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TAHAWK

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Everything posted by TAHAWK

  1. I now see that only liquid, gaseous, or jellied chemicals are "chemicals" for purposes of G2SS. So the common practice -- in one place at one time -- of using C4 for fuel would be as off-topic for the G2SS prohibition as paraffin, "heat tabs," or wood. But might the B.S.A. share with us the reasoning that brought it to prohibit DIY "chemical stoves" while allowing, but not recommending, non-homemade alcohol stoves? Are DIY stoves more dangerous in experience? (More dangerous than axes?) Or are they, rather, less dangerous than purchased chemical stoves? The alcohol stove that I purchased several years ago was made of aluminum beverage cans, as were those I made myself. Only the purchased stove pressurizes itself -- something I could not seem to accomplish myself. It works more efficiently than the stoves that I made, but is it less dangerous or more? I would no more want such a purchased alcohol stove tipped on me than I would a buddy burner, wood stove, my favorite Coleman burning appliance, or, as otherwise suggested, the hot water that might be found on top of any of these tools. In forty-one years in the program, I have seen far more burns from open fires than all the various stoves combined. In stovedom, the biggest risk during those years was from the original Coleman Peak 1 stove, the one with the brown fuel tank that regularly spouted orange flames ten feet in the air, over-pressurized, leaked fuel all over the table through the "safety valve," and then ignited THAT fuel. Impressive sight on a Winter's night. See "Vesuvius Effect." Is it the Scout burned to death with the rubbing alcohol? That seems somewhat unrelated to stoves. Is it the visibility of flames issue? Surely not. The flames are as visible - or not - in a "store-bought" stove as a home-made one. As we are told this decision resulted from a disciplined and formalized analysis, reason(s) for the new distinctions was/were identified. Could you share? (And when will that disciplined process focus on the several years-old unfortunate information on purification of water and "safe" dish-washing found in B.S.A. literature on sale tomorrow in Scout Shops all over the country - the literature that contradicts the G2SS?)
  2. "Count your blessings! If I was in charge, I would employ Baden-Powell's standards to prohibit Boy Scouts from using ANY tool that they have not personally backpacked 50 miles in to the job site. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu \" Having a hard time finding this standard, Rick. Could you help? Seems like they did a lot of work at Gilwell Park. Did they have to hike in from fifty miles away? Jolly good exercise, that.
  3. Alcohol is "not recommended." Why? I hear there was an accident having nothing to do with a stove at all. Home-made alcohol stoves, including non-pressurized stoves, are "prohibited." Why? If I buy it off the Internet, is it "home-made"? Factory-made alcohol stoves, including pressurized stoves, are not prohibited, just "not recommended." Why? They are the most popular stove in Scouting. Renewable fuel. LNT. Conservation. Jellied alcohol? All-home-made "chemical" stoves are prohibited. Buddy Burners? They use CnH2n+2. Candles used to heat food? Chemical fuel for sure Heat Tabs on a rock? Chemical fuel for sure. Cellulose as a fuel? Chemical fuel for sure. Coleman fuel is less dangerous? Propane? (BOOM!) How about an all-cold food menu? Don't we teach that being "directive" without explanation is a questionable leadership style in a volunteer organization? How about giving orders that seem arbitrary and that you have no practical way to enforce? What does that do to authority and "discipline"? The military teaches that it does nothing good. Or is this just CYA? BOOM!
  4. I see a great future for three-wheeled carts in Scouting. 0___0 And the 4-wheeled ATV's featured at some Council camps? Do they get a "pass" because they are self-propelled? http://www.psrweb.org/
  5. As an additional data point, one Scoutmaster informed of the new standards was extremely pleased.
  6. We understand each other - and disagree. I see some forms of punishment as the role of the Scout leader - consequences for behavior. I see some forms of punishment as beyond the Scout leader's warrant and best left to a Scouter. A question of degree, I think, like many decisions he will face in life. Say a Scout is Patrol Scribe, but he consistently fails to attend enough meetings to actually do the job. He is not happy when replaced by another Scout. Is that really something the PL must leave to a Scouter? He can appoint but not remove?
