TAHAWK

Outdoors, in such a situation, it was up to the adults to do whatever was necessary - whatever. If they failed to do so, it is on them as well as those whom you describe. All it takes for evil to triumph . . .

It's as good as the staff, especially the person playing the "devil" or "Game Show Host." One player who speaks out with the right message can make it right as well. I don't think it should be discussed. A good explanation (and no complete one has been given) will not reverse a badly done exercise and a good explanation is not needed if it was done well. It's not just about competition vs. cooperation. Blanchard, who I saw in action, did not debrief afterwards, but a corporation has some objectives inconsistent with Scouting, he said.

"Also, it is too subjective." Read the advancement regs. It is mostly subjective and has always been thus. The whole objective is subjective and advancement is just one subjective means to that subjective end. That didn't bother BP, who famously said it should be about "effort," so why does it bother today?

Can he retake his Board when he fails? The Scout, not the parent.

What's your main point? What message are we to take away from your discussion -- beyond the lack of wisdom in using the word "safe," as BSA does. None of my training is in risk management on the "level" with which you seem most comfortable.

I googled "BSA Physical Fitness Award" and found all four Scouting.org links to the award in sixty seconds. Not that its a great site to move around in once you're there.

Excuse me if I am totally out of it, but I suggest that we do need to try to teach Scouts to weigh benefits against risks and to avoid risks that seem disproportionate to benefits. Not ISO 31000, but they will need THAT skill immediately and for life. Do homework or watch some media? Run with that crowd? Smoke that joint? Cross that stream? Try to hike that extra mile? Go back or go forward? Some at BSA seem dedicated to rules that preclude use of judgement. >If a wilderness survival situation develops, "stay put." Kids recognize that "stay put" or "hug a tree" may not make sense. MB candidate: "In the thunderstorm on the side of the cliff as the temperature falls, the wind rises, and the lightning flashes?" >Here are the priorities for wilderness survival "in this order." Kids tend to think this inevitable order of importance is pretty funny. "My canoe flipped and I build a fire and drink water?" >Follow LNT when in a wilderness survival situation, specifically as to fires where firewood is to come from the ground. (Thus showing a lack of understanding of LNT) And Beav, I think of good training as including experience, not precluding it, and as the beginning of learning, not the end. Now "Trained," is often a barb of a different sharpness. The world is full of "Trained" folk who are incompetent in the job they are "Trained" to do. (As to "STOP," the order of the letters makes so little sense that discussing the "Think" portion usually includes language about gathering data and the "Observe" step is described with language about processing data. It's really SOTP, but who could remember that?)

Someone is "hunting" our Chief Scout Executive or National Commissioner? Thar' she blows!!!! 0___0

I found this 2012 news release at Scouting.org: "Boy Scouts of America Encourages Activity During National Physical Fitness and Sports Month Nation's Largest Youth Service Organization Combats Obesity With Education Today's youth are considered the most inactive generation in history, leading to increasing rates of childhood obesity . As part of its ongoing Good Turn for America initiative the Boy Scouts of America, one of the nation's leading youth organizations, is recognizing National Physical Fitness and Sports Month by educating youth on fitness through initiatives like the BSA Physical Fitness Award. The award is a national program of emphasis designed to heighten fitness awareness and to help change the lifestyles of American youth regarding exercise and healthy diet." Another 2012 news release at Scouting.org says BSA is recognizing "National Physical Fitness and Sports Month (May)" and says: "Among the BSA's multiple health-, nutrition-, and fitness-related awards is the BSA Physical Fitness Award, which is based on seven components of fitness. The BSA encourages Americans of all ages to focus more attention on their physical health and well-being, and offers the following insights on conducting a physical fitness test based on its seven components of fitness (more information is available at old.scouting.org." The application is still at Scouting.org: http://old.scouting.org/pubs/19-327/application.pdf Numerous Council websites talk about it currently (e.g. http://www.texastrailsbsa.org/bsa_physical_fitnes_award.html) The insignia is stil for sale at ScoutStuff: http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/insignia-cloth/earned/bsa-physical-fitness-award.html So that non-BSA site seems to be wrong.

Good observations.

I turned to the knife pages and found: The knife identified as made by Ulster was actually made by BSA's first knife supplier, New York Knife Company, and is so marked. The knife illustrating the Rockwell knife series is the worst example I have ever seen. Three of the four sheath knives on p. 69 are not Boy Scout issue. The "Boy Scouts" marked knife on the bottom left of p. 69 is not, in fact, an example as the book says of "Boy Scout Knives" but is one of the many unlicensed foreign knifes that flooded the country before WW I. The "ScoutKnife" on the top left of p. 71 is another unlicensed knife, as are two others on the page (and the one illustrated in the Handbook as the prototypical Boy Scout Knife),) The "Circle-V" patch on p. 51 came with the New Exploring Program on 1959, not 1960 as stated. And no Bill, Slovenly. Don't know or don't care?

