TAHAWK

Helpful, you raise a good point. It is also sometimes defined as resistance to civil government. Here is another definition: "Civil disobedience is the active, professed refusal of a citizen to obey certain laws of the state, and/or demands, orders, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power. Civil disobedience is sometimes defined as having to be nonviolent to be called civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is sometimes, therefore, equated with nonviolent resistance." But did I communicate what I meant, even if I used a definition that you do not prefer?

We, however, don;t have the authority to issue repros. Note that I did not say I thought this is important. Again, I wish BSA had a uniform. Since there is no uniform, I don't get excited about poorly communicated "uniform" rules.

You too? We all live in a World we did not create. We can barely influence our little corner. It was BSA's argument last year, and the reality is what it is.

Repros would not be "once official" but never official.

In this case, the Article and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America specifically incorporate the federal Charter and declare that it is controlling over any- thing to the contrary published by anyone: "General Clause 1. These Bylaws shall be consistent with the Charter. The Rules and Regulations shall be consistent with the Charter and the Bylaws. In the event of any conflicts or inconsistencies, the Charter shall govern primarily and the Bylaws secondarily. Specifics Clause 2. All statements contained in official publications of the Boy Scouts of America, its local councils and affiliates, including (but not limited to) handbooks, pamphlets, instructions, magazine articles, bulletins, manuals, and letters, which may, from time to time, be issued for clarification or explanation of official language shall be consistent with the language and intent of the Charter, the Bylaws, and the Rules and Regulations. Any contradictory or inconsistent language is unauthorized and without effect." So not so "mere" in this case. If we read the Charter to have the plain meaning of its words, the "historic decision" of the Board of Directors is "unauthorized and without effect." As for the effect of the program changes since 1916, that is another topic and one that that has already flamed its way through pages of posts.

OK. Not all peaceful expression of opinion is civil disobedience. But for all of my undoubted errors, and there have been many, I didn't say all peaceful expression was civil disobedience. What I said was, "Stosh, when you, all peaceful, are ordered to disburse by lawful authority and don't disburse, that's civil (Note "civil") disobedience - by definition. Compare to Ferguson-style violent disobedience. Neither matches the Victorian B.S.A. definition of "obedient." So, DT, peaceful expression of opinion contrary to existing law, is civil disobedience - disobedient but civil. I think there is a place for it in Scouting values, or why do we hold up Dr. King as an icon? I what should we say about Washington, Jefferson, and Hamilton. They were not even peaceful - civil - they used violence. Do we tell the Scouts that they had the wrong values in that regard, being disobedient to lawful authority? "Martin Luther King Jr., the American civil rights hero whose life we celebrate every year around this time, was a Boy Scout. Just typing that gives me chills. It’s a fact that should make Scouts everywhere remarkably proud. I had read rumors online claiming MLK was a Boy Scout, but this week I got confirmation: From age 11 to age 13, King was registered as a member of Troop 151 in Atlanta. The handwritten troop charter renewal forms, scans of which you can see below, also include the name of King’s father, Martin Luther King Sr., who was the troop’s chartered organization representative. The troop met at Ebenezer Baptist Church, now part of the Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site. Both King men served as pastors there. I was pleased to learn Scouting is still alive and well at Ebenezer today. Troop and Pack 213 meet there every other Sunday. Those young Scouts must feel so proud to meet at the same spot where one of our nation’s greatest heroes once donned the Boy Scout uniform." Boy Scouts of America, Bryan on Scouting (01/15/2015)

Sp they say. I am looking for a R&W for my community. I have lots for McDonaldville. Want a burger?

