TAHAWK

(Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.) So what is the "best" - the "fire" - in Scouting? __________________________________________________________________________________________________ What might BSA do if the Patrol Method were important to BSA?

"How fire works" is both a practical and science topic. "Practical" because knowing some of the science is useful in knowing how to get a fire started.

At least two things may be at work. 1. Having a position filled on paper, with a "good Scouter" [$$$$] if possible, is the actual goal - not having it filled with a performer-. My old district has a Program Chairman who has done nothing anyone has noticed, and he was just "elected" to his third year of nothingness. He went over two years before recruiting a Cub Training Chair. This good and willing Cub Scouter was immediately told by our DE that he "had to run" Scoutmaster Specific Training, despite having never even participated on the Scouting side, This Program Chair just found a Scout Training Chair. As a result, two training events have happened in over two years (two INDOOR Baloo sessions, and, God help me, I staffed both imitation events). Our District Commissioner served two years and never found anyone to run roundtables - Cub or Scout. He did find paper UC's for 1/3 of our units. My old troop has had a visit from a UC - actually twice in 28 years. But it was a relatively strong unit and usually had no UC assigned, as is the case since our new super-district was formed. We now have a new DC. One hopes. 2. People trust and recruit known performers - until they die or otherwise go away. Either factor can be -- and has been - poison. We need the best quality volunteer staff regardless of whether they are James West Fellows or not,. We need to stop pretending about whether a position is actually filled. And we need to constantly bring in new players for the future. We can fix these problems with quality leadership at the top or, to a lesser extent, partially remediate them in spite of incompetent leadership at the top. But not if we give up. _______________________________________________________________ What might BSA do if the Patrol Method were important to BSA?

I think he was talking about a consequence of "the" decision, not a cause, and a consequence that itself has consequences. My troop was called N888er-lovers because we sponsored and camped with an all-black troop from Watts. Scouting was called "Pinkos" and "Comsymps" by the John Birch Society because we raised $$ for UNICEF, had integrated units, and offered a "World Brotherhood" Merit Badge. We live or die on the quality of the program we offer. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ What might BSA do if the Patrol Method were important to BSA?

Matt, a DE's job is to raise money in the short term through begging, selling goods, and membership fees. Having the employees focus on better units would require convincing BSA to abjure the short-term goal of raising money in favor of the longer-term goals of better training and program, leading to better units. To be as fair as possible would require acknowledgement of the old saw about alligators and draining swamps. It's the volunteers' job to build better units. The volunteer leadership in two of the districts where I help is pretty weak. That leadership, for the most part, is selected by the employees of councils. A "good Scouter" used to be someone who often agreed to take on a job in Scouting and did well at those jobs. Now, the primary consideration is how much money the volunteer contributes to making payroll. So we have "good Scouters" in the top leadership, and they do not do well as leaders.

BSA has done many studies about what variables correlate with "success" (differently defined over the decades). The variable with highest correlation with success is training - not infrastructure - not money raised- not numbers of employees. Well-trained adults and leaders (i.e. Scouts) put on good program. Good program attracts members. Boring program that offers nothing distinctive out-processes membership. Numbers of person using wilderness areas are at an all-time high. Interest in being in the wilderness is at an all-time high. Talented leadership would see that training is critical instead of merely an item on a check list. The promised district-level youth training syllabus is thirteen years overdue. The new Scoutmaster Specific syllabus to replace the current wreck is still not out. The outdoor program is said to be the method that best meets BSA goals, but there is no advanced outdoor program training, much less required advanced outdoor training. Powderhorn is closest, but not it. Talented leadership would see the need to do what other national Scout organizations do - directly recruit adults. Talented leadership would REQUIRE use of the Patrol Method, recognize those who use it, and those who fail to do so. I have put this question to BSA: "If the Patrol Method were important to BSA, what might be done?" If we are going to go down, how about at least trying Boy Scouting?

The official word: Mr Capp is identified by Scouting [magazine] as the National OA Chairman.

The troop sponsor when I was a Scout and young Scouter was a Methodist Church. Once a month, Scouts carried the flags in the opening procession, including the Methodist flag. One Sunday Joseph Brunton was sitting in the front row and did not seem concerned. It would never have occurred to me that there was an issue. I join the consensus.

The 8-person kit you are describing ("Trail Chef Cook Kit" ) no longers seems to be made. A 6-person aluminum kit is widely available, for example from Amazon. There is also an 8-person kit with 8 cups but no plates. The troops I have been with since 1981 used the plates only for serving since each Scout brought his own bowl, cup, and spoon. They usually left all but 3-4 of the plates at home base.

You have probably seen this: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-625.pdf http://www.scouting.org/Home/GuideToAdvancement/BoardsofReview.aspx ​