  7. The PL sees that Johnny's tent is a mess and tells him "Johnny, clean up your tent." Discipline. The Troop is in formation for Retreat, and Johnny is telling a joke. The PL says, "Johnny, sshhhh!)" Discipline. Discipline includes keeping order and that is very much part of the job of a leader, be he Scout or Scouter. As this is Scouting, as much of the job as possible goes to the Scout leader, not the Scouter. I suspect you visualized "punishment," and even that is the job of a PL (extra KP assigned when Johnny ran off to play and left Bill to do the dishes). Otherwise, you make of a PL only a snitch: "Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith, Johnny won't be quiet. Mr. Smith, Mr. Smith . . . ." Is there a line beyond which it's a adult job? Sure. But we need judgment because it's not a matter of absolutes, and teaching judgment is part of the job. So teach them about when to ask for adult input or when to turn the job over to an adult. "It ain't school." (And even school has Hall Monitors.)
  8. Safety is the nondelegable duty of adults in Scouting. Youth can act as a force-multiplier, but it is not their responsibility to insure safety except in a moral sense. The Youth Protection AV even states that all "discipline" is an adult responsibility. That would seem to be a misstatement (AKA "blunder") in view of other current, more detailed and more specific statements about the responsibility of youth leaders.
  9. If we judge by what BP in fact said repeatedly, it is difficult to see that "absolute mastery of Scoutcraft" was the goal or the method. In fact, BP warned against such thinking: "The examination for Badges is not competitive, but just a test for the individual. The Scoutmaster and the examiner must therefore work in close harmony, judging each individual case on its merits, and discriminating where to be generous and where to tighten up. Some are inclined to insist that their Scouts should be first-rate before they can get a Badge. That is very right, in theory; you get a few boys pretty proficient in this way- but our object is to get all the boys interested. The Scoutmaster who puts his boys at an easy fence to begin with will find them jumping with confidence and keenness, whereas if he gives them an upstanding stone wall to begin, it makes them shy of leaping at all. . . . There is always the danger of Badge-hunting supplanting Badge-earning. Our aim is to make boys into smiling, sensible, self-effacing, hardworking citizens, instead of showy, self-indulgent boys. The Scoutmaster must be on the alert to check Badge-hunting and to realize which is the Badge-hunter and which is the keen and earnest worker. Thus the success of the Badge System depends very largely on the Scoutmaster himself and his individual handling of it." "Moreover, there is only one standard by which a boy is judged as qualified for a badge, and that is the amount of effort he puts into his work." Further, as BP expressly and repeatedly said that the purpose of Scouting was to develop good citizens, it is difficult to see that absolute mastery of Scoutcraft was more than an aspirational side-effect. "Scouting is a game for boys, under the leadership of boys, in which elder brothers can give their younger brothers healthy environment and encourage them to healthy activities such as will help them to develop citizenship."
  10. OK. Another day; another chance to read. They are "recommendations," not requirements or rules: "recommendations on the chart below." EXCEPT, that last paragraph ("Youth or adults are not permitted . . ." etc.) Still -- what? - lazy (good word.) Still, I think, for appearance sake to ward off the plaintiff's bar..
  11. By adding "appropriate" as a modifier, there are no clear standards for protective equipment, but it sounds like there is a concern for "safety." Any decisions made locally are subject to institutionalized second-guessing. Pretty cynical. Citing O.S.H.A. without actually saying B.S.A. has elected to voluntarily adopt O.S.H.A. is equally cynical. Or inept. Likely inept. _________________________________________________ Couldn't lead a panic if the End of the World were announced.
  12. The facts we are given include the fact that this scheme to commit battery on several children was foiled by this "person involved in Scouting." I see no facts to indicate that this concerned parent is individually responsible for "discipline" or that Commissioned Scouters cannot handle it. (All "discipline" is said now, unhelpfully, to be the exclusive province of "adults.") I do understand a level of concern that may not be totally satisfied by, "Let the SM handle it." Imagine that the planned battery had actually occurred. Whose non-delegable duty would it have been, according to B.S.A., to report to the "local authorities"? "All persons involved in Scouting . . . [who] may not abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person."
  13. The debriefing seems to absolutely be key to a growth experience. Our Scouts will face temptations that draw them away from good values. The perfect person may not understand. But if you have felt the pull of the Dark Side . . . The first time I saw it done, the staffer running the Game was dressed like Mr Scratch himself - black tail coat. You could almost smell the sulfur. ("You know you want it!) But he, too, was key. He had to know when to stop tempting and start turning the participants back to Scouting values. (He did a great job.)
