TAHAWK

Who is making a big deal out of it? Who is "we" and who cares what "we" think?

They can be helped in their prep with material supplied in text and video before the training event. "Welcome to BALOO training! It is the Cub Scout leader training required for any Cub Scout den or pack outdoor event, including pack camping overnighters and Webelos den overnighters. This training should be presented by council or district level training teams as needed. Councils may decide to require periodic refreshers based on local situations. BALOO training is comprised of two components—an online component and a practical, hands-on component. Both components must be completed to qualify as a “TRAINED†Cub Scout outdoor leader." If the training is fun - i.e. properly put on - they will feel it was worth their time. If it is poorly done - to be endured - of course they will feel it was a waste. If campers do not like the meals they receive at camp, do we reduce the number of meals or do the necessary to get better meals served?

A camp ranger of the Boy Scouts of America Avondale Scout Camp in Clinton [Louisiana] was fatally shot Monday morning, said Gary Mertz, the CEO/Scout Executive of the Istrouma Area Council, Boy Scouts of America. "This is an extremely difficult time for our Scouting family," Mertz wrote in a statement Monday afternoon. "We are sad to confirm the death of one of our Camp Rangers at the Avondale Scout Reservation." Brad DeFranceschi, 48, was killed in a shooting about 11:15 a.m. Monday in front of his home on the camp's property, said East Feliciana Sheriff Jeff Travis. Mertz confirmed that no other scouts were harmed in the incident. "We are working closely with law enforcement as they investigate this matter," Mertz wrote." While we are exploring the specifics of this tragic incident, we offer our deepest condolences to the victim and his family. Please join us in keeping all those affected in your thoughts and prayers." DeFranceschi had worked at the campgrounds for the last 17 years and had become an cornerstone in their community, said Nolan Reynerson, who has worked and volunteered with Boy Scouts for much of his life. "He put a smile on and wore his uniform proudly and was there for every event," Reynerson, 34, said. He said DeFranceschi went beyond the typical duties of a ranger of . . . more than 1,600 acres worth of campground maintenance and upkeep —and was also heavily involved and invested in the programming and events. "He cared about the kids and did a lot for young men — and young ladies," Reynerson said. " He really cared a lot about the program, as much as he did taking care of the property." He said DeFranceschi's son and daughter were involved in the scouting program, and he would volunteer with their troops. He said DeFranceschi was married. The ranger also transformed the food served at the camp, employing skills he learned as a cook on a submarine with the U.S. Navy, Reynerson said. Baton Rouge-area law enforcement are investigating [the shooting] . . . and its possible link to three other shootings [, two fatal within a 25-mile radius of each other since July] . . . authorities said.

"Patrol calendars": Careful, that shows an almost subversive tendency towards the PATROL Method. “Make the Patrol the unit ALWAYS, in and out, through thick and thin, for better and worse in victory and defeat, in games and on hikes, and in camp.†Bill Hillcourt, Handbook for Scoutmasters, B.S.A.(1936) "The patrol,. not the troop, is the primary setting for Boy Scouting." “[The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.†“[The patrol is] the place where boys learn skills together, take on leadership responsibilities, perhaps for the first time . . . . †“Patrols need to meet regularly to get their work done.†“Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements.â€[emphasis added] SOURCE: Boy Scouts of America, current statements as of October 8, 2017. So if all this is true . . . … what must be true about how Scouts are supposed to spend their time in Boy Scouting? Plan accordingly.

"Someone in my troop had told me that two of those who recommended you have to attend your BOR with you???" I can find no such requirement. Councils can be "different." They cannot add requirements. In fact, "The unit leader may remain in the room, but only to observe, not to participate unless called upon. The number of “observers†at a board of review should otherwise be minimized." [emphasis added] And since the candidate can have no role in selecting members of the board, these theoretical attendees, selected by the candidate, can only fall into the discouraged :observer" category.

Barry, Baloo is focused on outdoor program, including camping. It is the IOLS, if you will, for Cubbing - so much so that adding a couple of hours to IOLS covers Baloo (and OWL). The training you say Baloo should present is supposedly covered by "position specific" training for adults in Cubbing. What am I missing (again)?

Once, it was expected that every training session started with an assessment of what the "learners" already knew. The official syllabii so instructed. Somewhere/somewhen that went away - officially. Some of us still do it to guide the presentation on the fly and to identify teaching resources.

I am sure most of us have experienced Scouts not following good safety advice. On Summer at a council camp, dozens of Scouts ended up in local hospitals despite heroic efforts by the staff to keep them hydrated. Temps were in the upper 90's and relative humidity around 90. Seems the little dears didn't like the taste of camp water and the trading post had sold out of bottled water.

