TAHAWK

The Keynesian argues that the glass is half-empty, and that government needs to intervene to fill it up.

“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.â€

Tell me what I am missing. I just read the article again. Troop runs adult-led troop method for some period, apparently years. Adults allow experiment with just the youth-led part of patrol method. Things are, as Bill and BSA predict, chaotic. Adults determine troop is not "ready" for Boy Scouting. Boy Scouting is cancelled for another year. Adults decide to try again after more preparation. Things run more smoothly. Article concludes that youth leadership is a range of possibilities to be determined not by the Scouts or by BSA but by the adults in change. To quote the Commish, "Bull Puckey." This behavior by adults is directly contrary to statements by BSA over the last eighty-five years about what is to happen. BSA: "nless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.†I am not saying it is not a nice adult-run camping club, just not Boy Scouting.

Source: http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/Camping/WhoCanCome/CrewRequirements.aspx

The norm in my district when I was a Scout (1954-1961) was that the patrol normally met on its own every week and most of the "troop meeting" was spent in what today is called "Patrol Corners." We knew about, and pitied, the two troops that did not work that way. Every "voice" in Scouting at that time sent a consistent message about the centrality of the patrol and the patrol experience. The classic 1950 Handbook for Patrol Leaders was current. What I recall doing was planning activities, working on Scoutcraft (cooking disproportionately in my first patrol) and advancement, and preparing for competition in the troop, district and council. We almost always had a game, and there was, inevitably, some "messing around." 1970 seems like a key date for me, not because of VN and anti-war feelings but becasue that is about the date (really 1972) of The Improved Scouting Program. Masses of experienced volunteers voted on the drastic de-emphasis on the outdoors by quitting, and many of them seem to have stayed away when BSA had a regime change, retracted the NSP, and brought Bill back.

But if the adults take over, that is utter failure to provide Boy Scouting. In 1930 and today: "nless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.†I have seen adults behave in ways that showed they understood the difference between merely being within screaming distance and running the program. But in the 1950's and 1960's, at least in our council, adults were told in no uncertain terms that they had absolutely no right lead the program and would not be there again if they tried to do so. BSA needs to man up and lay it on the line by action., and the same needs to be going on in the districts and councils.

The need is to get beyond fair words -- policy -- to actual action -- practice. What can be done to encourage and recognize use of the Patrol Method? We can tell we have a long way to go when Scouting [magazine] ignores BSA policy and runs an article arguing that the Patrol Method is optional, at least until youth leadership can produce a well-oiled machine by adult standards. And I don't mean solely "done" by BSA. What can be done locally? Ribbon: "Patrol Method"? Ribbon" "Boy Scout Troop"?

Great words. How about these? The patrol method isn’t one way to run a troop. It’s the only way.†"nless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.†â€[T]hey [the patrol] self-select and they are friends….†"Scouts should be encouraged to invite their friends to join the troop and become a member of their patrol." “You set up a structure—six to eight Scouts—and let them figure it out... Boys are going to want to stick together if you can use their friendships to put together a team.†“Patrol spirit is the glue that holds the patrol together and keeps it going. Building patrol spirit takes time, because it is shaped by a patrol's experiences—good and bad.†“A patrol is that small group of boys and friends under their own leadership who plan and carry out . . . patrol meetings and activities.†“The patrol members camp together, cook together, play together, and learn together." “[The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.†“A patrol takes pride in its identity, and the members strive to make their patrol the best it can be.†“It’s the place where boys learn skills together, take on leadership responsibilities, perhaps for the first time . . . . “ “Patrols are where Scouts learn citizenship at the most basic level. . . . “ “Patrols elect their own leaders, and through these patrol leaders, Scouts have a voice in deciding what activities the troop will put on its calendar.†“The boys themselves develop . . . program, then take responsibility for figuring out how they will achieve their goals.†“Empowering boys to be leaders is the core of Scouting. Scouts learn by doing, and what they do is lead their patrols and their troop.†“The Scoutmaster and other adults with the Troop act as non-voting advisors and resources for the Scout leaders in their program planning.†“Our goal is not to get things done, but to create a safe and healthy environment with the training and resources that the Scouts need, and then let them do it.†“The role of the adults is not the destination, but the journey. That is, our responsibility as adults is to promote the 'process' of Scouting.†“Except as to matters of safety, neither adults nor Junior Assistant Scoutmasters directly supervise Scout work. Instead, they work THROUGH the leaders by teaching, advising, counseling, educating, and example.†“We just have to remember that our business as adults is not the same as the business of the boys. It is up to them to get things done. It is up to us to make sure they have what they need, but (within the bounds of health and safety) not what they do with it.†“Your Scoutmaster and other adult leaders will help Scouts become good leaders, then will step back and allow the troop’s youth leaders to take charge of planning and carrying out activities.†“It can be a very messy business, and painful to watch. Meetings where the boy leaders are in charge can be very chaotic. And it can be very tempting for adults to jump in and sort things out, because that is what adults do. But we have to remember that that is the process of Scouting. That is how they learn—even from disorganization and failure.†“Adults [sHOULD] understand that their role is to create a safe place where boys can learn and grow and explore and play and take on responsibilities—and fail, and get up and try again.†Boy Scouts of America, 2015

