TAHAWK

Respectfully, "uniform" means the same. BSA sells a wide price-range of markedly dissimilar shirts, shorts, and trousers, and the youth is well-aware of who wears the cheappies and who the rich kid clothing from the BSA brand. So much for social leveling. Not to mention the stuff from 1950s, 1060s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990d, 2000s that I can drag out and wear as "[NOT] uniform." Wearing anything remotely "uniform" - or even BSA- is even more optional than the optional neckerchief. No "uniform"in the standard English sense - except for Jambo fund-raising. Think I'll wear my "Exploring, B.S.A." green shirt to the Area Commissioners' Training Conference - or my "Scouting B.S.A." green shirt - with my old award ribbons. Such as: <a href="https://imgur.com/sdN6YOt"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/sdN6YOt.png" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

The rules require all leaders, and Scouters too, to wear any compliant neckerchief democratically selected by the Troop. if the troop elects not to wear a neckerchief, all leaders, and Scouters too,m wear no neckerchief. This option is the last remnant of "uniform."

"The Neckerchief Official neckerchiefs. Official neckerchiefs are triangular in shape. The Lion neckerchief, No. 646377, is gold with a dark blue border. The Tiger neckerchief, No. 620616, is orange with a dark blue border. The Wolf neckerchief, No. 802, is gold with a blue border. The Bear neckerchief, No. 801, is light blue with a dark blue border. The Cub Scout rank emblem is displayed in a central position on the downward corner of each rank’s neckerchief. Cub Scout leaders may wear the blue and gold Cub Scout leader’s neckerchief, No. 64070. Webelos Scouts wear the gold, green, and red plaid neckerchief, No. 64077, with the Webelos emblem on the downward corner. A Webelos leader wears a neckerchief, No. 64078, similar to the Webelos Scout neckerchief, except that it has gold embroidered edging and is larger. A special Lone Scout neckerchief, No. 611209, is gold with the black and red printed insignia of the Lone Scout. It is worn by both Lone Cub Scouts and Lone Scouts. Scout neckerchiefs are optional. Troops choose their own official neckerchief. All members of a troop wear the same color. The troop decides by vote, and all members abide by the decision. If the neckerchief is not worn, then the shirt is worn with open collar. Scout and Scout leader neckerchiefs may be worn in a variety of plain colors and contrasting borders. Neckerchiefs available through the Supply Group include the embroidered universal Scouting emblem if permanent press, or printed if not. Local councils may prescribe that the specific official neckerchief be worn by Scouts and Scouters on a council or district basis. When engaged in Scouting activities, members may wear the neckerchief with appropriate nonuniform [i.e. not BSA brand] clothing to identify them as Scouts. Special neckerchiefs, the same size as the official ones, may be authorized by local councils. Such neckerchiefs may include identification of the chartered organization. The standard designed neckerchief may be personalized with troop number, city, and state. By troop approval, an Eagle Scout may wear an Eagle Scout neckerchief. Boy Scouts of America, SPECIAL REGULATIONS at 12 (last emphasis added)

Fixed. There is no "uniform."

Everything SA has published about the Patrol Method in the last 49 years has lacked depth, or worse, was incorrect, although all the bits and pieces were here and there until very recently. Now even the scattered piece-parts are mostly gone. This is an understandable situation because few - if any - at National Counsel know what the Patrol Method is - or was. It was, for example, never BP'S "Patrol System," in which the "Patrol Leader" was always appointed by the "Officer" - the Scoutmaster. Bill was two generations younger and lacked BP's background as a Victorian Lieutenant General. Bill built our "Patrol Method" with elected leaders - a school for representative democracy. The only "win" for Scouting in the 13th ed. was the statement that a troop is formed of patrols ( rather than from Scouts ). How that was slipped in by the real Scouters is a mystery, since BSA has been troop, troop, troop since the "Improved Scouting Program" cost BSA millions of members in the awful early 1970s. Then, too, they knew better than the mere volunteers - or Bill. Given decades of failure to train adults about Scouting, few of them understand the significance of that fragment of wisdom. "One, two, three, four or five Patrols may form a Troop, but the Patrols are the working unit whenever practical and the Troop organization is designed to provide supervision, coordination, institutional loyalty and service." B.S.A., The Patrol Method, 1938 ed. at p. 3. Look at the odious BSA model Troop Meeting Plan for the last couple of generations - 5 or ten minutes for the patrol - to be spent, we care told, on business. That's backwards under the Patrol Method., where a Scout is to primarily experience Scouting, if not BSA, in a patrol context.

Others seeking ideas/guidance may come here in even more years to come.

Can you spell "MILL"? It's the new BSA way.

As do leadership by youth and meeting requirements for advancement remain optional, based on practices tolerated.

But the new rule is NOT two adults - or twenty adults. It's "Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over...." Not even Mom and Dad will do otherwise - or the Chief of Police or Christ. There is not logic whatsoever to the rule.