Whether BSA's rules were followed only impacts what evidence a jury or other fact-finder might hear. If the rules were violated, the jury can consider that fact in deciding if the defendants were negligent. Dead kid. Settle. A day hike is not a "trek" as defined in the G2SS or Trek Safely. "Treks can include such high-adventure activities as backpacking, canoeing, caving, horse packing, kayaking, mountain biking, mountaineering, rafting, sailing, and skiing. While some treks are as short as overnight, others last a week or two." The group involved might not have been a "crew." If a group goes to Philmont, some of them are not a "crew." The group was not prepared. Whose responsibility was it to have them prepared? I did a number of desert hikes and backpackers (used to be different activities) in the Mohave and high California deserts with no adults on the trail. (Stayed with cars at trail-head sometimes.) The Scoutmaster thought we were prepared. I guess we were. The outings were well planned and planning centered on water. In low humidity, if you have water you can easily stay cool. Looks like the area involved is much more humid - average afternoon in July - 34% RH

Just ordered a sissy-needs-comfort self-inflating air mattress (3" thick R 6.9 + "pillow" section) for 24% of MSRP and 40% of Amazon. "Comfort XL." Perfectly painless process. I was looking at another model, The "Flex," but they don't quote an R-value (even when you contact them by telephone), and that's an issue here if you are tent camping in January.

My home district has done an overnight as part of Baloo for years, The Baloo people could leave at 2 PM Saturday, but most elected to stay with the OWL people for the rest of the course, leaving Sunday. If training is fun, people have no problem taking it. If training is to be endured, it needs to take less time. The last may explain why the non-outdoor part of SM/ASM basic has been slashed.

Not interested.

"Back on subject. The idea of one huge council wide district is absurd. Some Adult leader training is best done online. Youth Protection is fine. But without districts, do they really want to get the entire council together for IOLS? That sounds like a nightmare to me. " I like districts. We have had council-wide or multi-district IOLS for fifteen years. Works fine.

Stosh on 27 September 2017 - 7:41, said: "Volunteers already have the heart of a leader, that's why these people are in the military serving their country. Scouts are not volunteers, they expect something from the organization. Volunteers only want opportunities to serve. Big difference. That's why so many youth programs have problems. Volunteers don't join an organization to be entertained and taken care of, they take care of others." We disagree - profoundly. Not all those who volunteer for the military have any desire to lead. Some want three squares and a bed. Some want to be led - to have structure in their chaotic lives. Scouts are volunteers. Neither you, I, nor their parents can force them to participate for long ("Mom, it's study for the math exam or attend the Scout meeting.") In massive numbers they walk away from weak program. They join to have fun. They are promised fun and adventure. It has been observed for centuries that leadership can be taught. Beyond safety, It is the primary job of the Scoutmaster, voluntarily assumed, to train Scout leaders, and if you have no faith in your primary mission, there is a problem. You will not convince me, or Bill at Home, otherwise.

The traditional model is that a patrol is a team, with each member having a job. In that job, he has leadership responsibility. This is, obviously, not what the Scouts usually get since the typical SM wouldn't know the Patrol Method if it smacked him or her in the chops. Why should they? BSA won't say what it is in any coherent way and has not done so in decades.

When he gets to College, he may find 20% of his grade depends on classroom participation. Not too soon to start getting him ready. Nice "safe" way to start.

Venturing leadership training - for Venturers - includes material on group dynamics and leadership. The quality of that material has varied over time and from publication to publication. Many Venturers first enter Scouting through Venturing. Many chronological adults have much to learn about leadership and group dynamics. I listened to a middle-level, very bright telephone company manager, age twenty-six, define "leadership" (which I asked him to do) as consisting solely of giving clear orders. "What else is there?" he asked. I did not approve his proposed termination of the employment of a twenty-seven year veteran employee (stellar previous evaluations), and we sent the manager off to a Blanchard leadership course - "Situational Leadership."

Stosh, it's a historic thing. The senior Patrol Leader ran the troop activities and his patrol. Then it became a separate office - Senior Patrol Leader. Since 1930, the SPL leads troop youth activities through the PLs and leads the troop leadership team ("TLC" or" PLC," depending when), with one vote in planning youth activities, subject to the IH's and Troop Committee's implicit veto power (Which they are trained to rarely use - if they are trained at all.). The SPL does not directly lead a patrol as, except for matters of safety, the SM is not to directly lead boys. Obviously, the SPL does not "run" all aspects of the troop. The IH is the highest authority in a Boy Scout Troop, not the SPL, subject to the authority of the National Council to remove or decline a charter. I have seen far more SMs than SPLs think they were the top authority. Of course, if it's done wrong, it's not like that, anymore than it's like that if the adults act like leaders of youth activities. The CO is a customer in the sense that it is supposedly receiving services/benefits - supposedly "Boy Scouting," which it has supposedly decided is consistent with its values. Or it may make up its own program, as many SMs do, pretend it's Boy Scouting, and hope someone is getting benefits. The Scouts are customers in the sense that they too receive services from the program, or so we hope. BSA absolutely "markets" to the Scouts (and the parents). Customers don't (typically) own the service provider and not all customers pay. If you like "beneficiaries" or "clients" that's fine too. They are also customers in that they can take or leave the proffered services - "vote with their feet" if they don't like the "product" and have done so in large numbers. Not a perfect analogy but not strained either. So far as I know, Boy Scouting as a unit, council, or national organization, unlike say public school teachers, is not regarded as in loco parentis in any state, so it does not fill a parental role. Obviously scouts don't own their parents (the unit or the CO) and visa-versa. Minors cannot make contracts except with leave of court - in all fifty states. (Nor can their parent make binding contracts for them.)