I am quoting the charter for the purpose of pointing out that it expressly charters a program for boys. "boys" "them" =boys The consequences of ignoring the express terms of the charter deserve some thought by some competent person. Arguably, BSA loses its chartered status when it ignores so fundamental a term of its charter. It could be argued that the current policy to a gender-neutral program shift is ultra virus - beyond the power of the corporation's leadership to validly do as a federally-chartered organizatuion. Indeed, that argument has already been made, by B.S.A., om 2016: ""The Boy Scouts of America told CBS2 via email that allowing girls to join the organization would go against the group’s original charter, created in 1916. 'The Boy Scouts of America was chartered by Congress in 1916 to serve boys and young men across the nation through the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts programs,' the organization said in a statement. The organization says to change the standard Boy Scout program would 'go outside the bounds' of their charter." So BSA needs to turn in it's federal charter.

The name of our new council was selected from a list of suggestions by Scouts and relates to where we are, geographically. "Lake Erie Council" - from Sandusky Bay to Conneaut. Others on the short list: Northeast Ohio; Greater Western Reserve (You would need to know some U.S. history to understand that one.); Greater Cleveland (the name of virtually the same area as a BSA "district" in 1912). Of course, if you don't know where Lake Erie is, and most Americans do not, you are as uninformed as those who don't know that "Three Rivers" is a traditional name for the Pittsburgh area, home of the Three Rivers Council (and the Steelers' "Three Rivers Stadium") (This is an issue not as important to me as our inept lords and masters blowing our Congressional charter by removing the "Boy" from Boy Scouts of America. )

Sec. 30901. Organization Federal Charter. - Boy Scouts of America (in this chapter, the ''corporation'') is a body corporate and politic of the District of Columbia. Domicile. - The domicile of the corporation is the District of Columbia. Perpetual Existence. - Except as otherwise provided, the corporation has perpetual existence. Sec. 30902. Purposes The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

Stosh, when you, all peaceful, are ordered to disburse by lawful authority and don't disburse, that's civil (Note "civil") disobedience - by definition. Compare to Ferguson-style violent disobedience. Neither matches the Victorian B.S.A. definition of "obedient." There ought to be express acknowledgement of the place for disobedience in proper values. Otherwise the missiles are launched in "Crimson Tide."

B.S.A. is one of many Scouting organizations that appeared in the U.S.A. after BP's books hit the streets in January, 1908, and hardly the first. I would be surprised if B.S.A. could say which troop was the first started under its auspices or first chartered with it, but the first Scout troop predtaed the B.S.A. Ninwty-nine troops were in existence in the area that became the Cleveland District of B.S.A. when B.S.A. arrived in Cleveland in 1912, including five claiming to be Cleveland Troop 1. The 1st Glasgow Scout Group in Scotland holds the earliest known registration certificate, dated 26 January 1908, issued by the Scouting Association. "Burnside, in south-central Kentucky, is believed to be home to the first Boy Scout troop in the United States. In 1908, two years before the Boy Scouts of America was officially organized, Mrs. Myra Greeno Bass organized a local troop of 15 boys, using official Boy Scout materials she had acquired from England. A sign at the edge of town declares Burnside "Birthplace of Boy Scouts of America", and an official state historical society marker commemorates the troop. Burnside is now part of the Blue Grass Council. Boy Scouts of America Troop 1 in Frankfort, Kentucky was established in 1909 by Stanley A. Harris. There has been a long-standing belief that this was the very first Boy Scout troop in the United States. ... Troop 1 was originally formed under the British Boy Scouts and the charter was destroyed in a fire around 1920. Nonetheless, Troop 1 is still active and is sponsored by the First Christian Church of Frankfort, Kentucky."

'Cause you have to sew them on. No choice now. we have a new council name - for months. However, new CSPs are arriving in the Scout Shop under 100 a week. Great business plan. So off to ScoutStuff, where CSPs are not listed by alphabetical - or any other discernible - order. And you find after searching six at a time in random order that the old, obsolete CSP is for sale, as are [at a $.50 discount] the CSPs for the two councils that went away, but NOT the one with the new council name.

Stosh, I asked our SE and the BSA Store Manager about this issue of old uniform parts last Tuesday, and they both said without hesitation that mixing and matching is perfectly OK. Besides, nothing is finer than frustrating the Uniform STASI over relatively minor issues.

