TAHAWK

This is not a new issue, ian. You can't start an argument that has been going on since before the United States existed. .Cesare Beccaria wrote about it in 1764, and Thomas Jefferson cited Beccaria's argument. Google old Cesare and see what he said on the topic. (Essentially, when weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have weapons.) The most recent U.S. homicide rate, as noted by brother ian, is 3.55/100,000. That excludes suicides. The national homicide rate fell from 9.8 in 1991 to the recent 3.5. (Facts not discussed by the professionally-protected leaders of the disarmament movement.) During the period since the peak rate, several things have changed that are cited in discussing the precipitous fall: older population less lead poisoning fewer unwanted births many, many more firearms in civilian hands (U.S. citizens own over 250,000,000 firearms.) (In terms of permits to carry a concealed handgun alone, the number climbed from 4.6 million in 2007 to 12.8 million in 2015. (Source: Crime Prevention Research Center). My most dangerous experiences in Scouting involved near lightning strikes (x2) and having my troop pelted with baseball-sized pieces of railroad ballast by 10-12 teenage hoods from a railroad overpass in a public park in the middle of a city. (While not without risk, the wilderness seems safer than "civilization.") As for law enforcement and civilian armed self-defense, opinions differ in this democracy. Some law enforcement officials favor civilians being armed and some oppose that situation. The Chief of Police of Detroit strongly encourages civilian ownership of firearms, as does the Sheriff of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin. They support the observation that when seconds count, police are minutes away. I was told by a CPD Lieutenant that average response to a house burglar alarm call in Cleveland, Ohio is 45 minutes. Every rank-and-file cop I have ever talked to about this issue feels proper gun control only comes from systematic shooting practice. But, then, we have the last word already pronounced. It's not up to the police or the government. Like it or not, we have a right to protect ourselves. "We hold these truths to be self-evident . . . ." Anyone note that two armed civilians are credited with delaying the murderers at the university attack in Pakistan, one of them a teacher? CNN missed that event, but even the Washington Post gave it coverage.

All the parts of the Patrol Method as set out for Scouting in the U.S., primarily by Bill, are still found in B.S.A. literature and website statements. I have quoted the words repeatedly here, as have others. (Example: "nless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.") Unfortunately, those in charge of B.S.A. behave as if they are either unfamiliar with the material or no longer find it to be important to B.S.A.'s operational goal.

Many, including the SM of the troop I just left, think advancement - especially Eagle - is the goal of Scouting. It would seem to be a goal of B.S.A.. Note the increase in Eagles from 1% to 6 or 7% as membership declines. B.S.A. should forcefully remind adults that advancement is only a tool, not an objective, and that good people and good citizens are goals of Scouting, even if not as susceptible to metrics. But there are many things B.S.A. should forcefully say that remain only whispered - or totally unsaid. ____________________________ Try Boy Scouting. It might still work.

Dr. King? The Scouting icon. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/01/15/martin-luther-king-jr-was-a-boy-scout/ What was it that Dr. King got the Nobel Prize for? Why did we revolt from our lawful government? Did we win when our disobedience became orderly - organized?

Stosh, that is not all that he said. He wrote entire books, Respectfully, your understanding is different than Bills, or BP's, or anyone else I have ever encountered in 45 years of registered Scouting. That some go too far is no good reason for everyone to do too little. Scouting is expressly an educational movement.

"Train 'em." Bill Hillcourt. "advise" Bill Hillcourt (re Scoutmaster) "train and guide boy leaders. Appoint Scout leaders with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster The Scoutmaster and other adults with the Troop act as non-voting advisors and resources for the Scout leaders in their program planning Meet regularly with the patrol leaders’ council for training and coordination in planning troop activities. I think all this adds up to the adults working indirectly - influencing what happens by the training, guidance, encouragement, and counsel they give to the leaders.

I was taught that Scouts didn't accept charity. Obviously, as least as to B.S.A., that has changed. If a Scout actually earns money and benefits from his labor, I find it hard to see that as "selfish" or "greed."

The point is that, in many police organizations, one is "on call" 24/7. I know you like your culture. I do not feel entitled to judge your culture as you feel free to judge ours. Those who fought off the government of the UK and formed this nation wanted something different. For example, our founders held that being stopped and having to explain oneself to an agent of the state without probable cause was against fundamental law. That right is recognized, although not created, by the 4th Amendment to our Constitution. The Second Amendment, of course, recognizes the fundamental right of the people to keep and bear weapons. As we regard these rights as common to all mankind, we feel you also have those rights. As for "madness," in late 1940, my Mom's dad, like many thousands of other Americans, donated a weapon - a .30 cal.Springfield rifle in his case - to the UK to help overcome the lack of weapons to deal with Germany. When the war was over, almost all of these donated weapons were dumped in the ocean. Knowing that, Grandpa said he would have done it again under that same circumstances. And he still had a military rifle to give, the Model 1917 he carried in combat in France. With respect, Churchill was wrong. More than a "common language" divides us.

The definition of Adult Association for official; training is as follows: Having published those words, B.S.A..does little to explain the Patrol Method, to encourage use of the Patrol Method, or to discourage the "troop method." Again, if the Patrol method were important to B.S.A., what might it do to restore it in reality to its theoretical centrality to Scouting?