My proposal, DT, is to entirely eliminate the new rule, root and branch. The Merit Badge Counselor and any other Scout, much less a parent, is adequate, as is meeting in a public place, such as a library or police station. The objective is supposedly to make the contact with the merit badge candidates "transparent" so both the Scout and the counselor is protected, and registration of an adult does nothing to assure greater transparency. Your new rule, Richard, means I cannot meet a candidate at FBI headquarters with the Special Agent in Charge present - unless he is registered, of course or another "registered" Scouter is present. Would Christ do, if not registered? Buddha? Parents, rejected as inadequate unless "registered," have, after all, actual, as opposed to imaginary, legal status vis-a-vis their child in BSA Scouting, BSA Scouters do not. I can find no authority for believing a BSA Scouter not a parent to a Scout stands in loco parentis to a Scout. To the contrary, see, e.g., State v. Noggle, 67 Ohio St. 3d 31(1993). "The phrase "person in loco parentis" in R.C. 2907.03(A)(5) applies to a person who has assumed the dominant parental role and is relied upon by the child for support. This statutory provision was not designed for teachers, coaches, scout leaders, or any other persons who might temporarily have some disciplinary control over a child. Simply put, the statute applies to the people the child goes home to." Id. at 33 and Dale v. Boy Scouts of America, 160 N.J. 562 ,734 A.2d 1196 (1999) "Our prior decisions indicate that the status of in loco parentis is reserved for individuals who function as a parent. See, e.g., Miller v. Miller, 97 N.J. 154, 162, 478 A.2d 351 (1984) (recognizing stepparent may have in loco parentis relationship); In re M.S., 73 N.J. 238, 243-44, 374 A.2d 445 (1977) (finding juvenile shelter for delinquents stands in loco parentis). Characteristics of that relationship include 'the responsibility to maintain, rear and educate the child,' Miller, supra, 97 N.J. at 162, 478 A.2d 351, as well as the duties of 'supervision, care and rehabilitation,' In re M.S., supra, 73 N.J. at 242, 374 A.2d 445; see also A.S., supra, 139 N.J.Super. at 369, 354 A.2d 100 (defining role as 'one who means to put himself in the situation of the lawful father with reference to the father's office and duty of making provision for the child'). Boy Scouts does not assume those responsibilities or those duties. It does not maintain or rear children. A Boy Scout leader may function as a supervisor of children for limited periods of time; he does not have 'the responsibility to maintain, rear and educate' children such that he stands in the place of a parent. 734 A. 2d at 1218. Moreover the entire notion of adults present and "supervising" a patrol meeting or patrol hike to the neighborhood park for lunch is inconsistent with of Scouting, if not BSA, for defined for 111 years. The Patrol Leader supervises the meeting - not any adult. The adult jobs is to teach the PL how to do his job and be his coach, counsellor, mentor and resource - not an adult patrol leader. Think EDGE as BSA defines it. Destroying the "business" to "save" it is not rational. You can't just say "no." Where does BSA Scouting, short of adults as it is, get all these extra Scouter hours? The Book of No gets bigger and bigger as BSA and, sadly, with it Scouting in the U.S.A., dies.

My proposal is to entirely eliminate the new rule, root and branch. The Merit Badge Counselor and any other Scout, much less a parent, is adequate, as is meeting in a public place, such as a library or police station. The objective is that "light" shine on the contact, and registration of an adult does nothing to assure greater transparency. Your new rule means I cannot meet a candidate at FBI headquarters with the Special Agent in Charge present - unless he is registered, of course. Would Christ do, if not registered? Buddha? And the entire notion of adults present and "supervising" a patrol meeting or patrol hike to the neighborhood park for lunch is contrary to the basic tenants of Scouting, if not BSA, for 111 years. Destroying the "business" to "save" it is not rational.