  14. If two Scouts don't fit in the patrol, why are they there? It's supposed to be a natural "gang" - a group that wants to be together (at least most of the time.) If they are miserable, change. It's the school system that forces groupings and Scouting is supposed to be very different.
  15. Scouting starts with the patrol, not the activity. I would proceed as if this was a brand new troop. It was not a Scout Troop from what you say. It was an adult-run club for boys. Actually, it's a great opportunity. A patrol is supposed to be a group of boys who want to pal around together in the outdoors. Have each boy write on a piece of paper the names of the 4,5,6,7,8 boys they would like to be in a patrol with. With the SPL and several of the older boys, use this information to group the boys in provisional patrols with the goal that every boys is in a patrol with at least two of the boys on his list. (If they are not at the stage where they will have the basis of preferences, you need group-forming activities so they can get a feel each other.) Give them a talk about the Patrol Method and what a Patrol leader is supposed to be and do (lead; set the example; teach skills; represent the patrol to the Leaders and the adults. (Get it? "leaders" vs. "adults." Always call Scouts in leadership positions "leaders." Adults are "adults" or "Scouters" and never "leaders." Words have power.) Have them meet as patrols and elect their PL's. Advise the PL's to wait awhile before naming patrol members to APL, QM, Scribe etc. Have them meet as patrols several times and take a couple of hikes as patrols (That will take resources, so somewhere in there the adults have to be informed about what Scouting is. It usually comes as a surprise.) The new patrols need names, flags, and a cheers/yells/songs/yells. THEN have the patrols come together as a troop. Even then, use every opportunity for them to function as separate teams. Always patrols first! A Scout should belong to his patrol, not the collection of patrols called a "troop." It is usually backwards in this declining age of Scouting. If the adults are not trained, they WILL screw it up. It is in the nature of an adult to lead every child in reach. They need to know -- and accept -- that the objective is boys doing things, not having those things done to an adult standard. Those "things" include trying knots, planning program, and every single bit of the leading that is not literally dangerous -- the kid cooking, not the adult-quality meal. (Slightly over-done food does not kill. Heck, they charge more for it these days.) Best of luck. You are doing God's Work, and somewhere Bill Hillcourt is smiling on you.
  16. "What did the other 73 staff do?" There were four other staff assigned to waterfront at all times. They had endless water-balloon fights at the waterfront building - a good 80 yards from the water -- when they ere not sun-bathing or napping. The rescue rowboat had its oarlocks locked up in the camp headquarters 'so they won;t be snitched." That was a good ten minutes round trip away at a good run. Beginners were allowed to take canoes out behind an island where they could not be watched. The Canoeing MB folks, on the other hand, first got in a canoe on Friday. Our troop's two former BSA Waterfront Directors could impose safety but not staff effort or competency. The Scoutcraft Area Director was super in every respect - but had no say in selection of his staff of eleven Scouts. He confided in me on Wednesday that the eleven, combined, might not be able to pass First Class, but there they were as "Merit Badge Counselors." The head First Aid staffer told the kids the first day that "sunstroke and heat exhaustion are the same and are treated the same." It went downhill from there. The three staff assigned to Pioneering were not allowed to build anything after the 24 foot tower they build using binder twine fell over the first Sunday of camp. (No one was badly hurt.) They also were looking in the MB pamphlet as they tied knots. The Area Director started asking for help Tuesday night. The PD showed up on Thursday and asked me where the Camping MB Counselors were. I told him I had sent them to find some wood. He said "OK," and left. Other areas (Field Sports; Cope and Climbing; Nature; Crafts) seemed to be running just fine. The Field Sports Director had refused some of the staff he was given ("totally useless"). As an "icon," he could get away with this. The Cope and Climbing guys were real pros and had been selected by the Council No. 2 after problems the previous year (same PD then. The PD was mailing it in. And he was not alone. The last 1/3 of the troops got no lunch Wednesday. "We ran out. Sorry." He did not go back.
