TAHAWK

Not only is Patrol missing, there are other changes. But the absence of Patrol as a method is the most troublesome.

I found these two letters that I thought y'all might find interesting. 1. "From: Victor Iwamura To: Graham Holland You bring up an interesting topic. The BSA in the USA is predominantly a Christian organization and have strong support by them. As Buddhists in the BSA, we have told our Scouts that they may substitute or be silent when it comes to saying "under God". We are trying to influence the powers that be here but it is a difficult struggle. I am going to the BSA meeting in October and will mention to them what you do. Victor Iwamura, Chair National Buddhist Committee on Scouting 2. From: Victor Iwamura To: Graham Holland I tell them when it's not comfortable with them. BTW: My only minor victory was when the PRAY organization which handles the religious awards was developing a religious patch for BSA, they were calling it "Duty to God". I objected and got consensus from the BSA Religious Committee and we agreed to "A Scout is Reverend" or A Scout is Faithful". The chair went and discussed it with others and they decided to keep the Title and work it outside the BSA sponsorship and promote it under PRAY. Basically the circumvented the decision by the committee and did it their way anyhow. Victor Iwamura, Chair National Buddhist Committee on Scouting Not sure of the date, but Mr. Iwamura still listed by BSA as the Chair of the National Buddhist Committee on Scouting. He is the President of the Sanmateo Buddhist Temple

Too late for edit with new software. 2104 it must remain. I kant tipe. I wish I could say it was old age, but I have always been awful. 2-finger T.

All sorts of folks, with or without any factual or logical basis, create lists. But I try to help. Here is Buddhism on a list of atheistic religions http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.htm And I gave three links to lists of one religion, Buddhism, created by Buddhists, that say they have no supreme deity.

I do not prefer viewing with alarm, but this is at least interesting. One of my Scouts found this and emailed me a link. ". . . We achieve our aims through the methods of Scouting – 1) instilling the values of the Scout Oath & Law; 2) adult association through positive role models; 3) providing peer leadership opportunities; 4) goal setting and achievement; 5) uniforms, which give youth a sense of belonging to something bigger than themselves; 6) providing opportunities for service to others and 7) outdoor activities. These methods develop positive traits and outcomes. . .. Wayne." http://scoutingwire.org/scoutings-next-105-years-youth-guided-innovation/ "Wayne," in this case, as most will know, is BSA's Chief Scout Executive. I immediately looked for the BSA website I had consulted many times that lists the BSA AIms and Methods . It still lists: Ideals Patrols Outdoors Advancement Adult Association Personal Growth Leadership Development Uniform This statement of eight methods is consistent with the current (2104) syllabus for Scoutmaster Position-Specific Training. So I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, but do I really want to know? I hope that we simply need to once again apply Hanlon's Razor.

In theory, and in practice based on Buddhists I have known, they are atheists. No God. No gods. No one to hear prayers. A Buddhist was my tent-mate for slightly over two years. Until that experience, I thought Buddha was the god for Buddhists. Wrong. He is venerated as an example of the supremely enlighten person and guide to correct thought and behavior. Given the low barriers to enrty, I am sure you can find someone saying Buddhists have a god, but even then see if this "god" is a creator deity. http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm http://www.aboutbuddhism.org/ http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm

IMO nowhere near expertise or proficiency, if beyond basic. If he relied on the Wilderness Survival MB pamphlet he would have been seriously misled on basic and critical issues.. 20 nights in the outdoors is a test of being in the outdoors. One can only hope for increase in skill. That's less than a year in a proper troop - 11 year-old. I rode to school on my bike for almost a school year before it broke - over 1200 miles' and I had no idea how to fix it. I was far from a proficient cyclist. Twenty miles walking - several times over - was walking to school when I could not fix my bike. (Today, I guess my parents might get arrested for not properly supervising me every peddle/step of the way. How does one "have" a "paper route" these days?) The tripod lashing illustration and directions are incorrect (although the directions used to be worse). Cooking three meals does not make a "cook." That's me getting home before Mom the first week of school and "starving." (Cooking MB back then could be done in half a day in your back yard.) "Scouting is a game for boys played in the outdoors". But it sounds like something he would have agreed with. (Well, more likely "Something with which he would have agreed.")

