TAHAWK

No. In is merely highly inconvenient and unnecessary to bar wagon and wheelbarrows for 10.5-13 Scouts in BSA Scouting. I is very damaging to program to seem to require two registered adults "at" all BSA Scouting activities: a fine example of people locked in a "bubble" - here the risk mangement bubble - and ignoring the need to povide program, already limited by lack of adult help and nor to be significantly more limited. And it is not about "safety." If it were, the presence of a Scout's parent(s) would suffice. They are the lawful parents, with custody. We lack any legal status.

"Each individual should “take charge” of the documentation of their training, " Because BSA and Council records can be a little off. When I checked my record a couple years ago, it said I completed Scoutmaster training in 1910. I submitted the official form that I was given to point out that the correct date was 1961. My official record now says I completed Scoutmaster training in 1912. 🎃

"Common Sense'" is typical humor in our culture. Like calling the biggest k😁id in school "Tiny.":😁

No. Really? And this is the locus of a "hive mind."?

An Eagle Scout who drove long distances to school in northern climes, admitted to having a small pen knife in a survival kit locked in his glove compartment, locked in his truck, in the school parking lot. Under a "zero tolerance: policy against "weapons," he was expelled. The school bureaucrats said they had no way to excuse his violation. So much for "judgment." Gee, how could discretion have been applied to prevent this absurd result? Not a "weapon." But that would require someone to take responsibility for the outcome. Instead, we get, in effect, " I was only following orders."

1. The new rule. quoted in posts 4 and 5 of this thread is as follows: ""Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings." As before, the use of the opaque "at" is typical of BSA communication, and I emphatically disagree with the possible interpretation that two registered adults adults, or even two adults, must always be within view, or even in the neighborhood, for any BSA Scouting activity, such as a Merit Badge Counselor meeting one or more Merit Badge candidates at summer camp or at the candidate's home. (One actual Merit Badge Counselor would be nice. Currently, the practice at most BSA summer camps is to have merit badges handed out, not earned, without the involvement of any registered Merit Badge Counselors - or proper testing by anyone.) The current requirement precluding one-on-one contact is completely adequate. I do not suggest exceptions. I suggest the new rule be revoked or drastically amended to preclude the interpretation that two registered adults must be present, in any sense of "presence," "at" all BSA Scouting activities. And the redrafted rule should eliminate this question: "If two registered adults happen, by chance, to be driving by on a highway (bordering the property at which the activity is taking place), are they "at" the activity?" 2. There is no "hive mind" here - obviously. If one exists, it is to be found elsewhere. However, I read your second sentence in light of the council merit badge mills that violate national camping standards and the Guide to Advancement, and ask you why BSA has a culture where folks act as if it is acceptable to bend or break rules at will. 3. Through the regimes of four council Scout Executives over thirty-five years, my experience is that my local council does not answer most of the questions that arise about National's pronouncements, whether my questions or other's. For example, when the rule prohibiting use of alcohol on counsel property was eliminated [One believes use as a beverage was the unspoken intended target of that rule. BSA subsequently, and incorrectly, advocated treatment of wounds with alcohol.] , leaving a rule saying no such use is allowed where prohibited, but without any actual prohibition, my council was totally unable to respond to my question as to whether this was an oversight - or even understand that question. That was March of this year. I have not checked since. Council had no contact information to share. When I asked about the original YPT rule that child abuse cases in BSA Scouting be reported only to the Scout Executive, pointing out that Ohio criminal law required reporting to local government, I got only blank looks and, after repetitions of this incident, advice to "contact National" but with no contact information available. I have asked why the current on-line YPT training and testing is reached as "position-specific training," which it is not, I was also told to "Contact National," which I have with no response to date. If I get a response, I may take the test. Drafting coherent, high-quality rules and practices is not easy. That was part of my work for what is now "AT&T." I suggest circulating proposed rules to those who have to abide by them. Never let lawyers draft rules and practices without input from those who actually lead the business and deliver service to the customers. Those practices will result in changes - and better rules. Beyond risk management, there is the work of the enterprise to perform.

What, you want coherent English? From "professionals"? National Service Center Mailing Address: PO Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079 Physical Address: 1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038 Office Phone: 972-580-2000 Questions or comments: MyScouting@scouting.org Media inquiries: PR@scouting.org rofessionals"? Not hardly. National Service Center Mailing Address: PO Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079 Physical Address: 1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038 Office Phone: 972-580-2000 Questions or comments: MyScouting@scouting.org Media inquiries: PR@scouting.org

National Service Center Mailing Address: PO Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079 Physical Address: 1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038 Office Phone: 972-580-2000 Questions or comments: MyScouting@scouting.org Media inquiries: PR@scouting.org

National Service Center Mailing Address: PO Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079 Physical Address: 1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038 Office Phone: 972-580-2000 Questions or comments: MyScouting@scouting.org Media inquiries: PR@scouting.org

Don't know. To me, prohibitions without room for exception/lienency are zero tolerance rules. Would it be OK if they say "never" and do not enforce the rule on some secret basis, such as not letting the two-registered-adult rule get in the way of merit badge millery at summer camp (or the rule that all merit badge counselors - all- must be registered as such [so 18 years of age or older])? A program on NPR last night quoted someone regarding a President that he had high ideals and no principles. BSA has high ideals.

"Zero tolerance" avoids making judgments -applying reason - taking responsibility. 💀

BIG CHANGES Now two have to be registered. Not enough to be a parent. Nuts. Adults who are, as a matter of settled law, NOT in loco parentis trump actual parents. This does not pass the smell test. $$$$$$$$ Plus a patrol could take a front country hike or meet with no adults present. This more recent and more general rule either changes that to require at least two adults "at" the meeting OR further evidence (were it needed) of massive incompetence in communication." "Scouting is not unique in wrestling with this issue. " We in the U.S. are not unique in having racism, but I care more about our failings because I am an American. I belong here. Do I try to excuse what we did and do because the Japanese tried to exterminate their indigenous people -- ditto Canada, Australia, Brazil? Nor is the Little League supposed to be youth led. What gets in the way Scouting is questionable at best.

