TAHAWK

A minor point, but computers that use floppies are pretty cheap on ePrey. I bought a rebuilt for $89 delivered. A solution to my laziness in failing to copy the floppies to digital disks.

I recalled incorrectly. The story about the soldier in India who "worked his ticket" by running about naked around the church was by Frank Richards, author of Old Soldiers Never Die and Old Soldier Sahib. Also found this: [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

And the same can be said of Islam, where each believer communicates directly with Allah and there seems to be no particular qualification for issuing religious decrees according to the author's understanding. If BSA ever said that, it has also said contradictory things, and then there are the Jains and Buddhists. Add the fact that Some self-identified Humanists absolutely deny that Humanism is in any way a religion: {quote] The most critical irony in dealing with Modern Humanism is the tendency for its advocates to disagree on whether or not this worldview is religious. Those who see it as philosophy are the Secular Humanists while those who see it as religion are Religious Humanists. This dispute has been going on since the beginning of the twentieth century when the secular and religious traditions converged and brought Modern Humanism into existence. American Humanist Association. http://americanhumanist.org/Humanism/What_is_Humanism So who gets the last word? A judge? The ACLU? And if Humanism is a religion, can anyone teach Humanist philosophy in a public school during class? And if so, when do the reformed Druids get equal access to the kids? I find more examples of Christians, for attack purposes, insisting that Humanism is a religion than I find Humanists espousing that view.

Any questions?

This SM sounds much too controlling to offer a fun, successful experience. It is almost secondary that he is wrong about the Merit Badge process. B.S.A.:

+10

So the Army is the final word in things legal? The Navy? USBP? Was not always thus in ACLU Land. And a federal judge is a federal judge. Was his opinion in a published opinion and order? If not, it has no presidential value even in the district in which His Honor sits.

1. How to stay just warm enough / dry. This skill set can be learned in day outings in Winter. Subtopics: proper clothing (head, torso, legs, feet, hands); ventilation; changing socks/liners; staying hydrated 2. How to sleep just warm enough. This skill set can be learned "sleeping out" in the back yard in Winter. Subtopics: proper tentage; tent siting; tent-pitching; sleeping bags or substitute; insulation under the sleeper; keeping tent dry (keeping snow/rain outside & ventilation) 3. Menu/Cooking outdoors in the Winter. Again, this can be learned on day outings or in back-yard practice. 4. Top tips. Items such as the virtues of hot water bottles, boot tops under the sleeper at night, water bottle carried under the outer layer, danger of handling liquid fuels, and a host of Winter-camp-proved suggestions. If you use Okpik, be sure to use the current version. Older versions had some ideas that have been rethought, such as using open-cell foam (AKA sponge) to make sleeping bags.

According to current BSA policy, a “patrol†is a “small group of . . . friends."

Is your problem ASM trained? If so, have you discussed what he believes he was taught about the proper role of adults in Scouting? That might be informative for your training staff. The old requirement that the learner answer a series of questions about Scouting after the practical course was intended to se if the understood Scouting principles before hanging beads around their necks.

Well, then you can rule on whether this organization qualifies: http://rdna.info/ (^___^)

I have heard back from a veteran Miami valley Council Wood badger, and he has never heard of the Hillcourt course. He got his beads in 1984, so I would think he would have heard on Hillcourt showing up to run a course there in 1987. It could be the camp was near Dayton but was not Miami Valley's camp. Really need my source to find the papers

Doing scorn is easy. But I would rather have one MattR than a dozen H. L. Menckens

The exception in G2SS had to be read in light of the language in the required Local Tour Permit Application: I don't keep all the old old forms, but this language appeared as far back as 1996 on BSA Form 34426: While I do not have for forms for 1981-1995, this language, or something like it, was the basis of my council's requirement of adults being "present" on any outing requiring a Tour Permit, which was, according to BSA, any "Day trip," "Short-term camp," or "long-term camp." Dislike it as you will and try to lawyer around it as you might, it's clear as to any campout, legends to the contrary notwithstanding. I assumed that a patrol day hike was not a "trip" My theory was that it was better to ask for forgiveness than permission. I would appreciate seeing any documentation to the contrary. Ed: 1994 Form had the same language.