  17. goheelz, it is interesting how different camps make different use of the human resources that show up with units. Some survey in advance in the style of the old Troop Resource Survey. They then plan the week including these transitory "staff" - contacting you in advance to discuss what you can do to help. At the other extreme, one camp made it very very clear that the help of "outsiders" was neither required or desired. As it developed, the first opinion was very wrong and the second went away by Wednesday of that first week of camp. By Wednesday, one of our parents, a paramedic, was running First Aid and Safety, when it turned out the staff didn't know much about either topic. Two of our adults were running the Waterfront. (The official staff of two was being overwhelmed. Two staff present at any one time - with two levels of swimming, Swimming MB, Life-Saving MB, Canoeing, Canoeing MB rowing, Rowing MB, Mile Swim and Small Boat Sailing. Repeated "emergency" camp assemblies for head checks due to Buddy Board failures.) What happened after we left is sad to think about. And that camp had fantastic physical facilities -- perhaps the best I have seen -- and a staff of about seventy-five. Hopeless PD.
  18. I second the comments on "Friendly,"" "Courteous," and "Kind." Do not forget "Trustworthy," as it has customarily come to be forgotten in the interest of marketing Merit Badges. When it comes to Merit Badges, stress quality over quantity. If you don't have a qualified staffer, do not offer the badge - period. If the staffer can only handle ten candidates, ten it is. Since National Council has indicated that Merit Badges not given in accordance with the rules have not been "earned" for any purpose, the "Merit badge Mill" days appear to be on their way out. That means earned MB's - qualified Counselors doing individual testing on all Merit Badges. Don't want to tell the customers there is no room for more in First Aid? You do NOT want to have the conversation with the parents about why the Scout is not advancing after all. You really don't.
  19. Too true about the level of writing skill demonstrated. 0___0
  20. But the "as indicated" at this location http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/06I.aspx suggests the beads may only be worn with the previously-mentioned Wood Badge neckerchief. As noted, the link to Wood Badge information here http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/topic-index.aspx is dead.
  21. I find this language, or very close to it, at multiple Council sites, "Wearing the Wood Badge Beads After your beads are presented, you wear them only with the field uniform the main "official" uniform, with the khaki or yellow or green shirt. You do not wear your beads with activity uniforms, t-shirts, or any civilian wear. (If you are wearing the beads and then decide to take off the field uniform shirt and just wear a t-shirt, you can tuck the beads under the t-shirt so they dont show but they also dont get lost.) You may wear your beads with the Gilwell neckerchief (dove-grey with MacLaren tartan patch) and Turk's head knot woggle, or with your troop/district/OA neckerchief and slide, or you may wear your beads with no neckerchief. For formal events, you would typically wear your beads with the Gilwell neckerchief and woggle. Wearing the Gilwell neckerchief and woggle are more limited. They stay together. You dont wear the Gilwell neckerchief with a different slide, and you dont wear the woggle with a different neckerchief. And if you wear them, you need to wear the beads, too. Wood Badge beads are always worn on a leather thong which is tied in an overhand knot. When worn with a neckerchief, the thong is placed under the shirt collar, followed by the neckerchief; thus the thong is worn under the neckerchief. The beads are then brought in front of the neckerchief and displayed below the woggle. Some Scouters thread the thong through the woggle before placing around the neck. If you cross the beads under the woggle and pull the ends of the neckerchief through loop formed, then the beads will appear immediately under the woggle without shifting." See also: http://www.scoutinsignia.com/wbneck.htm Interestingly, the Wood Badge section of the on-line Insignia Control Guide at Scouting.org is currently dead.
  22. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $121.65 short. ^___^
  23. "Uniform" in the rest of the world: the same; distinctive common dress. "Uniform" in B.S.A.: sold by B.S.A. at some point. So what is it really all about now? My Council has had twelve CSP's from 2010 to date and is about to launch no. thirteen. The trouser circus has been mentioned , but there are also multiple Scout shirts currently, not to mention the back-and-forth on shirts and trousers since the 102d anniversary of Scouting in the U.S. I would be in favor of "uniform" in it's non-B.S.A. meaning because I think uniforming has benefits in a team sport.
  24. And by what behavior do you "throw the axe"?
  25. I do not see how submitting credentials years later is more "ripe for abuse" than the current system for Scouts. Implicitly, the same standards will be applied to the much-more-difficult task of credentialing late. One either can produce the goods to the present standard or not.
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