TAHAWK

The boys should decide what patrol they are in. "they self-select and they are friends" Scouting blog 2015 “In a Troop in which the boys are shuffled together at frequent intervals and dealt out into new Patrols according to the whim of the Scoutmaster, there obviously can be little opportunity for the development of Patrol morale and Patrol traditions.†Bill Hillcourt “Scouts should be encouraged to invite their friends to join the troop and become a member of their patrol.†B.S.A. website, 2016

Even simple things can be hard. People are complicated, so leading them is often complicated. I have seen people get better at leadership.

Not to mention: “To be is to doâ€â€”Socrates. “To do is to beâ€â€”Jean-Paul Sartre. ‘The way to do is to be.’—Leo-tzu "The way to be is to do." —Dale Carnegie,†"Be. Know. Do" - U.S. Army Introduction to Army Leadership "What is to be done?" —Lenin "Do It!" —J. Rubin "Just do it! —Nike

Down late list night to early this AM.

I red the article. I disagree with the author's uninformed conclusions. Open another thread and we can discuss it.

Recognizing that they are not final arbiters, B.S.A. and the U.S. Army, to name two groups, do not agree. They both subscribe to the notion of "Be; Know; Do" as the basis of good leadership. Can sound action can be divorced from values and character?

The National rep at Sunday's Eagle Recognition Dinner said that of every 100 who join a troop, 4 will "earn" Eagle. The percentage of those who stay at least two years would be much larger. That number was 1 of 100 when in 1957. Then, getting Eagle - at least in my troop - was both a bigger deal and less important. Some will understand that situation.

Stosh, I allow as how there is possibly another side to the story. However, when someone comes here and ask us for advice BASED ON FACTS HE OR SHE ALLEGES, we are not a jury passing judgment. We are just giving advice based on the facts alleged. Different facts produce different results. Zuzy, strictly speaking, the SPL does not run the troop. The troop's activities, according to B.S.A., are to be democratically planned by the PLC with the SPL acting as a voting chairman of the planning meeting and the PLs representing their respective patrol's wants and needs. The SPL then acts as the leader of the troop activities thus selected, working through the PLs as much as possible. ("Joe, pssst. Please keep your guys quiet.") In the real world, many troops are improperly adult-run. After telling the PLs to be prepared to suggest program elements, the SPL here can simply inform the SM that he would like to have a PLC meeting on X date, at X time, at X location, copying the Troop Chair to comply with the no one-on-one communication rule.. If the SM sabotages the process, it should be documented. If a PLC meeting results, the SPL leads the PLs in choosing major program themes for the next quarter (or more)(e.g., first aid) and detailed program schedules for the next month''s meetings. The SM is there in a non-voting advisory/resource capacity according to B.S.A., save for safety and values issues. Is the SPL fully trained? If not, contact the district training chair to find out where the SPL can get training - in your district, in your council, or elsewhere. > Useful tactical tool when dealing with "superiors": "Sir, I would like to talk to you about an idea that I would like to try." > Old adage: If you plan on revenge, dig two graves. > Define goals carefully.

"The troop determines the requirements for patrol leaders, such as rank and age.†B.S.A. website (2016)

Ignorantia juris non excusat = Ignorance of the law excuses not.

What am I missing? Adults who will not stick to their roles are a problem regardless of whether a patrol are all new Scouts or not. Adults and "their patrols" sounds like the problem, not NSPs as such. Troop Guides are not supposed to "take over" patrols. They are to be resources, coaches, guides, and examples, not PLsl.

Leave aside that he seems clearly incorrect. It is not the DC's role to rule on advancement requirements. That is for the Advancement Committee.

no two of them looked alike. Exactly. It's a brand of clothing, not a uniform.

That has been my experience with the NSP. My experience is also that, at least at first, the cross-overs want to stay together.

One advantage of replacing a uniform with a brand is the choices available - dozens of combinations.

I think: The B,.S.A. regulates Wood Badge in B.S.A. Scouting. W.O.S.M. says that the W.O.S.M. "framework" "... is neither a training programme nor a single approach proposed to all National Scout Organizations members. It is first of all a framework of references and principles shared within WOSM and which are recommended for adoption. It includes the terms and key themes that need to consider while organizing a “Wood Badge†training system in National Scout Organisations." W.O.S.M. also says: "The national level is responsible for: • Assessment of needs, • Design content and tools, • Development of the offers and structures • The implementation of the “Wood Badge†trainings, • The evaluation of the trainings content, systems, structures, learners and its impact on the quality of Scouting, • Validation of the learning during the training and the handing-over of the “Wood Badge†like signs of recognition of these learning, • Communicate to the World Scout Bureau, the national “Wood Badge†framework as well as any amendment or updating. • The management of the holders’ file of the “Wood Badge†of its organization." In addition, "[e]ach National Scout Organization is responsible of the procedures for awarding the Wood Badge, and the rules for use of these items. The World Scout Bureau proposes to the National Scout Organizations a single model certificate titled: “Leaders Training - Wood Badgeâ€. This unique certificate has the advantage to enhance the sense of belonging to a single Movement." In a foreign country, your beads signify that you have completed the highest level of adult leadership training that is offered by your national Scout organization. To compare:

Something to remember when having to endure.