My current troop is not a Boy Scout troop - yet. My prior troop regarded Summer Camp as a great opportunity for cooking. Iron Chef Thursday became a big highlight. We went to a council camp every other year and usually ate lunch in the dinning hall/tent to: 1) have some contact with the camp culture; and 2) make it easier to make schedule events before and after lunch. And yes, dan, the Merit Badge Mills grind shamefully on.

I am on three district lists, and I get contacted every year and asked: 1) what MBs do I want to counsel; 2) am I still open to any candidate (which the districts encourage); 3) to confirm I am current on YPT. My impression from talking to Scouts and Scouters is that most Scouts go to counselors on their troop's separate list.

Per Bill and per BSA today: The patrol is supposed to be a largely self-selected team led by the leader they elect. As with the typical team, all the members have jobs - positions on the team. Scouts are supposed to primarily experience Scouting in the patrol context, not as a troop.. That requires patrol camping, hiking, and meetings, all planned democratically by the patrol members under the leadership of the Patrol Leader. NOTE: “Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements [and] [a]t other times they will compete against those same patrols in Scout skills and athletic competitions.†BSA 2015.[emphasis added] The troop is run, inclusive of annual and shorter-term planning, by a committee of Patrol Leaders, the PLC, chaired by the Senior Patrol Leader who is elected by the Scouts of the Troop. That committee alone plans the troop program. The SPL leads only the troop activities and only then while respecting the leadership of the Patrol leaders over their patrols. The PLC interacts with the Troop Commitee through the Senior Patrol leader, who presents the proposed annual program to the Troop Committee to seek its support. The Senior Patrol Leader fills the other troop leadership positions in consultation with the Scoutmaster. Adults have responsibility for safety and are otherwise resources, coaches, counselors, and mentors for the leaders of the patrols and troop, and they act as examples of Scouting Values. After Safety, the Scoutmaster's first responsibility is helping PL's and the SPL be good leaders. There are a range of techniques to make all of these things happen properly and well. (See above.) You have to know the destination to plan a successful route. BSA and Scouting are so very far from the words.

He's 6'1". 2XL shirt.

Recognition is also to encourage others to earn the awards. Still, there out to be some judgment exercised. Then there's the guy in my older council who has had the pockets on his uniform shirt custom lowered to create room for two more rows. He is regarded as a joke.

Sentinel947, on 13 May 2015 - 08:10 AM, said: "Then perhaps those who teach Wood Badge/IOLs/ Scoutmaster Fundamentals need to build the patrol method into the course, make room for it, even if it's not "officially" part of the syllabus." Eagledad, on 13 May 2015 - 2:26PM, said: "That's exactly why the old WB was closed." Eagledad, what do you mean by "that" and which "old" WB do you mean? There have been three major versions. Only the third is almost always a weekend course. I sure agree that understanding the Patrol Method in any meaningful way requires seeing it in action, but getting to that is aided by knowing what it is supposed to consist of, yes? We have to start somewhere with adults who lack exposure.

I'm sad that you're sad.

Funnily, one of my councils has insisted for many years that each district do its own IOLS. Probably a punch list item. That directive has always been ignored.

Some troops in my councils plan at least half their year around getting ready to compete in district events. They can do this becasue planning for the events is done months in advance. Do all troops need district or council program? Hardly. But some who need it still do not utilize it.