On the other paw, BSA has held up Dr. Martin Luther King as an example of proper values. He is all over the NYLT syllabus. He got his Nobel Prize for .... leading a campaign of civil disobedience against racial laws. Message?

I once put a lot of hours, telephone calls, and letters into trying to discover which of the 1908 troops was the first to meet. Several made the claim but could not document it. I did read my troop's Log Book when I was a Scout, and it started on PAGE I with a report on the first meeting of the troop in November, 1908, at the Asbury Methodist Episcopal Church (later First Methodist Church) in Santa Ana, California. The Log explained that "It was figured" that the troop was the forty-third California Peace Scout troop in the state, and "Troop 43" it remained after BSA showed up in 1926. I wish I knew what happened to that Log. I suspect it still exists - or perhaps dream. It had a black and white picture of another troop in Monterey in September, 1908 (Ruling my troop out as first.) and a picture of a "field day" in 1909, when Scouts were being tested for advancement (Said so on the back of the picture in lovely cursive.).

What was my oldest council in 2010 issued ten CSP's that year. I wore the one from 1981. I looked better and was more "uniform." Not that BSA is interested in a uniform, as opposed to a brand of clothing. I too liked the old "red and whites."

"One cannot legislate morality, though many have tried. " Not sure if this is what you mean, but before William I there was no concept of crime in England. Murder was a wrong against the family of the victim, leading to feuds. William's view was that he owned all of England and all the population owed him service. Killing someone was not a wrong against just the victim's family (the Saxon view) but a crime against the King, in his view. He was told he could not force that view on the population. With exceptions of course, he did just that. His word was the law of the land. He had to kill a good number of folks to get the lesson across. So if enough force is applied, you can legislate behavior. Similarly, German imposed it's will on occupied France with about 6000 active paramilitary police and security personnel and the threat of it's army. Until D-Day there was largely no resistance, movies and fictional accounts to he contrary notwithstanding. Ever read a book about the public demonstrations against Joe Stalin after WWII? Me neither. I had a Scout in my troops whose dad had a number on his arm, placed there when he was rounded up in late 1944 in eastern France. He was the only survivor of his immediate family. Like Jefferson, he had views about legislating morality. His bumper stickers said "Never Again" and "I am the NRA." Now you may raise "Prohibition" as an example, rather than murdering Native Americans on sight or women owning property and voting, but when alcohol is served in the White House and in every significant city in the land contemporaneous with "Prohibition," it is hard to say that the full weight of the state was brought to bear.

And the Nominating Committee?

Let me guess, the Council (effectively the SE) selects the Council Members-at-Large.

2009 "After countless rejections over the past seven years, the slate of nominations to the Chicago Area Council Board was finally approved by the voting membership. On June 22, the Annual Meeting and Board Election was reconvened, with about 60 CORs and Scouters gathering to vote. All five slates of nominees was approved by hefty majorities. Leading up to the election, there was much talk encouraging both sides of the election. While some felt enough concessions as to the members of the slate were made that they could be approved, others sought more changes and specific persons to be included or excluded from council governance. The major change in the CAC board is Glen Emig replacing Mike Hughes as council president. Emig, a member of the Scouter 11 group that brought suit (and won in court) against the council in 2007 over irregular governance, wasted no time in working on key issues. Just one month after his election, Emig convened a board meeting addressing the CAC bylaw stating a board will remain in place until the next Annual Meeting should the nominations slate fail two times. Also on Emig’s “to-do†list is a full review/revision of the CAC bylaws, the official hiring of Chuck Dobbins as official Scout Executive (he is currently interim S.E. appointed by National), and a full financial review of the council’s books. Upon the successful election in June, the National Council of the BSA restored the charter of the CAC, which had been in receivership. The Member-At-Large slate was greatly expanded to include many frontline Scouters including OSA President Bill Van Berschot, OOEC Chairman Joe Sener, and Bill and Rita Egan." Owasippe Staff Association, Vibrations, Vol 31, Issue 3.