There seems to be no study on the subject. Scouting has been going on here since 1908. I am sure I have not heard of lots of Scouting stuff since I didn't join until 1954, and this although I volunteer with a Scouting museum. The newspaper clippings (starting to fall apart) from the early years are full of reports of Scout athletic leagues . Cleveland could be an outlier, but it seems odd to be to think Cleveland was that out-of-step with the rest of the country, It was one of the first "First Class" councils and was visited by BP and BSA's Darth Vader. There is some evidence of team sports in the early years outside NE Ohio. : http://www.shelbycountytexashistory.net/Shelby/schools/1920basketball.htm History of Princeton Troop 43 "A report in 1933 sounds a note familiar to Scouters. The Scoutmaster made an appeal for Scouts to wear their uniforms to meetings, consisting of knee pants and long stockings! During Boy Scout Week, which commemorated the more than five million Scouting members that year, our Troop celebrated with a basketball game against a YMCA team." I have a picture of a Japanese-American basketball team of Troop 84, Salt lake City before WW II, but can;t seem to post in here. BSA sponsored a manual of how to pitch in baseball authored by Christy Mathewson. Not much need to know how to pitch without a team for which to pitch. Boy's Life for August, 1912, had four articles on how to play baseball. The cover showed a batter and catcher. In 1926, every troop in Manitiwoc, WI sponsored two basketball teams. http://images.library.wisc.edu/WI/EFacs/MTWCImages/OccSeries/Monograph48/reference/wi.monograph48.i0001.pdf Brewster N.Y. Troop 1 [still in operation and another troop older than BSA] had a baseball team. May 5th[1911]: “The Boy Scouts have organized a ball team that listens like the goods. They will cross bats with the Pawling Scouts on the Electrazone Field at 1 o’clock to-morrow afternoon†(The Brewster Standard, page 5, 5-5-1911) May 12th: “Boy Scouts at Baseball†“Pawling’s bunch of Boy Scout baseball players were big fellows but no match for our lads when it comes to playing the national past game. Brewster 14 / Pawling 6 “(The Brewster Standard, page 1, 5-12-1911) Nov 24th: “A Boy Scout Hockey Team is being organized. The evening meeting is at the Town Hall. The Saturday hikes will be inaugurated to-morrow†(The Brewster Standard, page 6, 11-24-1911) In 1964, Angola, Indiana had a "Scout and Kids Baseball League." The troop sponsored by Grace Church in Sheboygan, WI had a basketball team. And, by the way, Juliette Lowe played basketball with her troop's team. If you prowl the records of your local newspapers for the early years of Scouting, I'll bet you find what I find In Cleveland's press records.

Scout team sports leagues were a big part of the early years of Scouting. The troop I was with for 27 years was founded in 1908. By 1914, it had two basketball teams in regular Scout league Competition.. I have not reviewed the newspaper clippings to see about other seasons. Years later, when I was A Scout, our district had a softball league and a touch football league. (The championship in California's rainy season, was the "Mud Bowl" - and it was.)

Yup. So many aspects of traditional Scouting have disappeared.

Program is supposed to be fun and interesting so it attracts boys who can then be guided to be better people and better citizens who are mentally and morally fit. Team athletics was a huge part of early Boy Scouting, with some troops having two or even more teams - many patrol teams - competing in Boy Scout leagues. Baseketball, with its smaller teams and suitability during Winter weather, was especially popular. My preference is for a stronger outdoor program, but anything that gets boys firmly in a patrol gives Scouting better access to those boys.

The quality was higher when they were made by Doan in Cleveland, But Doan couldn't meet the cost set of the RFP, ao the work wnet elsewhere - and the quality went as well.

There is no uniformity requirement.

There is no historic evidence that James West helped write the Fieldbook. His name "went on" many publications.

Beyond safety: >the CC's job is to run the Committee. >your job is to train the leaders (Scouts) and to be their resource, coach, and mentor. The classic advice is to praise publicly and criticize privately. Who addresses "doing wrong" depends on what sort of "wrong" it is. Scout's tent is a mess? Leader's (PL) job. PL screaming at Scouts? Occasion for private counseling of PL on effective leadership.

Probly' still has all his hair. )-;

qwazse !! Size 13 ? ! 0___0 Size 8 is a 25" circumference head. Size 13 would be about a 45" head. No wonder you have room for so many ideas. What's your shoe size? My oldest Smokey hat still has the price tag -- $7.95. It was a gift. Faded from wear in California. Not much use here in Ohio. When it isn't raining or ear-freezing weather, it's usually too hot for a wool hat with two tiny vents, Not to mention all the "fun" time indoors.

Stop being logical !!!!

The 2014 Administrative Guide now provides: One could say that BSA has now recognized that taking the current version of Wood Badge is not essential to ability to teach that version. But how does getting the beads necessarily indicate ability to staff? What qualification is ever 100% ? Frankly, while I didn't think it was necessary, I did understand wanting one to take a course before having him teach that course, but that's just me. Stosh, you don't need an excuse. You long service earns you the right to accept jobs that make you happy - or happier. Scouting had jobs for people who didn't believe in the original version of Wood Badge. Imagine telling a SM for thirty years that he needed a course to teach him Scoutcraft through First Class. Absolutely insulting! As a Neighborhood Commissioner, I was supposed to sell the idea that those invited should want to attend. It was not an easy sell. Many invitees never accepted.

Not bald on top yet, are you? (^___^)

As Bill pointed out in explaining why the Scouts should pick their leader, the real answer to the question, "Who is the leader?" is "Whoever leads." As an historic example, Teddy Roosevelt was not, on paper, the commander of the regiment called the "Rough Riders." He was its leader. Assuming that you are the elected leader of your patrol, it sounds like one member of the team does not want to go along with the democratic decision . The ASPL (who should not be in a patrol as noted) needs to understand his role in the team. He is not the Quarterback or Team Captain. If he cannot grasp this rather simple concept, he must go, Before someone decided on the label "servant leadership," the PL was still the elected leader, not any other member of the patrol. It has been basic to the Patrol Method for generations before Greenleaf's "Servant" label got added to the Scouting vocabulary. (But the notion that the PL "took care of his Scouts" was around as early as 1954 when I was taught that lesson. A final point. The patrol should decide who is in the patrol, not the SPL or some adult, A patrol is "a small group of friends," not some outsider's view of neat organization.