Eagle 94-A1, Brownsea Double Two (AKA Brownsea II or Brownsea 22 ) was a training course for Senior Patrol Leaders created by Bill Hillcourt and part of the back-to-basics push within BSA that he headed up under the banner of "All Out for Scouting" It was one indication of the death of the horrible "Improved Scouting Program." All Out for Scouting officially ended in 1980 and the Brownsea Double Two trained insignia was withdraw from further issue in 1982. Probably most here know the following. As the Cub outdoor program has significant differences from the Scout outdoor program, Scouters who will be leading Cub outdoor activities need some way to learn the cub program, even if they are world-class masters of Scout outdoor programming. In an effort to insure adult leadership that is trained in Cubbing outdoor program, BSA requires at least one Baloo graduate to be present at all times during a Cub outdoor event. One Scouter who took Baloo here last Saturday was an Eagle, Vigil, Philmont Crew leader, and former Canoe Base staffer. He seemed to have a great time getting ready to help lead outdoor program in his son's pack. Leadership in Service. My original Scouting mentor always had youth members of adult training staffs. He said that showing Scouts exercising responsibility was an good way to convince adults that Scouts could be trusted with responsibility. "Welcome Scouters. Our topic for the next fifty-five minutes is the annual program-planning workshop." (His idea of being prepared for encountering adults as a trainer included several practice presentations to "hostile" listeners and a "final exam" of the same plus occasionally being pelted with tennis balls.) Poor staff, however well-intentioned, leads to predictably low-quality training. I have, however, seen "participants" save the day when session staff was weak. Training as sharing is hardly the worst outcome. My two councils both offer Baloo in the Spring. One also offers OWL in the Spring and the other offers OWL in the Spring combined with IOLS. (The rationale is that there is so little difference that it works better together in terms of staffing and participant contribution.).

As is often the case, there was an OP in this thread that set the topic: "If a district was to start a new policy of picking a Troop's name out of a hat to hold the next camproee (no matter if that troop wanted to host or not) would your Troop participate? Before you answer, the hosting troop can not pick the theme or events, as the district will provide these to the troop, and if the Troop decides not to host, they are not allowed to attend that camproee." I should have been clearer. I was attempting to respond to the topic of the thread and, in doing so, joining in the general denunciation of the district proposal set out in the OP. Why successful? The SPLs come to the organizing meetings with proposals for event that are to be selected by the respective PCL's. The SPLs elect a Derby SPL to lead the Derby. He supervises the events and leads the campfire/award ceremony. The SPLs, acting as a committee, select the program for the Derby from the troop-proposed events by vote, following Robert's Rules of Order. A troop whose proposed event is selected, staffs the event. Typically, they practice it themselves and work out problems, judging practices and suggestions for participants. This replaced a long-standing practice where a single adult picked the events and then begged for staffing Friday night of the Derby. Staffing was thin and inconsistent between tours of duty due to lack of communication about judging standards. Further, problems with the events became apparent only when the events were running. Necessary supplies were often missing. Rules were changed in mid-day. Charges of unfairness were rife - and accurate. It has been twenty-three years since we started using this practice, and we can count the increased attendance compared to the old method, The consensus of all involved is that the Derby all runs much more smoothly than under the former practice. They coordinate just fine. We ask every year at roundtable if we should stuck with this approach. I cannot recall a vote not to do so.

Works just great for the last twenty-three years.

Our only district event is a Klondike Derby planned and led by the SPL's of the district's troops. They also, of course, run the individual events at the Derby. This approach seems like the opposite. A truly terrible concept hatched by people who do not understand what Boy Scouting is supposed to be.

Is there anyone else having anything like the same experience in your area? Much that you describe is what a friend is going through running a combined troop and pack in the central district of Cleveland, Ohio. If you could find someone like that, you could share ideas and resources - camp together. Perhaps someone at your local council could direct you to such a person.

The CO is a franchise-holder. BSA issues the franchise. Think of McDonald's Corporation vs Joe, who has a McDonald's store in Erie, PA.. Only Joe runs his store to do good works by employing the staff there. He is not nearly as interested in the store as those staff. Anyone can be sued for anything. Satan has been sued, as has God. Sue away. "Scouting," on the other paw, is a world-wide volunteer movement. What are we going to do with it?

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is part of the basic training for Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster. Yiou need credit for IOLS to be "trained" for those positions and, if the rules are applied, eligible to take Wood Badge.