camp every other year (sometimes backpacking summer camp), and for twenty-five Troop 22 years, Iron Chef Thursday at summer camp every year, whether at a council camp or our camp. The training materials, whatever their imperfections, do not pitch big-ticket events. They just do not. I am finishing preparations for every session of combined Scoutmaster Specific and IOLS 'cause I will be presenting them all at least once at camp this Summer, and what you describe is not mentioned even once. The "high point" described is summer camp.

"I'm open minded, but youth level courses are very limited by the course directors. After being a course developer for both youth and adult leadership courses, I personally would rather develop a patrol method course for adults so they can take what they learn back to their units because what the scouts learn really doesn't matter if it isn't supported by the adult leaders." [emphasis added] Adults are the teachers or, more likely lately, the destroyers of true Boy Scouting But you and I are talking about different "it"s - different issues. Everyone experiences a course differently because he filters what he thinks he hears, sees, and experiences through their own fairly unique combination of experiences and beliefs - and absorbs (or not) by means of his personal abilities to absorb and understand information and experience. [standard, non-PC English usage. Yes I know we have female Scouters.] The rationale for "the Syllabus, the whole Syllabus, and nothing but the Syllabus" is the unattainable goal of every participant having the same experience and "getting" the same message. They will not and do not. Some adults come back from Wood Badge confirmed in their belief in the adult-run troop because that is what they saw and experienced. Then there are the errors and contradictions in the Holy Writ or contradictions with other authoritative, and often newer, BSA pronouncements. We used to swear to deliver "the message BSA intends" and "use" the BSA course materials. That left flexibility to deal with incorrect information, contradictions, and new learning. Surely BSA did not intend to teach dish-washing that violated the health codes in all fifty states, even if that what was in the syllabus (and Handbook). No such room to maneuver today in the minds of some "powers that be." 1+1 = 4 because it says so in the syllabus, even if elsewhere the same syllabus says 1+1 = 2 or BSA says 1+1 = 2 in some other publication. Notice the unannounced shift in the original 13th edition Handbook back to unsafe dish-washing from the tardy correction in the 12th Edition, then back to the legally-mandated method as of the 2015 "printing" of the 13th. (BSA "printings" have often been new editions over the years.) Sorry, this does not lead to the rationale conclusion that BSA is the ultimate source of all wisdom. If I ever had that opinion, it went flitting away when I read that it was bad practice to drink water when thirsty (Suck on a pebble instead.) or saw the totally incorrect illustration of how to tie the triangle lashing that kept appearing and disappearing over the decades. And the official line on Duty to God and reverent in the Scoutmaster Position-Specific syllabus. A very clear line is drawn - contradicted by other clear and not withdrawn official statements by BSA on the topic and, especially, contradicted by BSA's behavior over decades and to this day. Which meets the requirements? Atheists Some atheists Open atheists Some open atheists Polytheists Some polytheists Deists

I don't know why you think that. He retired in 1965 and came out of retirement in 1978, and the new Handbook came out in 1979. 1978 Distinguished Eagle Scout 1979 Bill begins to tour the U.S. and World as ambassador for BSA , usually accompanied by BSA employees (until 1992). (Attended Greater Cleveland Council Wood Badge Breakfast in 1992 to promote Wood Badge.) 1980 Silver Buffalo. Citation reads "The Voice of Scouting" 1980 Publication of Bill's latest version of the Patrol Leader's Handbook 1985 BSA in Scouting said Bill was "“the foremost influence on development of the Boy Scouting program.†1985 Bronze Wolf (endorsed by BSA) 1986 Allowed to run throw-back WB course based on original Course because he wanted to. 1993 Scouting: "No one modern-day Scouter had as far-reaching influence [on Scouting]" 1993 Jamboree - special tribute to Bill in program 1993 BSA establishes "Special Tribute Fund" in his name 2001 Scouting publishes tribute article. It seems to me that the highest honors came in the second "life" in Scouting, post the Improved Scouting Program (1972) All those who might have been embarrassed by his success almost forty years ago are dead. 2007 BSA publishes Wilderness Survival Merit Badge pamphlet with dangerously incomplete advice on treating anaphylactic shock, making wild water safe, prioritizing survival needs, outdoor clothing, and protection from sunburn. BSA plotting to kill Scouts or just not very good at their job?

A dear friend, Gone Home last October, attended an experimental Course years ago. Bill was the "Scoutmaster." My friend recalled 1987 near Dayton. I now have documentation showing the Course, EC 336 X, was at Camp Hook, Dan Beard Council (Cincinnati) in June, 1986. That information has resulted in finding the names of nine other Learners, all from Kentucky. One of them tells me the course was extensively filmed by National, which seems to have mislaid all records about the course. I need to dig further. This was the Omega to Bill's Alpha. I hope to help place one more anchor for the memory of our greatest Scouter.

Heck, some adults appear to think Scouting would be jolly fun - like a card-club or bowling league - but for those darn kids.

Stosh, BSA has not told anyone - 1,2,3,4,5 - what the Patrol Method is since Nixon was President. I suggest that this behavior has consequences. What would the adults do if: 1) They were told what it is ? 2) They were told it is mandatory, which it clearly is not now in practice? 3) There were incentives to use it ? 4) There were disincentives for not using it? Even as gentle as publicly not getting unit recognition like the ones that do use it. "I'd favor a written warning with a time limit. We have too many units and too few Boy Scout troops. We will never know until BSA talks the talk AND walks the walk. It does neither.