This issue has been considered before. The answer has usually been that a patrol is a small group of friends. That answer is not inconsistent with are group crossing over from Webelos. B.S.A.: “Scouting offers what boys want: outdoor adventures, being with their friends….†“they self-select and they are friends….†“Scouts should be encouraged to invite their friends to join the troop and become a member of their patrol.†AND: “ ‘You set up a structure—six to eight Scouts—and let them figure it out,’ he says. ‘Boys are going to want to stick together if you can use their friendships to put together a team.’ .†B.S.A., Scouting (May-June 2012) “In a Troop in which the boys are shuffled together at frequent intervals and dealt out into new Patrols according to the whim of the Scoutmaster, there obviously can be little opportunity for the development of Patrol morale and Patrol traditions.†“Green Bar Bill†Hillcourt. “Again, although the Scoutmaster may often advise with the Patrol leader and his Patrol concerning new recruits, the admission of anew boy to the Patrol should be with the approval of the Patrol members.†“Green Bar Bill†Hillcourt. “Patrol spirit is the glue that holds the patrol together and keeps it going. Building patrol spirit takes time, because it is shaped by a patrol's experiences—good and bad.†BSA 2015

The relatively big troops in this are have exciting program that is planned by the Scouts.

No notice in posts in "subscribed" threads since the first of the last two outages.

The message from B.S.A. is confused because many in top slots don't know much about Scouting (as opposed to B.S.A.) and/or aren't very skilled. They have "mislaid" the Patrol Method. They are too busy with other issues to spend a lot of time of the quality of the "product."

You are describing Scouting in N.E. Ohio for the four years before B.S.A. arrived, finding ninety-nine troops --- and in Orange County, California in the twelve years before B.S.A. arrived. So does this Council have training? If so, no big deal.

Me. But after so many years, the "replacements" are at hand: one set for three seasons and another for snow.

The SPL is the top leader in the troop. The PL is the top leader in the patrol. The patrol is supposed to be the primary setting for the Scout to experience Scouting, not the troop. That's why it's called "the Patrol Method" and not "the Troop method." B.S.A., Orientation for New Boy Scout Parents (2016) B.S.A., website (2016) B.S.A., website 2014. B.S.A., website (2016) B.S.A., podcast (2014) B.S.A., website (2016) B.S.A., website (2016) B.S.A., website (citing Baden-Powell)(September, 2015)

In the U.S. and the UK, a tent to be called "waterproof" has to have 1000mm water resistance (1000 mm hydrostatic head). Trouble is, some tents are sold as "waterproof" which have only that - 1000mm. Very little wear of the coating is needed before water starts coming through. The tent I just bought is rated over 3000mm. A factor to consider in selecting. The Terra Nova Trisar is rated at 4000mm for the fly and 6000 for the floor. MSRP is 190 GBP. Rated as 2-man/3-4 season/3.7 KG.

My son has been an LEO for three agencies - one local, one state, and one federal. He has always been required to carry whenever outside his residence. That would be "required." My impression is that such requirements are routine, thank God.

BSA handles technology about as well as communications generally. In the last couple of years we got the rule that Council cannot "share" volunteer contact data with volunteer committees due to a new "privacy" rule. So we have to work separately to create unofficial contact lists to staff and promote events. We keep trying but: Sigh!

HOW A SCOUTER QUALIFIES There are three parts to Wood Badge training: correspondence, practical, and application. CORRESPONDENCE The correspondence part consists of a series of questions and projects that require written reports from the candidates. A counselor determines from the candidate's written work if his knowledge of Scouting, desire to serve, and willingness to follow the principles of Scouting qualify him to be allowed to receive the Wood Badge. The Correspondence part may be completed before or after the Practical part. PRACTICAL The practical is an 8-day training experience, consisting of living Scouting. APPLICATION PERIOD In a period of at least six months after the practical phase and no more than three years after commencing the three parts, the Scouter must demonstrate acceptable service in his current Scouting responsibility and "give evidence of the use of his Wood badge training. The council leadership training committee approves the candidate's application phase upon recommendation of the respective unit's commissioner or, if the candidate's job is not connected, upon recommendation of the council Scout Executive. Source: Boy Scouts of America, Wood Badge, Training Plan and Procedures, 1957.

Make it a game. Pick a topic, and we can do it right here.

Have Council make a hard copy of your record for you to keep. Records disappear or get messed up. My oldest council has records showing I completed SM training in 1910 (which would make me at least 126) and was a District Chairman in 1932-1934 (before I was alive or that district existed) . Everything they have on me before 2004 is inaccurate. It's down to, "Tell us what we should put in your file."

It's the "Patrol Method." It is not the" Boy-Led Troop Method." Boy leadership is one aspect of the Patrol Method. Boys primarily experiencing Scouting in a patrol setting is the biggest aspect of the Patrol Method. It's harder to start in the middle. How about starting where BP and Bill started, with patrols? (If you think it might help, tell them they are in teams and the PL is the team captain. Does the Little League Coach pitch in a game if his pitchers get wild?) If you have strong patrols, its easy to have decent troop-level goings on. If you have weak patrols, the SPL's job is really tough. (An SPL in such a situation, unless strongly mentored and coached, will try to become a super PL and lead the patrols instead of working through the PLs. Just as adults commonly directly lead in this declining age.) If you have no time for patrols functioning separately, you have no time for Boy Scouting. Not that the result may be OK in some ways, it just is not Boy Scouting. (Who says that [without enforcing it]? The B.S.A.)

You situation suggests a real leader filling the Council Executive position. I know a few of those are around, but mostly not. We have a nice man at the top who arrived to hold his terminal position and has been pretty much retired-in-place since. Our new super district started out with five employees, none of whom was remotely professional and all of whom were fired or quit in seven months. The five positions have not all been filled in the four years since. Average tenure is just under six months. Somewhere in there we had one actual professional. He was impressive. However, he got discouraged a quit after eight months. Competent people tend to remove themselves from incompetent organizations.