I asked what to do when the phone rang and it was a Scout when that rule appeared a couple years ago. Never got a fix - just wide-eyed stares from paid Scouters and ignored by National.

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/got-questions/

Still waiting for our orders from SE

That's you, (and me), Salt. Others differ (silly them).

Inside information would be nice - lest you get something he already has or will never use. E.g.: what does he have in the way of knives (or axes)? Some nice Nordic knives are available in that price range. The Helle Folkekniven (Incorrect Norwegian - "folkekniv" is the singular) can be had for under $90.00. Slightly smaller than the official BSA Helle knives, it is unlikely to draw fire from the knife-phobic types. http://www.helle.no/products/knives/folkekniven/

😁

WHAT BSA MEANT TO SAY TWO DEEP LEADERSHIP 1. BSA requires two-deep adult leadership on all outings. One of the two adults must be twenty-one years of age or older. One must be a registered Scouter. The presence of parents does not eliminate this requirement. 2. If an activity is an overnight co-ed outing, both of the adult leaders required in 1 above must be twenty-one years of age or older and one must be a female. The presence of parents does not eliminate this requirement. 3. Any adult accompanying a unit for seventy-two hours, consecutive or non-consecutive, on a given outing must be a registered Scouter.

Turns out they meant 72 hours of any given "activity."

"adults accompanying a unit seventy-two+ ... non-consecutive hours" must be registered Scouters. 😍 (On a given outing? In a year? Two?) ANSWER NUMBER GUY AT NATIONAL FEELS THE RULE IS NOT AS STATED IN TRAINING BUT IS NOT SURE WHAT THE 72+ HOURS RULES IS. SUGGESTS I SEND AN EMAIL. Oh for mere competency!

On-line version needs to be scrapped. Instructions from nice lady at National (after 13 minute wait) began with instruction NOT to select on-line guide to taking the training as it takes one in a circle. 😲 Had to reset entry page x 3 before it would work Links are not identified/marked - you just have to know to click on certain text. At one point, select text "position specific training" to get along towards YPT. Many sincere apologies from nice lady. "Problems" are "recognized," but no corrections planned yet. Good thing we have an excess of adult help. 😉

I wish I had the experience. Having taken the Blanchard course three years previously, I knew to a certain extent what was coming. (Also very different. "Satan" did an excellent job of controlling emotions and led a thoughtful debrief, including "What just happened? What is 'winning'? in a Scouting context?" The Blanchard staff walked off the stage after announcing the results with no effort to smooth the waters ("You don't want them anyway." Indeed, the eight young "winners" of Team Velociraptors were all soon gone.. Tricking the Executive VP (and six other VPs) exhibits questionable judgment, at best. ) Easy to think you are beyond temptation.

All we have are bits and pieces. In 1909 "Billy" Milne learned of a small group of boys at the First Baptist Church in Barre, VT, who were already members of the Boys Brigade, he offered them an alternative to their routine of marching and drills. By re-organizing into a new "Boy Scout Club" these scouts learned first aid, new outdoor skills and being helpful to others. "Billy" Milne went back to his native Scotland and brought back the books and materials he needed along with a British Charter. By 1910 Barre's Troop #1 joined the Boy Scouts of America U.S. Army Maj. Robert Lee Bullard, who would rise to the rank of lieutenant general and command the 1st Infantry Division, "The Big Red One," in World War I, met Baden-Powell in England shortly before he shipped out to the Philippines, and was impressed by the British general's scouting movement. After being posted to the Presidio of Monterey from the Philippines with other members of the 8th Infantry Regiment in 1908, Bullard and three other soldiers recruited boys from the Monterey Grammar School, fitted them out with uniforms, a flag, drums and bugles. A photograph taken in 1908 shows Troop 1 in ranks by the side of the Monterey Custom House, wearing uniforms. One of the troop's first outings was a weekend campout at Point Lobos, with the boys in uniform marching out with two mule-drawn Army wagons carrying their supplies, according to a 1936 news story in The Monterey Herald by the late Ted Durein. Records of the troop's subsequent lineage are sketchy. Pacific Grove Troop 90 claims to be Troop 1's direct descendent. In an exchange of letters between Alfred Young, executive of Scout Council 25 in Salinas, and Bullard's wife in 1936, Young reported that Troop 1 operated from 1908 to 1912, drifted gradually to Pacific Grove from 1912 to 1918, and was registered as Troop 1, Pacific Grove, from 1918 until 1924, when the number was changed to Troop 90. Scout officials and historians concede that a number of troops were formed before 1910, but none that were recognized as official Boy Scouts of America units

People did not wait for an organization. People bought the book and started up. I have belonged to two 1908 troops - one in Santa Ana, California, and one that started in Cleveland, Ohio, and migrated to Cleveland Heights, Ohio., by WWII. When BSA arrived in Cleveland in 1912, there were already ninety-nine troops, five of whom claimed # 1. What I can't determine vis-a-vis Cleveland District is what happened to former Troop 6 - STILL 6, changed to 11? (About ten years ago, a jackass threw away all the old records.) BSA did not finally arrive in Orange County, California, until 1926. Troop 43, then 18 (old as dirt to a kid) decided to remain Troop 43 - its California Peace Scout Number. Could not beat the 6 x 6 green silk flag with "Semper Paratus" and the UK Fdl. "The best troop in all the land is Troop 43." So when was the centennial? 1907.