I never said " a parent" is adequate. National council, citing legal council for some reason, responded to my question about meeting with merit badge candidates as follows: "National legal counsel stated that 1 person must be registered (Merit Badge Counselor) and the 2nd ["registered"] adult does not have to be registered but must be over 21 – suggestion is a parent. ...Mandy Nora Member Care Contact Center Boy Scouts of America 972.580.2489 " Worried about risk management? That was once one of my jobs at AT&T when it had over 1,000,000 employees. The are issues greater than whether Dad is the "second adult" although not "registered. The Scouting Guide to Survival 1. deet Insect repellants containing deet are generally safe, So are motor vehicles. The Scouting Guide to Survival, Boy Scouts of America (2018), discusses using insect repellents containing up to 100% deet; does not discuss limiting multiple applications; does not mention adult supervision; does mention use with sun screens, and does not mention age as a criteria for application or self-application. Meanwhile, Consumer Reports gets a lot of attention, and it says: "Our previous tests show that concentrations of 30 percent [deet] provide the same protection against mosquitoes as higher percentages for up to 8 hours. But higher concentrations of deet have been linked to rashes, disorientation, and seizures. That’s why Consumer Reports says you should avoid mosquito repellents with more than 30 percent deet [per American Academy of Pediatrics (30-33% max)] and not use it at all on infants younger than 2 months [per American Academy of Pediatrics ]." (Perhaps this is why Canada barred sales of products containing more the 30% deet in 2002.) The USCDC says: "Do not allow children under 10 years of age to apply repellent themselves. . . . (DEET is toxic if swallowed.). " The USEPA says, "Do not allow young children to apply this product." "Once you return indoors, be sure your child washes with soap and water to remove the repellent and wash the sprayed clothing before wearing again." American Academy of Pediatrics "The right concentration of DEET for: adults and children older than 12 years old is up to 30% children aged 2 to 12 years is up to 10% you can apply the product up to 3 times daily children aged 6 months to 2 years old is up to 10% you should not apply the product more than once a day For children younger than 12 years old, do not use a DEET product on a daily basis for more than a month. For infants younger than 6 months old, do not use an insect repellent containing DEET. Instead, use a mosquito net when babies are outdoors in a crib or stroller." Government of Canada (Health Canada). " [V]olunteers who have applied concentrations of 50% to 75% DEET have developed erythema with vesiculobullous skin necrosis and residual scarring.16 DEET concentrations in the range of 10% to 35% will provide adequate insect bite protection, with concentrations below 30% recommended for children 2 years of age and older." Wilderness and Environmental Medicine, Wilderness Medical Society (March, 2016) The USFDA recommends that deet-containing products be applied over, and not under, sun screens. Ross, E.A., Savage, K.A., Utley, L.J., and Tebbett, I.R. "Insect repellent interactions: sunscreens enhance DEET (N, N-diethyl-m-toluamide) absorption," Drug Metab Dispos. (2004), at 32: 783–785. The BSA book does not mention other, safer products that test as just effective against mosquitoes and more effective against biting flies and ticks, such as oil of Lemon Eucalyptus, approved by the USCDC and USEPA. Id. 2. warm-water immersion for severe hypothermia. The same BSA book suggests that victims with severe hypothermia to the point of unconsciousness be emerged in a tub of warm water. The BSA in all other publications on that topic STRONGLY counsels to do no such thing as external warming of extremities presents a significant risk of death. Every other authority that I can locate, including the Red Cross, Mayo Clinic and Wilderness Medical Society STRONGLY reject immersion in warm water for severe hypothermia cases. See, e.g., Journal of Emergency Medicine, at http://www.jems.com/articles/print/volume-42/issue-11/features/identifying-and-managing-accidental-hypothermia.html?utm_ content=bufferec6c2&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook. com&utm _campaign=buffer. Other examples of dangerous advice in BSA publications are out there, or we can focus on prohibited activities like kids "shooting" kids with squirt guns.

I have it in writing from National Council months ago that the second adult at a meeting i have as a Merit Badge Counselor with a candidate need not be a registered Scouter. notwithstanding the "two registered adult Scouter" (as opposed to child Scouters?) rule. I rely on that formal advice.

Indeed, clarity is good. 👌 Rationality would also be useful, probably even more important than consistency., a point that escapes those in the Safety Bubble 🐧

Good observation on human nature.

Hmmm. My old troop, starting before I was born, collected grease and fat for the War effort. There were photographs in the Troop's log book. Fat was raw material for producing glycerin, in turn an ingredient in explosives and ammunition propellants.

Hope for the best. Plan for the worst. When I joined the 1,000,000+ employee Bell System, my boss reminded me: "Remember, they have a business to run. Your job is to help them to it, not tell them 'No, no, no.'" These birds are far less competent.

Our kids came up with a project to put warning signs (epoxied over) ("DON'T POLLUTE OUR DRINKING WATER!] on street drains - pointing out where the drains lead and discouraging putting oil and radiator fluids down the drains. Signs also warned that radiator fluid is poisonous.

Only adults wear the AOL knot. The AOL rank patch (if earned) may be worn on the Boy Scout uniform under the left pocket.

"I’m wondering about the way knots were done, like the Eagle or did they do an AoL knot? " might you explain this question. The AOL knot goes in the same area as other knots so far as I know. The James E West Award, inclusive of its knot, was created in 1993. The knot for the youth religious award was introduced in 1971 and the knot for the adult emblems in 1973.

Barry, I too worked for a large organization. ATT had 1,000,000+ employees in all its subsidiaries when I joined. Not nimble. But this is a regression from twenty and more years ago. The incompetence problem rears its ugly head once more.

Last week, purchased Fears, J. Wayne, The Scouting Guide to Survival, Skyhorse Publishing & Boy Scouts of America (2018). It says this: "Hypothermia . . . If the victim is semi-conscious or worse, he does not have the capacity of regaining his body temperature without outside help. Keep him awake, give him warm drinks, and if possible get him into a warm bath." Id. at 41. Not sure if this is the right subforum or if any exists, but this is bad advice per everyone I looked at, including Mayo Clinic and American Red Cross. No good place to report anything about BSA literature, but i tried. i think the old basic FA session in SM T-F training said not to put advanced cases in warm water due to risk of heart attack.

Grosgrain ribbon is fairly cheap.

Epaulets, correctly understood (as BSA does not) eliminate most sewn-on patches, replaced by loop=on or snap on insignia/patrol colors. Last time i checked, in Oz they had one sewn-on patch - the district (as we used to say before "council") patch.