Stosh invokes the memory of the man whose title was "Minister of Propaganda" and who is often cited as creating the label of "Big Lie" for a certain propaganda tactic. Actually, it was Uncle Adolph who said that if one tells a "colossal" lie few would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." The tactic was used by "Big Brother" in 1984. It is studied in journalism schools and national capitals to this day.. I do not agree that invoking Herr G really fits. It seems more a matter of what the media elect not to cover that outright lying - ignoring whatever would hurt the side they pimp for. (Sorry that I split the infinitive from its object.) There is also the matter of confabulation - creating a fantasy world because reality is so painful - like Tom Brokejaw telling the world last night that the election results compel the R's to give the President more of what he wants. And then there is ignorance. That could explain the repeated references to "machine guns" or "assault weapons" and showing pictures of fully-automatic weapons firing when the murderers among us have semi-automatic weapons and, in fact, mostly use hand guns. (Life NRA member and vet John F. Kennedy surely knew the difference.) Then there is unconscious bias by people who just know they are superior types to the ignorant masses. So the deliberate practitioners of the Big Lie, like Michael Moore and Michael Savage, seem in the minority. Maybe just call the media "propagandists." Further, Stosh, it is not the Big Lie as defined by Hitler because the credibility of the media is right down there with politicians and used car salesmen. Almost everyone knows they are misleading. In the last gallup pole I can find, confidence in TV news was at 19% That may help explain the disconnect between media support of candidates and election results. Rather than Nazis, it may be more apt to hopefully invoke a Republican who said that you "cannot fool all of the people all of the time."

Apparently, one has to first find out what kind of Humanism. This is the site of the "no supernatural" type: http://americanhumanist.org/Humanism/What_is_Humanism The cited opinion is unpublished and is not a judgment on the merits and thus has no value as precedent under the rules of the court.. Interestingly, the defendant prison already had a category of "religious assignment titled "atheist." The individual plaintiff wanted to be labeled "Humanist" and sued when the prison took the position that "atheist" covered his type of "Humanist."

Sorry; pet peeve time: To have uniforming you first need a uniform. We have not had one in generations - since ODLR. And it has gotten worse in recent years. 18 possible combinations of shirt and shorts/trousers in currently sold garments alone . Not to mention no-longer-sold parts still said to be "uniform." 1. Shirt.. Tan dark enough not to show every stain. BSA branded shorts, trousers, and socks optional. Encourage all you want: "A Scout is." Stop all the "A Scout is not" stuff. Declare victory. Epaulets as part of drastically reducing the need to sew things on the shirt. Badges of office (that change) - clip on epaulet. Patrol colors (that can change) - clip on epaulet. Temporary patches (that are temporary) - hang on pocket button. Forget the International patch. It used to mean something and is now meaningless. The Jambo patch to be temporary as it is solely for attendance, not accomplishment. That leaves U.S. Flag, CSP (that should not change every six months), OA flap, and Unit number; they can stay on first to last for any given shirt. Or try velcro. 2. As a matter of personal prejudice, make a uniform hat (not cap) a part of the Uniform - with a medium floppy brim as BP wanted instead of what the wanna' be Field Marshall wanted. Should cost about $14.99 not $ the $30-40 last time BSA tried and found out (Surprise!) there was not much interest at that 400% of market price. 3. Square cotton necker sized to allow it's use instead of just a decoration.

In the view of many councils, and for many years before the amendment of the G2SS to make it unmistakable, Tour Permits required two deep adults "present." So if the patrol campout needed a Tour Permit. adults were required as well. Such was the ruling in my council from at least 1981 forward. For the vast majority of patrols, few worthwhile campout opportunities existed without a Tour Permit. For one thing, public property for campouts by minors not escorted by adults is exceedingly rare. The "distance" is in the minds of the people involved. If you imagine that adults anywhere within scream range is awful, you probably believe that the adults cannot be far enough away to have it count as "independent" in any practical way. They must have stayed at home or gone home. If the adults are trained to leave the Scouts totally alone unless real danger threatens, they can easy be "far enough" to have little impact on how the patrol functions. But only a minority, perhaps a small minority, are so trained. BSA's message on separate patrol activities is inconsistent. Recognition of patrol camping is a superior idea, as would be recognition of a troop's use of the Patrol Method (AKA "Boy Scouting") -- if BSA would ever say what that is in any remotely measurable way.. Why such recognition has to replace the temporary insignia for Jamboree participation is not obvious to me. Could it replace the Arrow of Light instead? ^___^