White tail population down 4,000,000 from 2013-2016. Worse around here (NE Ohio) where a boom in Coyote population is leading to heavy predation of fawns and even adults. Deer harvest in Ohio peaked in 2005.

Hulkster, BSA has not defined the Patrol Method in decades. However, BSA says a number of definitive things about it, here and there, that can be brought together and summarized -- and should be brought together and summarized -- in training and elsewhere in BSA literature. Meanwhile, some at BSA say wholly inconsistent things: the Patrol Method is optional and may be disregarded if it does not produce a well-oiled machine of a troop (as if it was about troops) OR the Patrol Method is one aspect of the "boy-led Troop" (as if there were a "troop method") This behavior led the head of training to say that the Patrol Method had been "mislaid." There really should be no debate at least as to what we aspire to achieve, but the inept communication and any lack of dedication to delivering what we promise leave room for some to imagine that what they are creating is Boy Scouting. Can a Staff overcome the limitations of the Syllabus? Sure, but we wouldn't want to talk that way,would we? Holy Writ, and all that, internal inconsistencies and all - to the letter - "must." And if we are supposedly committed to EDGE, where in blue blazes is the explanation that it to precede all else? Given a good explanation, and 45 minutes is plenty, even with discussion, then the almost total departure from the Patrol Method in the supposed "demonstration" might be at least understood to be departures. The Keepers of the Mysteries need to improve their performance while there is something left to save.

Wood Badge may do many things, depending on the quality of the Staff. It teaches the Patrol Method hardly at all and emphasizes the "troop method." Let's bounce Wood Badge III against BSA's EDGE method. EXPLAIN In what session are the elements of the Patrol Method explained to the participants? As those elements have not appeared coherently in BSA literature in decades, it is hardly surprising that the answer is "Nowhere." Example: The Scout primarily experiences Scouting in the context of his patrol. DEMONSTRATE Are the patrols largely self-selected groups of friends? Do the participants spend most of their time in separate patrol activities? Does learning primarily take place in a patrol setting vs a troop setting? Do the participants democratically plan the program for their respective patrols and, through their elected representatives, for the troop as well? Do the participants elect the SPL? Are the PLs elected by the other members of their respective patrols? Who primarily directly leads, the PLs and the SPL they elect or the adult analogs, the Staff? Does Troop 1 exist for the administrative convenience of the patrols or visa-versa? GUIDE You cannot "guide" what is not allowed to happen. I am told that "guidance" happens in the PLC meetings. Not only is that guidance primarily about troop leadership, which is secondary to patrol leadership in Boy Scouting, but most of the decisions have already been made by the "adults." After all, the "adults" know best. The remit of the PLC is to decide limited issues from among a choice set supplied by the "adults." (Do I propose that learners or trainees plan their training? That would be interesting to try, but no. Just don't claim this training primarily or even significantly trains in the Patrol Method by example or by doing unless you are prepared to show how that is true.) ENABLE What are the PLs enabled to do as leaders as a percentage of what is going on? One of them is PL when their patrol plans its "backpacking" menu and patrol gear (See the wagon-loads of gear rumbling down the road.). Hardly planning the "what, where, and when," only planning the details of what the "adults" have planned. He or she could also lead planning the patrol project, the "adults" already having decreed that there should be a "project" and the timing of it. The patrol's choice how to comply with the "adults" vague charge OR, inconceivably in this authoritarian setting, whether to face the consequences of not obeying the "adults." Far from a "school of democracy." I submit that the claim that Wood Badge teaches the Patrol Method is indefensible. A far better argument is that It teaches the adult-run troop method. It teaches other things and those primarily by lecture, a path we have been warned against since B-P started the hike. More school than learning by doing - more school than Scouting. The "mountain top" is far away. It does serve as a very good tool for networking and the topics taught are significant and useful, just in isolation from the Patrol Method (and, really, the Outdoor Method). Perhaps the current review will turn Wood Badge into something greater.

Only in theory does a Patrol Leader lead. Not to repeat too much (as I repeat), BSA advocates the Patrol Method, has not explained it in its literature in decades, does not measure its USE in Journey to whatever, provides no incentive to the adults to allow its use, provides no disincentive for adults who do not use it, does not train youth in it short of the minority experience of NYLT, and not completely even there, and does not train adults in what it is since the 1970's. If it happens, it's by chance, luck, and the Blessing, not by design backed by behavior.

Polio - vaccine - now. But in the 1940's an early 1950's there was no vaccine. Parents were scared to death. Kids died or were crippled for life. This virus - none. Aren't you being a little hard on parents?

Local incumbent carrier, mostly Ohio Bell telephone Company, DBA "AT&T", has to provide the service by order pf the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio. Plenty of spare parts from sets pulled out and not junked.

That's two for RememberSchiff. 1,200,000 more in Illinois alone.

They stopped being profitable. In Ohio, one is required in each exchange area (first three numbers of seven). I know where ours is - 3.5 miles away in the lobby of a Giant Eagle market.