"And that is why BSA can state that you can not just be an atheist who respects the religious beliefs of others." But you can be an adherent to an atheistic religion that respects the religious beliefs of others.

2006 Version of BSA Board of Review Training http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-625.pdf

blw2, the purpose of Scouting, according to BP, was to educate boys to be good, fit citizens of the Empire. The outdoor program served those purposes and was attractive to boys, so it was the main method of Scouting as BP saw it. BSA has greatly changed BP's original program, for example by providing for the Scouts to elect their leaders and eliminating over time within its program the notion of African inferiority. (Other changes make me less happy, but I am prejudiced by experiences had and missed.) Girl Guides was founded by BP in 1910, named for the elite Guides regiment of the Indian Army. B-P's sister was its first national leader. Later his wife, Olave, a former Scoutmaster, was the Guides UK leader. Girl Guiding still exists as an all-girl program. Its highest award in the UK is the Baden Powell Challenge Award. In my opinion, whether an individual Eagle Scout is someone special depends. What it depends upon is not merely Merit Badges earned or otherwise obtained, although they may constitute some evidence to be used in making the determination. The troop they are in has much to do with what sort of ability, character, and accomplishments they represent. I have experienced both extremes of the range of troop sand Eagle Scouts. Limited as I am by personal experiences and beliefs, I think that, as a group, Eagle Scouts are much above average.

Certainly not always. Note the dates for 4-8. We were in the war.

Darth West aside, BSA has traditionally been troubled about a military image. To that end, even West dumped shooting MB's early on (Which upset Board member General Leonard Wood and the NRA.). BSA took a public position against using Scouting for military training. Wars came along, and BSA got more on board with things military, at least for the duration(s). 2008 The story we got from council about the change to subdued patches, which the military has worn in combat theaters since WW I, was that BSA asked the boys (Imagine !) and found they wanted less of a circus look.

The OD arrived when, during WWII, it was the only material readily available to BSA (which got special dispensation under rationing rules due to "war service."). I know some Scouters go nuts over camo. Not my cup of tea, but there surely must be somethings more important to worry over.

Must be mind-bending to deal with BSA behavior - actions - and BSA words that are inconsistent with some of BSA's other words. One definition of "religion" is worship of a supreme deity. As with "reverent" in BSA-speak, there are others definitions that do not include a supreme deity. Barry, atheist Scouts have been making Eagle for generations, and not just in troops that follow atheistic religions. http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/operating_orgs/Buddhist.aspx http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jun/30/local/me-64995 https://books.google.com/books?id=Af0DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=Buddhist+eagle+scout&source=bl&ots=xWQrcT1AIy&sig=Ix8Hoknzsdl6E1rhFIzUXmHvdxg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jUcxVfKLIfeNsQS6q4HYBA&ved=0CFMQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Buddhist%20eagle%20scout&f=false These Scouts understand:

Walking home from 3rd Grade (Remember that?) down an alley, I and two friends discovered the body of an elderly man who had died in his garage, We ran to tell the first adults whom we could find. I have not thought of that occurrence for years. He had a red bandanna in his hand. As a Scout, I was involved in several searches for missing persons. It was something Scouts routinely did back then. We were cautioned in advance that the missing person might be severely injured or even dead. As it turned out, our troop never found anyone. Finding a dead child would probably have been fairly disturbing.

"If kids today were to learn 10% of what my generation simply picked up along the way of life, our Paper Eagle designation would disappear." While I yearn for the days of much stronger outdoor program, a good many of the Merit Badge Mill MB's are not woods skill MB's. The rot goes deeper than high-ranking Scouts with weak outdoor skills. As for fires, how many fires did your patrol routinely start in a day, Stosh? At least 3-4, right? Now add "chemical stoves," still strongly discouraged when I re-upped in 1981. No practice any more. And I too have my paper Eagle horror stories, but they add nothing to those already told. On the other hand, an Eagle from my old troop organized over 6500 university students in the aftermath of 9/11 to supply food, drink, and wet towels to those at Ground Zero. I was very pleased but hardly surprised. Pat was one of the "real" Eagles, and you saw it coming when he was 11. "Only" 23 MB's because he was busy leading and busy at school (two Phd's now). It really would not take much. Real outdoor program training for adults and leaders (Scouts). Enforce the MB rules by making loss of certification the cost of the routine cheating that goes on. And absent corporate action, we can approximate those two national actions by organizing the training and by boycotting MB Mill camps, as my current troop is doing this year after three years of millery.