I think its safe to say that BSA has never been clear about what is required under the labels "Reverent" and "duty to God." And that's just fine with me. I have encountered some who think it's all crystal clear.

I cannot find BP ever using the expression. I find many examples of the meaning of working the system by faking a disability to get out of the military. So I have offered some evidence to prove the negative - that the myth is just that. How about any evidence that it meant what the myth says it meant? Six hours on Google for me and not one instance outside the Happy Land of it meaning anything other than working the system. So: Ensconced in a trench along the Western Front, Blackadder tried every trick in the book to work his ticket home. However, hampered by his imbecile lieutenant, ... When I was an RAF Regiment flight commander one of my blokes confessed to me that he was homosexual, and wanted to get out of the service (homosexual acts were a criminal offence even in civvy street then). I was naive and sympathetic and told him I'd see what could be done. I had a quiet word with the squadron WO who told me the bloke was no more homosexual than I was (I wasn't!) and he was just trying to "work his ticket". He was, in their eyes, the perpetual malingerer, the deadbeat, the shyster who was, no doubt, trying to work his ticket. He was trying to work his ticket as they wouldn't let him out any other way. He was up before the Commodore in Pompey Barracks when he ... "What happened was that (the lad in question was) a chap that everyone believed was trying to work his ticket by declaring he was a Quaker some time prior to ... Slightly off topic I heard about a Royal Navy sailor who tried to "work his ticket by claiming to suffer from incredible sea sickness,in a way it ... I suspected that he was endeavouring to secure a discharge from the Army on medical grounds - a practice customarily referred to as "trying to work his ticket". Eddy Hooks who had by now become a 'barrack room lawyer' said “There was nothing wrong with him, he was just trying to “Work his ticketâ€Â. Think of Cpl Max Klinger in MASH and you have the essence of "working your ticket." UK commentary on MASH

Please do. I might have missed it. He did quite a bit in the military after India, Colonel by 40; Major General by 43. Inspector general of Cavalry by 46. Then he started Boy Scouting. ^___^ Retired at 53 to lead Scouting full-time.

Yes. That's the myth - and incorrect. Outside of the Happy Land, "working your ticket" to the British military was, and is, faking a disabling condition so you would be shipped home before your enlistment was up. Kipling wrote a story about an unhappy soldier in India who, after trying other misbehavior, "worked his ticket" by running naked around the church as the officers and their wives came out after Sunday service. He was sent home as a raving loony. Months later, he wrote his mates in India, quite happy at how he had, as we might say, "worked the system." I have discussed this issue with Gilwellians at Blue Springs reunion who are retired Canadian Forces types. They know what "work your ticket" means in the military and have no idea why it turns up in The Song. I wrote Troop 1 HQ, was acknowledged, but heard no more.told they were checking, but heard more. So I'm going to work the system if I can. ???? Most of the British Army's regiments served in India at one time or another. When your foreign tour was up, the UK military paid your travel expenses to return home. So the entire rationale for the Myth makes zero sense to a military historian.

1. Patrol Identity: the patrol comes first. The patrol is the "team" in the game of Scouting. The troop is a league in which some of the teams play. Sometime the patrol plays with other teams in the league or other leagues.. 2. A patrol is a “small group of . . . friends.†They pick the membership according to their wishes. 3. A patrol has an indefinite life span. It is NOT an ad-hoc or temporary grouping. 4. Scouts lead: Youth leadership is not optional. 5. Scouts elect the key leaders and those leaders appoint the rest of the leaders. 6. Adults train leaders, teach, coach, mentor, and gather resources. Adults do not plan the program or lead it. DISCUSSION DRAFT