Since the adults are not supposed to intervene except for safety issues, why is the skill-level of the PL moot? He is supposed to be the primary teacher of those skills.

Patrol positios other than PL are not POR positions according to B.S.A. Here is http://www.bsahandbook.org/site. Notice it is identified as a "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA" site. If you look here http://webstarratings.com/whois-dns/bsahandbook.org/ you will see Domain Name:BSAHANDBOOK.ORG Domain ID: D150608087-LROR Creation Date: 2008-01-10T19:40:22Z Updated Date: 2013-12-09T10:03:12Z Registry Expiry Date: 2016-01-10T19:40:22Z Sponsoring Registrar:MarkMonitor Inc. (R37-LROR) Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 292 WHOIS Server: Referral URL: Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited Registrant ID:mmr-116910 Registrant Name:David Kerley Registrant Organization:Boy Scouts of America Registrant Street: 1325 W. Walnut Hill Lane Registrant City:Irving Registrant State/Province:TX The problem with making up your own rules as you go along is that other people who do that invented the adult-run troop method, not to mention other things you dislike.

Don' know about PORs, but as a patrol is supposed to be a "team," the members of a team usually have a role to play - a position. "The patrol leader learns about the abilities of other patrol members and full involves them in patrol and troop activities by assigning them specific tasks and responsibilities." B.S.A., Patrol Leader's Handbook. "The following leadership positions with a patrol can make the patrol more effective and fun" Assistant Patrol Leader ... Patrol Scribe ... Patrol Quartermaster ... Patrol Grubmaster ... Patrol Cheermaster " Id.

Boy Scouts Boy Scouting, one of the traditional membership divisions of the BSA, is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light rank and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10, or who are 11, but not yet 18 years old. The program achieves the BSA's objectives of developing character, citizenship, and personal fitness. http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts.aspx Boy Scouting is for boys 11 to 17 years of age. Boys also may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old. http://www.scouting.org/FAQ/Parent.aspx .Boy Scouting The Boy Scout program is for boys who are 11 years old, are at least ten years old and have finished the fifth grade, or are at least ten years old and have earned the Arrow of Light rank as a Cub Scout http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/CubScouts/BeingACubScout/scouting.aspx

"WIlderness Survival" Skills being taught. Prioritizing needs to survive a crisis Materials needed. > wilderness survival scenario - copy for each patrol >large selection of items - most useful for scenario but some not useful for given scenario (e.g., pot; compass; first aid kit; knife; rope; matches; flashlight) Duplicates, especially for best items suggested >score sheets for competition >token of victory for winning patrol (whittle out and paint a large wooden match or compass with loop of string for attachment to patrol flag) > each patrol's flag costs involved As near ro $0 as matters. Amount of time to set up, practice or train. Presenter needs to practice his "Needs for Survival" presentation. Knowledgeable person gives score of 0-10 pts for value of each item given the scenario Takes ten minutes to set up table for competition Takes ten minutes to score Takes ten minutes to present results as discussion of best choices Number of people involved One presenter; one scorer for each patrol to note items selected in competition phase; scorer to determine points earned; person to give value to survival gear items. Implementation 10: Presenter gives ten minute talk on "Needs for Survival" 1). Think straight; 2) 98.6; 3) water; 4) signaling; 5) safe movement; 6) first aid; 7) avoiding nature's perils; 8) sleep/rest; 9) food. 15: Patrols meet (separately, of course) for fifteen minutes to discuss what stuff would be useful to deal with survival scenario they are each given in writing. 5: Patrols are placed equidistant from table with survival items. They cannot see items. 10: At "GO" a member of patrol runs to table and selects best item for scenario and runs back to patrol to tag next patrol member who repeats. (Each patrol gets same number of trips.) For small patrols, each person can go twice with each patrol getting same number of trips. Scorer for that patrol keeps track of trips. When each patrol has finished, time is called and scores calculated. 10: Patrol meetings while score is calculated. 10: Results presented as an interactive discussion Award presented to patrol at closing formation.

Whose problem is it? What is the problem? “The members of each patrol elect one of their own to serve as patrol leader. The troop determines the requirements for patrol leaders, such as rank and age.†“All members of a troop vote by secret ballot to choose their Senior Patrol Leader. Rank and age requirements to be a Senior Patrol Leader are determined by each troop, as is the schedule of elections.†I see nothing about how long the elected leader serves or that he cannot be replaced for misfeasance or malfeasance. "Requirements" may include performance. I do see that it is the SM's job to train the leaders. Whose problem is it? What is the problem?

If the statements appear today on B.S.A.'s Internet sites, they are current statements. "So using that requirement we have 3 different starting points: A) 11 years of age B) completed 5th grade C) Earned AOL and is 10 years old." "When a Cub Scout earns the Arrow of Light, may he immediately join a Boy Scout troop? Boy Scouting is available to boys who have earned the Arrow of Light and are at least ten years old—so a Webelos Scout who has earned the Arrow of Light is eligible to join a troop immediately (provided he is at least ten years old)." "Boy Scouting is for boys 11 to 17 years of age. Boys also may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old." B.S.A. February 9, 2016.