"The patrol method is designed for young leaders to be able to handle a group of boys in a learning experience. Youth of the boys' age (according to BP) can handle 6-8 boys effectively. How then can an SPL handle 30-40 boys when professional teachers can't handle a classroom of 20-25? " The SPL is supposed to deal with the PL's and the warrant officers - QM and the like. If he wants something involving the Bear Patrol, he goes to the Bear Patrol PL. And I know you know that. So the SPL "handles" fewer boys than a PL in the typical troop - IF IT WERE RUN BY THE PATROL METHOD. That is, a Boy Scout Troop instead of this other thing.

"I cannot agree that teaching is a slippery slope. Older scouts using the EDGE method to show a younger scouts how to pitch a tent, build a fire, use a map and compass, build a pioneer gateway etc., is in my opinion, exactly what scouting is about. In fact it is part of the requirements for rank advancement to teach. If a scout sees a another scout struggling to set up tent improperly he should step in and offer assistance. 'Let me explain to you about setting up your tent. Now I'll show you Now you try it. Good, you have it, now pass it along.." After 52 years working with youth in Scouting (and many years in youth sports coaching), I would respectfully suggest that consciousness on the part of the supposed learner of a need to learn is a precondition to successful teaching. "But, he doesn't have it. The thing about human memory is, it forgets! And be it one skill or another, it will be forgotten. If all that was used is EDGE, the student will be left unlearned and totally dependent on his instructor. A scout must not first be explained a skill, or shown a skill, or condition muscle memory to do a skill ... He must be shown a reference about a skill and, to the best of his ability, read it!!! That way, the teaching of his instructor has some permanence beyond the bounds of human memory. The EDGE method falls woefully short in that department. <Rant over, for more see http://scouter.com/i...e-it/?p=304641> It's not book work per se that scouts find stifling. It's book work that doesn't "come alive." I think some of the girls who are interested in BSA picked up the Boy Scout Handbook or Boy's Life, taught themselves a few skills, and concluded "This is fun. More please!" I agree with most of the observations that you make, but I think this is a whiff. 1. A person may be as good a reference as any book or video, and often is better, especially if a respected leader (by which I mean youth, as opposed to "Scouter" or "adult."). A human resource can react to the learner's reaction and answer the learner's actual questions in the there and then with no need to anticipate or assume. (This is not to denigrate in any way having Scouts find out about things themselves - a different issue. But see my comment above about a learner's recognition of an opportunity to learn.) So how to learn about building survival fires? A day with Lofty Wiseman (lead SAS survival instructor for seventeen years) in the filed with the right kit or a day with How to Survive in the Woods? 2. EDGE expressly involves making the learner independent of the teacher. It expressly contemplates the learner, having learned, acting independently of the teacher and only referring to the teacher as a resource at the learner's initiative - as he might refer back to a book or video. 3. What cements skills in the experience of, at least, many skills teachers is the learner using the skills, not the explanation or consulting any reference. That would be Guide and Enable. We used to call this the "Application Phase" when Bill was the chief Scout Skills authority for BSA. 4. What I see Scouts disinterested about is knowledge that seems irrelevant -- the knot to be learned for advancement but with no use thereafter. That is like learning random sequences of letters and numbers. So NOT "You must learn this cool knot to advance" BUT "You can use this cool knot to build your survival shelter on the Wilderness Survival Campout." - followed by that use actually happening. (Throw those tent rope adjusters away!) People that are not good at EDGE would probably not be good at what came before. At least EDGE contains in it Bill's "Never do for a Scout . . ." concept and "Explain" can easily be the "Guided Discovery Experience" of back then.

0_ __0

How to insure they are in a patrol with their friends?

Would it be more helpful if BSA told them? BSA says one thing and promotes something else entirely. E.G.: a "lock-in to watch videos" counts as a "weekend campout" for "Journey to Excellence [sic]" Ditto for having Scouts in POR's vs actually having them lead ("Boy Scouting")

So he spends lots of time in activities with his patrol - some separate from the other patrols that make up the troop. Good. You had only mentioned going with his "troop," so I misunderstood. My apologies.

"But then you can't control where the scout goes to camp either. My son, due to our existing family routine and traditions, often misses going to camp with his pack or troop and has many times tagged along with another troop, even in another district." He apparently feels little connection with his patrol. The troop exists for the administrative convenience of the patrols that make it up.