My wording was unfortunate. The BSA publishes a "Calendar of Religious Dates." You can see it here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/ReligiousCalendar.aspx It includes holidays of religions, including atheistic and polytheistic religions, who are allowed to register Scouting units and whose religious awards are recognized by BSA. There is a National Buddhist Committee on Scouting The function of the National Buddhist Committee on Scouting is fulfilled for Jains by The Federation of Jain Associations.... http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.jaina.org/resource/resmgr/scouting/jaina_fact_sheet.pdf "Official Approval for the Jain Religion Emblem Awards Program given verbally by Sub-Committee Chair Mr. Wray Johaninning on July 25th, 2011 with a double check pending from Mr. Chip Turner,Chair."): The Jain Scout Gold Medal: This award recognizes a Jain individual who has given an exceptional service in the use and promotion of local Scouting programs. Three years of service is minimum requirement. The Jain Scout Samaritan Medal: This award recognizes, children, youth, and young adults who serve others through outreach and humanitarian assistance. Recipients must be between the ages of 6-30. The Jain Center Recognition Medal: This medal honor Jain centers or Jain societies that provide outstanding promotion and support to their local communities. Boy's Life said: "One of the most recent programs to receive official BSA approval is the Jain Community of North America. Jainism is an Indian religion that focuses on healthy living through practices such as vegetarianism, yoga, meditation and environmentalism." Here http://www. scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/522-109.pdf are steps to organize a Jain unit in BSA. Here is the BSA giving contact information for religions, including atheistic religions. http://www.scouting.org/Home/Membership/Charter_Orgs/Religious.aspx There was a lengthy thread at Bryan's place that was characterized by individuals assuming the right to speak for the BSA and by persons taking BSA statements out of context by ignoring contradictory statements and contradictory behavior. Again, I am waiting to see what really happens, not what is published on occasion without reference to the contradictory statements and behavior.

We had Shinto kids in my troop when I was a Scout - five or six. Sons of Marines. Moms ruled in matters religious. They have multiple gods, including Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess and Goddess of the Universe, also direct lineal ancestor of the God Emperor. The Buddhists explained to me, as I have related here, that they did not join in "non-denominational" prayers because "There is no one to pray to." They were respectful since that was the Buddhist way. We had two Jains at NYLT last summer. Ditto, No god to pray to. The Universe was not created. It has always been and will always be. Three years ago, we had a Hindu at NYLT whose branch of Hinduism does not believe in a creator deity or any other gods. All BSA-accepted religions. Why worry about what this all means when BSA has made no clear statement on the subject without contradictory statements or actions? This is a matter for very local behavior until I actually see otherwise. Our Advancement Committee has told us that nothing has changed. If the BSA Inquisition shows up in NE Ohio, I will worry.

Are we arguing for changing the objectives of Scouting to add something about achieving outdoor skills? Wilderness Survival Merit Badge was once about being able to survive for some time in the woods. The information given was not in depth. That objective went away generations ago in favor of "modern survival." The current MB does not even approach that limited topic well. It ought to at least be about dealing with crisis. But the preent version, like the original, does not do that well. Hanlon's Razor cuts again.

Thank you, LeCaster. DT, as we are imperfect, there will be those who are imperfect - always assuming we are qualified to define perfection. It has been my honor to sit on dozens of EBORs. I have yet to observe any member who seemed to be trying to get a candidate in a position to "fail."

Yes, Chief.

I think goats are more popular, but you probably could use the same dip.

Good grief, Stosh. Where was this? The last Bell manual cord switchboard exchange in Ohio was gone in the 1960's, replaced by automated switching equipment. The mechanical automated equipment was then replaced by more modern "cross-bar" analog switching (The last fully mechanical central office was gone by the 1980's.) and then by digital equipment in the early 90's. Of course, there were several dozen tiny local telephone companies (36 still today), and Lord knows what service they offered. They often bought obsolete equipment from Bell at scrap prices as Bell removed it from its central offices.

I have used sulfur powder to keep chiggers off. I recall reading about using it for ticks when I was a kid.

BSA Board of review Training