"Younger set has more accidents? Is it because this group is more likely to drive a bunch of beaters ready for the scrapyard and shod with worn tires? Addition of go-fast equipment wouldn't factor in, of course." Children of the wealthy under 25 have elevated rate of accidents/mile driven. Children of college-educated under 25 have elevated rate of accidents/mile driven. "Stupid" is apparently no respector of class or intelligence. Still no reason not to have youth experience leading.

I live just inside the border of one council and volunteer in that council, having Scouted for thirty years in the adjoining council. I am registered as a council volunteer in one and an SA in the other. I pay only the registration fee as an SA.

I'm sure it was a hard choice. (^___^) Being Prepared is a status. Improvising is a skill. Not the same.

Didn't say a word about the cause(s) of the motor vehicle accident statistics. Only point I propose is that, regardless of the cause(s) for risky behavior, such behavior is not a good rationale for depriving youth of the learning opportunity of leading.

There is massive data collected by the insurance industry regarding driving behavior. The young, AS A GROUP, are significantly more likely to engage in risky driving behaviors than those 25 or older. This has little to do with creativity or intelligence at such. As we are supposed to be teaching youth to be better and more responsible citizens, there seems little basis to use this data to support failing to allow youth the experience of leading.

Google: scout OR scouts camp

List of Councils and addresses. http://www.angelfire.com/wy/gilwell/links.html

SSS, Forget the substance. Tell me how you cover that much in the 50 minutes the official IOLS syllabus allows, including the "hands-on" the syllabus calls for. (Just kidding.)

Box, Cultures really differ. I always wondered about a ban on lock-blades when so many had SIG 550's in the home, many fully-automatic (an actual "assault rifle"). Where I live, possession of a a fully-automatic version of the 550 in the home or anywhere would be a serious crime except for a very few holders of a special federal permit. No law prohibits possessing large knives --- or sword,s pikes, or crossbows. So we are ready for Charles the Bold. ^___^ (For historic reasons, Ohio, like many states, has an unenforced ban on possessing the "bowie knife." They are made, advertised, and sold in Ohio.) In El Salvador, a machete is pretty standard equipment for a Scout outing in the bush - simply the right tool, political correctness aside. Keep asking: "How do we fulfill out duty under the Guide to Safe Scouting to teach Scouts how to safely use all legally owned woods tools if we ban the preeminent woods tool (according to Boy's Life and every other expert) - the fixed-blade knife?

"Safety": The last BSA national camp accident summary I saw was a few years ago, but I doubt it has changed. The most common "woods tools" accident was "knife closed on fingers." Not sure where kitchen knives fit in that picture. The most severe woods tools accidents were from axes. A lock blade locked open is no more safe - or unsafe -- than a fixed blade knife. Unsafe sheaths are an avoidable issue, but sheaths are, of course, not an issue with a folding knife - that stays securely closed. Cheap CHINA knives, lacking detentes to keep them closed, do open in pockets. A study belt pouch is in order for such knives (but may exceed the cost of the knife).

And no right-thinking person would ever crack a boiled egg on the large end.

You may disagree, but not with me.

Stosh, we seem to be "divided by a common language." The axe in the Kit Carson Kit (BSA Nos. 1079 and 1080) is the standard B.S.A. hand axe ("Official Scout Axe"). There is a smaller B.S.A. hand axe made by Plumb in the 1930's and into WW II, the "Voyager" (11"; 1.375 lbs; originally made for the Girl Scouts), but it was not part of the Kit Karson Kt and would fit loosely in the axe cover portion. HAndle little thing but had to find these days. While the risk presented by saws is frequently underestimated, do you regard the now-more-common folding pruning saw as more dangerous than the axe that you favor? To split wood up to baseball bat size with a saw: 1. saw half through the diameter of the length of wood as if making two lengths. 2. grasp the length of wood with the cut on the bottom side. 3. strike the length of wood against a hard object (rock; hard ground) with the saw cut on the side being stuck and the impact towards the end you are not holding. The cut acts as a stress-riser and the length of wood tends to split lengthways. Not 100% but usually. Useless with elm, but elm doesn't want to split "no way."

And elbows?