I am not sure of the theory. I have watched the reality for almost fifty years. We had seven districts. The SE decided there should be three, each chaired by a "community leader." So it came to pass. The former district leaders were not fired. They were ignored - as if they had died. It has taken almost five years to start to recover. The "community leaders" have been useless. Polite. Nice smiles. Do nothing but write checks. In early 2016, our west-side district nominating committee nominated a respected longtime district Scouter as candidate for District Chairman. At the annual district business meeting, he was overwhelmingly elected. The SE quickly announced that he was disapproved as District Chairman. That district is entering its second year with no District Chairman because the members will not elect anyone else. Since the disallowance, the SE retired, and we got a new SE, who has decided to eliminate districts. We are told this too will come to pass. No way would I quit. Someone has to actually accomplish something(s), even if it's by way of crewing the life boats.

This sounds somewhat familiar. There were still racially segregated troops when I was a Scout, although none in our council. The lack of such troops got us picketed annually during Scout Week by the John Birch Society. Also cited on the JBS signs as drawing its ire were the World Brotherhood MB and trick-or-treating for UNICEF. I was a district Scout Chairman when: ST. PAUL, Minn., Feb. 13 [1988]— Officials of the Boy Scouts of America have voted to allow women in leadership positions, including scoutmaster, ending a male-only policy that has often been challenged in court, organization officials say. The change was voted Thursday by the national executive board in a meeting in Washington, D.C., according to The St. Paul Pioneer Press-Dispatch. The organization's headquarters are in Irving, Tex. Many positions in the Boy Scouts were already open to women, said Barclay Bollas, national news editor for the Boy Scouts. Of the 1.1 million volunteers within the program nationwide, about 500,000 are women, he said. ''In fact, there are many instances of women serving as trainers of scoutmasters,' he said. 'There was never a question of the ability of women. It was just that the Boy Scouts felt there ought to be male role models for boys.' 'For 12 years, the Boy Scouts had successfully defended legal challenges over its policy of allowing only men as leaders but decided to drop the restrictions because the court challenges had become too costly,' said Ron Phillippo, executive director of the Indianhead Council, which includes eight counties in eastern Minnesota and four in western Wisconsin. 'Scouting officials said that if a valid community organization, such as a church or a parent-teacher organization, agreed to sponsor a troop and have Mrs. Pollard lead it, the Boy Scouts would accept the application.' 'We look forward to her application and her becoming a scoutmaster,' Frank Hebb, public relations director for the Boy Scouts of America, said in a telephone interview from the organization's national headquarters in Irving, Tex." . . . "Mr. Hebb said Mrs. Pollard's legal fight was not the reason the policy was changed. 'Certainly we were aware of the number of years we were in court with Mrs. Pollard,' he said, 'but the board just felt it was time to change the policy.' A Unanimous Vote He said the organization's national executive board, meeting last Thursday in Washington, voted unanimously to allow women to be leaders or assistant leaders for Webelos, who are boys 10 years old; for Boy Scouts, who are 11 to 17 years old, and for Varsity Scouts, who are boys 14 to 18. 'The executive board decided the time had come when it was appropriate to recognize the valuable leadership women can provide,' Mr. Hebb said. The organization, which has 4.2 million youths as members, has 1.1 million adult members, including 500,000 women who work with Cub Scouts and hold other scouting posts, he said.'" . . . "The new rule specifically opens to women assignments as leaders and assistant leaders of Webelos dens for 10-year-old Cub Scouts; scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters of Boy Scout troops, whose members are usually 11 to 17; and coaches and assistant coaches for Varsity Scouts, ages 14 to 18." When this change was announced in 1988, it came as a surprise. A number of Scouters announced that they would drop out of Scouting, and some did. The hoped-for end of the shortage of adults in Scouting did not take place.

"So now I must trust National to continue to provide a youth-led, patrol driven, outdoor oriented program?" No. You can join me in hoping that BSA will return to Patrol Method, outdoor- oriented program. But that will take changes at the top.